Owners of Toyota Cars in Rebellion Over Accidents Caused by Sudden acceleration.

[HemiEd]

Owners of Toyota Cars in Rebellion Over Series of Accidents Caused by Sudden Acceleration


Anyone else been following this story? They had a pretty graphic show on nightline about it last night.


http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Runawa...ory?id=8980479

Refusing to accept the explanation of Toyota and the federal government, hundreds of Toyota owners are in rebellion after a series of accidents caused by what they call "runaway cars."


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Department of Transportation: underlying defect causes accelerators to stick.

More PhotosSafety analysts found an estimated 2000 cases in which owners of Toyota cars including Camry, Prius and Lexus, reported that their cars surged without warning up to speeds of 100 miles per hour.

CLICK HERE FOR MORE OF THE RUNAWAY TOYOTAS STORY.

Toyota says the incidents are caused by floor mats becoming stuck under gas pedals, but owners say that's not what happened to them.

Watch the full report tonight on 'World News with Charles Gibson' and 'Nightline'.

"I'm absolutely certain that in my situation, it was not the floor mats," Elizabeth James told ABC News. She was driving her Toyota Prius outside Denver, CO when she says it suddenly shot up to 90 miles an hour, even though her foot was on the brake and not the gas pedal.

"I kept going faster and faster," James said. "And all of a sudden… my foot was pressing on the brake super, super hard and I wasn't slowing down."

James and some other Toyota owners suspect the accidents have been caused by some kind of glitch in the electronic computer system used in Toyotas that controls the throttle.

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2...at-recall.html

[JD10367]

Originally Posted by asdf

Recall spreads to Europe and China.... interesting that the cars made in Japan don't have the defective pedal assembly.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100128/...yota_recall_32

And that's another thing. I don't have to worry about rapid acceleration being an issue in a Smart.

(Seriously, though, for a 3-cylinder 1-liter engine the car does wind up pretty quickly. Maybe "wind up" is a poor choice of words given the size, LOL. But if I need a little "oomph" I take it out of auto and use the paddle shifters to control the gears and it gets up to speed well enough...)

[jjjayb]

Originally Posted by JD10367

And that's another thing. I don't have to worry about rapid acceleration being an issue in a Smart.

Maybe "wind up" is a poor choice of words given the size, LOL.

What kind of mileage are you getting?

[HC_Chief]

Originally Posted by jjjayb

What kind of mileage are you getting?

The mileage they get is unimpressive to me. As small as that car is I would expect something in the 60s or 70s, not the 40s.

[HemiEd]

Originally Posted by asdf

Recall spreads to Europe and China.... interesting that the cars made in Japan don't have the defective pedal assembly.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100128/...yota_recall_32

According to that article, the difference is a CTS manufactured pedal assembly, that they don't use in Japan.
Here is a current article regarding CTS.
http://www.dispatch.com/live/content...a.html?sid=101

TOYOTA PARTS SUPPLIER
Honda among automakers using CTS Corp. parts
No problems reported in Honda vehicles

Thursday, January 28, 2010 10:29 AM
By Dan Gearino
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

Honda is among the automakers using parts made by the company behind Toyota's defective accelerators, though the Honda has not had similar problems with its vehicles.

The parts, made by CTS Corp. of Elkhart, Ind., are custom made for each automaker, so Honda's parts are not the same as Toyota's and do not appear to have the same defects, said Honda spokesman Ron Lietzke.

"We don't have any issue" with CTS parts, he said.

He confirmed that CTS is a Honda parts supplier, but he could not immediately say whether CTS makes any of Honda's accelerators.

Toyota has halted sales and production of eight models because of reports that the accelerators are sticking.

CTS issued a statement yesterday about the situation.

"Toyota is a small, but important, customer of CTS, representing approximately 3 percent of our annual sales," the statement said. "CTS has been actively working with Toyota for awhile to develop a new pedal to meet tougher specifications from Toyota. The newly designed pedal is now tested and parts are beginning to ship to some Toyota factories."

Lietzke stressed that an accelerator is not an "off-the-shelf" part, meaning that each automaker has specific requirements for the part's design.

Ford and Nissan are among the other automakers that use CTS parts, according to media reports this morning.

[JD10367]

Originally Posted by jjjayb

What kind of mileage are you getting?

Averages around 40MPG. But there's nothing special about the car. It's not a hybrid, diesel, or anything else. Just a simple small gas engine. It just gets a lot better mileage 'cause you're only pushing half a car around.

