Royals *** Official Kansas City Royals @ Cleveland Indians Game Thread (7/29) *** - Page 17

Hootie · 07-29-2015, 09:27 AM

11:10 CST

KC:Jeremy Guthrie(R) (7-6, 5.35)
CLE:Corey Kluber(R) (5-11, 3.59)

LINE: CLE -170 O/U: 7.5

Alcides Escobar(R) SS
Mike Moustakas(L) 3B
Kendrys Morales(S) DH
Eric Hosmer(L) 1B
Alex Rios(R) RF
Omar Infante(R) 2B
Paulo Orlando(R) LF
Drew Butera(R) C
Jarrod Dyson(L) CF

Jason Kipnis(L) 2B
Francisco Lindor(S) SS
Michael Brantley(L) DH
Carlos Santana(S) 1B
Brandon Moss(L) RF
Yan Gomes(R) C
Giovanny Urshela(R) 3B
Michael Bourn(L) CF
Tyler Holt(R) LF

(Could be a long day...)

WilliamTheIrish · 07-29-2015, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoMoChief

A guthrie enthusiast

I now understand why KU fans have given up trying to explain the nuances of college basketball to you.
Same with baseball.

Chiefspants · 07-29-2015, 05:57 PM

The Roayls shoud trade for Pryce or Sherdzer and then we wouldnt have a number five!!!11!11

tk13 · 07-29-2015, 06:07 PM

I think Ned has been trying to buy innings from our starters from the beginning of the season. He wants the bullpen fresh for the playoffs.

In the real world, that's how most real baseball teams work. They want innings from their starters. 1000 IP, as they say. That was the biggest change in this franchise becoming successful. We went from having an awful rotation led by Bruce Chen, to a legit staff. Instead of praying the starter could get you 4 or 5, we had guys like Guthrie on Vargas who would give you 5 IP almost every time, and many nights 6 or 7 innings.

**New World Order** · 07-29-2015, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmo20002

Yep, Yosted.
Seriously, he should be pulled after the 5th no matter what, period, end of story. With the bullpen, most guys don't go past 6 anyway on this team.

That's ridiculous. Many in this thread, (I am not saying you), like Guthrie because he can go deep into games.

That's pretty much the only positive to this guy when comparing him vs Young.

tk13 · 07-29-2015, 06:16 PM

I'll explain why the math doesn't work out. You often see the argument that we should take Guthrie and Vargas out after 5 innings every game. Ventura hasn't been great at pitching deep, and that has never been Duffy's strength.

You get 5 innings out of your starters every night, that leaves 4 IP a night the bullpen has to pitch most nights. We have a great bullpen, no doubt. And this is assuming you never have an extra inning game. Your bullpen now has to pitch almost 650 IP in a season. We are lucky that we carry 8 bullpen pitchers. That only means every one of those guys has to average 81 IP in a season. Last year, Wade Davis led the team with 72 IP. The year before, Hoch led with 70 IP. And this doesn't include any extra inning games, or any postseason games. Now every pitcher in your bullpen has to pitch more than that, and guys like Davis and Herrera would probably end up with 90-100 IP. Maybe you'd argue that more teams should approach their bullpen that way, but there's certainly risk there too. Somebody gets hurt and you're going to put a lot of stress on the pen.

**New World Order** · 07-29-2015, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saul Good

Young managed to pitch 5 whole innings yesterday before getting pulled. Guthrie gave up 2 runs over the first 5 innings. Had Yost pulled Guthrie after 5, their starts would have looked nearly identical.

His pitch count was fine, meanwhile Young had thrown almost 100 pitches. You can't pull a guy when hes pitching well and his pitch count is fine.

**Saul Good** · 07-29-2015, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk13

I think Ned has been trying to buy innings from our starters from the beginning of the season. He wants the bullpen fresh for the playoffs.

In the real world, that's how most real baseball teams work. They want innings from their starters. 1000 IP, as they say. That was the biggest change in this franchise becoming successful. We went from having an awful rotation led by Bruce Chen, to a legit staff. Instead of praying the starter could get you 4 or 5, we had guys like Guthrie on Vargas who would give you 5 IP almost every time, and many nights 6 or 7 innings.

Exactly. Royals fans need to start thinking backwards. We have to manage the rest of the regular season with the playoffs in mind. There are only 5 teams in the AL with winning records. We are in the postseason. That's an absolute given at this point. It would take an absolute catastrophe for us to be in the play-in game...major injuries. If that happens, we aren't going to be good enough to do damage in the postseason anyway.

**Saul Good** · 07-29-2015, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by New World Order

His pitch count was fine, meanwhile Young had thrown almost 100 pitches. You can't pull a guy when hes pitching well and his pitch count is fine.

So Guthrie pitched better and more efficiently for five innings than Young...and somehow that means that Young was better? You understand why that doesn't make sense, right?

tk13 · 07-29-2015, 06:21 PM

I wouldn't go far to say we're in. I like our odds but there have been plenty of big collapses, even in recent history. But he's obviously worked hard not to overextend HDH, protected Hoch from pitching consecutive days, etc.

**Saul Good** · 07-29-2015, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk13

I wouldn't go far to say we're in. I like our odds but there have been plenty of big collapses, even in recent history. But he's obviously worked hard not to overextend HDH, protected Hoch from pitching consecutive days, etc.