It really is a blast to drive, especially in the city. I can park anywhere (even pulling straight-on to a curb and not sticking out into traffic). I can do a U-turn on a one-way street. And it does move along on the highway; I have no trouble winding it up to 70, 75, and the car actually seems to enjoy it (the car hates going 50, but at 70-75 it purrs).

It does have drawbacks. It moves around in the wind, and every bump feels like a pothole. It's definitely a "niche" car. But it certainly makes you smile to drive it, and the reaction from people who see it is usually 90% favorable. There's always some jerkwad in a pickup or SUV who feels insulted if I pass them, though, and feel the need to speed up and re-pass me, LOL.

[HemiEd]

Originally Posted by ChiefPote

So when does Toyota get their "bailout"?

They have already had, more than one.

[JD10367]

Originally Posted by HC_Chief

The mileage they get is unimpressive to me. As small as that car is I would expect something in the 60s or 70s, not the 40s.

Diesel would do better but for some reason they only have them in Europe. I don't think they could meet the U.S. Emissions specs or something.

It's also a "green" car. The thing is like 90% recyclable or something, and the plant they're made in has a very ecological "footprint".

And because they're made in France, they go VERY well in reverse.

[Radar Chief]

Originally Posted by HemiEd

According to that article, the difference is a CTS manufactured pedal assembly, that they don't use in Japan.
Here is a current article regarding CTS.
http://www.dispatch.com/live/content...a.html?sid=101

TOYOTA PARTS SUPPLIER
Honda among automakers using CTS Corp. parts
No problems reported in Honda vehicles

Thursday, January 28, 2010 10:29 AM
By Dan Gearino
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

Honda is among the automakers using parts made by the company behind Toyota's defective accelerators, though the Honda has not had similar problems with its vehicles.

The parts, made by CTS Corp. of Elkhart, Ind., are custom made for each automaker, so Honda's parts are not the same as Toyota's and do not appear to have the same defects, said Honda spokesman Ron Lietzke.

"We don't have any issue" with CTS parts, he said.

He confirmed that CTS is a Honda parts supplier, but he could not immediately say whether CTS makes any of Honda's accelerators.

Toyota has halted sales and production of eight models because of reports that the accelerators are sticking.

CTS issued a statement yesterday about the situation.

"Toyota is a small, but important, customer of CTS, representing approximately 3 percent of our annual sales," the statement said. "CTS has been actively working with Toyota for awhile to develop a new pedal to meet tougher specifications from Toyota. The newly designed pedal is now tested and parts are beginning to ship to some Toyota factories."

Lietzke stressed that an accelerator is not an "off-the-shelf" part, meaning that each automaker has specific requirements for the part's design.

Ford and Nissan are among the other automakers that use CTS parts, according to media reports this morning.

Interesting. The company I work for has been using CTS potentiometers in our products for several years without a single issue.

[Radar Chief]

Originally Posted by JD10367

Diesel would do better but for some reason they only have them in Europe. I don't think they could meet the U.S. Emissions specs or something.

It's also a "green" car. The thing is like 90% recyclable or something, and the plant they're made in has a very ecological "footprint".

And because they're made in France, they go VERY well in reverse.

No, their little Turbo Diesel could most likely meet our emissions standards, its that Americans just aren’t as turned onto Diesels as Europeans. There just isn’t much of a market for them here.
Personally I think Americans are missing out. The modern crop of turbo Diesels make phenomenal torque, which is what most people perceive as power, and can almost double a gas motors fuel mileage in the process.

[JD10367]

Originally Posted by Radar Chief

Personally I think Americans are missing out. The modern crop of turbo Diesels make phenomenal torque, which is what most people perceive as power, and can almost double a gas motors fuel mileage in the process.

My dad had a POS used Chrysler sedan, don't remember the make but it was unremarkable to look at. But it was a turbo. Holy shit, did that car accelerate. First time I drove it I was sitting waiting to pull out onto a busy road, and when I saw an opening I stepped on the gas like I would in my regular car, and the frigging thing squealed out like a dragster and shot across the road, LOL...

[Bugeater]

Originally Posted by HemiEd

According to that article, the difference is a CTS manufactured pedal assembly, that they don't use in Japan.
Here is a current article regarding CTS.
http://www.dispatch.com/live/content...a.html?sid=101

TOYOTA PARTS SUPPLIER
Honda among automakers using CTS Corp. parts
No problems reported in Honda vehicles

Thursday, January 28, 2010 10:29 AM
By Dan Gearino
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

Honda is among the automakers using parts made by the company behind Toyota's defective accelerators, though the Honda has not had similar problems with its vehicles.