There haven't been collapses on this scale...not when 5 teams make the playoffs in each league.

tk13 · 07-29-2015, 06:28 PM

Sounds like the Mets are considering giving up Zack Wheeler for Carlos Gomez. Seems like Mets fans don't like the idea, based on Twitter.

cosmo20002 · 07-29-2015, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saul Good

Right, but that's not Ned's philosophy, which is why so many people think he mismanages the pen. If you look at each game in a vacuum, obviously you play all of your best players, start your ace, clear the pen with your best relievers at the first sign of trouble, etc. In reality, you have to keep players fresh and pick and choose when you go for it. There's a reason jockeys don't go to the whip right out of the gate.

Today's game was a terrible matchup. Barring a collapse by Kluber, we weren't winning. Yost decided to rest two of his most important starters and hope for the best. Once Kluber came out dealing, Ned was content to let Guthrie go as long as he could and rest the bullpen as best he could. Had we scratched across 2 or 3 runs, Guthrie wouldn't have seen the 6th inning. It was pretty obvious that a lineup with Rios, Infante, Butera, and Orlando wasn't going to be able to touch Kluber once it was clear that he was on his game.

Down 2-0 after the 5th, I look at it as we're still in it, I don't care who is pitching on the other side...c'mon...

Prison Bitch · 07-29-2015, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saul Good

If you expect Guthrie to go out and dominate, you are going to be disappointed nearly every time. That's not who he is

tk13 · 07-29-2015, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saul Good

There haven't been collapses on this scale...not when 5 teams make the playoffs in each league.

Oakland was 12.5 games ahead of us on this date last year, and ended up having to come to KC for a one game series, after barely making the playoffs.

Prison Bitch · 07-29-2015, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

Think about the posters who don't like Guthrie - COMO, Prison Bitch, BWillie, Halfcan, kcchiefsus. That should tell you all need to know about the player.

High five bro!

Except, you're a total buffoon. Anybody with a brain can just look up his ERA and find out just how good he is.

07-29-2015, 09:27 AM
Hootie Banned Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas Casino cash: $10004900	* Official Kansas City Royals @ Cleveland Indians Game Thread (7/29) * 11:10 CST KC:Jeremy Guthrie(R) (7-6, 5.35) CLE:Corey Kluber(R) (5-11, 3.59) LINE: CLE -170 O/U: 7.5 Alcides Escobar(R) SS Mike Moustakas(L) 3B Kendrys Morales(S) DH Eric Hosmer(L) 1B Alex Rios(R) RF Omar Infante(R) 2B Paulo Orlando(R) LF Drew Butera(R) C Jarrod Dyson(L) CF Jason Kipnis(L) 2B Francisco Lindor(S) SS Michael Brantley(L) DH Carlos Santana(S) 1B Brandon Moss(L) RF Yan Gomes(R) C Giovanny Urshela(R) 3B Michael Bourn(L) CF Tyler Holt(R) LF (Could be a long day...)
Posts: 56,356

07-29-2015, 05:57 PM	#242
Chiefspants World's Best Boss Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bronco Country Casino cash: $3584654	The Roayls shoud trade for Pryce or Sherdzer and then we wouldnt have a number five!!!11!11
Posts: 19,383

07-29-2015, 06:07 PM	#243
tk13 ... Join Date: Nov 2001 Casino cash: $-1717500	I think Ned has been trying to buy innings from our starters from the beginning of the season. He wants the bullpen fresh for the playoffs. In the real world, that's how most real baseball teams work. They want innings from their starters. 1000 IP, as they say. That was the biggest change in this franchise becoming successful. We went from having an awful rotation led by Bruce Chen, to a legit staff. Instead of praying the starter could get you 4 or 5, we had guys like Guthrie on Vargas who would give you 5 IP almost every time, and many nights 6 or 7 innings.
Posts: 56,624

07-29-2015, 06:16 PM	#245
tk13 ... Join Date: Nov 2001 Casino cash: $-1717500	I'll explain why the math doesn't work out. You often see the argument that we should take Guthrie and Vargas out after 5 innings every game. Ventura hasn't been great at pitching deep, and that has never been Duffy's strength. You get 5 innings out of your starters every night, that leaves 4 IP a night the bullpen has to pitch most nights. We have a great bullpen, no doubt. And this is assuming you never have an extra inning game. Your bullpen now has to pitch almost 650 IP in a season. We are lucky that we carry 8 bullpen pitchers. That only means every one of those guys has to average 81 IP in a season. Last year, Wade Davis led the team with 72 IP. The year before, Hoch led with 70 IP. And this doesn't include any extra inning games, or any postseason games. Now every pitcher in your bullpen has to pitch more than that, and guys like Davis and Herrera would probably end up with 90-100 IP. Maybe you'd argue that more teams should approach their bullpen that way, but there's certainly risk there too. Somebody gets hurt and you're going to put a lot of stress on the pen.
Posts: 56,624

07-29-2015, 06:21 PM	#249
tk13 ... Join Date: Nov 2001 Casino cash: $-1717500	I wouldn't go far to say we're in. I like our odds but there have been plenty of big collapses, even in recent history. But he's obviously worked hard not to overextend HDH, protected Hoch from pitching consecutive days, etc.
Posts: 56,624

07-29-2015, 06:28 PM	#251
tk13 ... Join Date: Nov 2001 Casino cash: $-1717500	Sounds like the Mets are considering giving up Zack Wheeler for Carlos Gomez. Seems like Mets fans don't like the idea, based on Twitter.
Posts: 56,624