The parts, made by CTS Corp. of Elkhart, Ind., are custom made for each automaker, so Honda's parts are not the same as Toyota's and do not appear to have the same defects, said Honda spokesman Ron Lietzke.

"We don't have any issue" with CTS parts, he said.

He confirmed that CTS is a Honda parts supplier, but he could not immediately say whether CTS makes any of Honda's accelerators.

Toyota has halted sales and production of eight models because of reports that the accelerators are sticking.

CTS issued a statement yesterday about the situation.

"Toyota is a small, but important, customer of CTS, representing approximately 3 percent of our annual sales," the statement said. "CTS has been actively working with Toyota for awhile to develop a new pedal to meet tougher specifications from Toyota. The newly designed pedal is now tested and parts are beginning to ship to some Toyota factories."

Lietzke stressed that an accelerator is not an "off-the-shelf" part, meaning that each automaker has specific requirements for the part's design.

Ford and Nissan are among the other automakers that use CTS parts, according to media reports this morning.

I'm just not buying the whole pedal design nonsense. I wish that guy who had it happen to him would pop back in, I'm curious to know if he knows whether or not the pedal actually was physically stuck to the floor. I have to think that if it's really a design issue the pedals would be getting stuck at various different engine speeds, the fact that all these cases seem to involve WOT just screams out that it's an electronics issue. I mean really, how often do people floor the accelerator pedal to begin with anyway?

[jjjayb]

Originally Posted by JD10367

Averages around 40MPG. But there's nothing special about the car. It's not a hybrid, diesel, or anything else. Just a simple small gas engine. It just gets a lot better mileage 'cause you're only pushing half a car around.

It really is a blast to drive, especially in the city. I can park anywhere (even pulling straight-on to a curb and not sticking out into traffic). I can do a U-turn on a one-way street. And it does move along on the highway; I have no trouble winding it up to 70, 75, and the car actually seems to enjoy it (the car hates going 50, but at 70-75 it purrs).

It does have drawbacks. It moves around in the wind, and every bump feels like a pothole. It's definitely a "niche" car. But it certainly makes you smile to drive it, and the reaction from people who see it is usually 90% favorable. There's always some jerkwad in a pickup or SUV who feels insulted if I pass them, though, and feel the need to speed up and re-pass me, LOL.

It's a motorcycle with doors then.

[Pants]

Originally Posted by jjjayb

It's a motorcycle with doors then.

I heard they have the worst transmission and suspension ever. Never driven one, so can't really attest.

[HemiEd]

Originally Posted by Bugeater

I'm just not buying the whole pedal design nonsense. I wish that guy who had it happen to him would pop back in, I'm curious to know if he knows whether or not the pedal actually was physically stuck to the floor. I have to think that if it's really a design issue the pedals would be getting stuck at various different engine speeds, the fact that all these cases seem to involve WOT just screams out that it's an electronics issue. I mean really, how often do people floor the accelerator pedal to begin with anyway?

Bug, the more I read, I think the media (since they don't know jack shit about mechanics or electronics) are now over simplifying the throttle assembly, by calling it a gas pedal. (of course Toyota confused things with their floor mat bull shit.)
The way I see it, at this point, since it is drive by wire, it is probably all inclusive of the electronic throttle, sensors, and servo system on the engine.

It could be the design, faulty manufacturing, or failures of sourced parts for the assembly such as transistors, ICs, diodes or any number of other parts.

But what really pisses me off and makes me convinced it is a cover up, they have had numerous crashed cars to analyze. The later model cars also have black boxes that are event recorders.

So as far as I am concerned, Toyota is at fault.

[JD10367]

Originally Posted by jjjayb

It's a motorcycle with doors then.

Pretty much. And you don't get wet in the rain, and can carry a couple of bags of groceries. Actually, though, a lot of motorcycles have a lot more HP.

Originally Posted by Metrolike

I heard they have the worst transmission and suspension ever. Never driven one, so can't really attest.

The suspension is pretty sucky but apparently it's got less to do with quality and more to do with the ridiculously short wheelbase. It doesn't help that in America we don't take care of our roads as well as in Europe. I've just learned to dodge the potholes.

The transmission is okay. The problem is that it's a manual transmission with computer-controlled clutching. The first reviewer wrote about the "awful automatic transmission" and all of them then said the same thing, but the point is that it's NOT an "automatic" at all. So you can feel the car shift, because you can feel it let up on the gas, clutch, shift gears, and get moving again. You can leave it in "D", which is an automatic-shifting mode, or you can slap it into "+/-" and shift gears yourself (the "D" on the dash turns into a "1" through "5"). On the middle- and upper-level models, you get paddle-shifters on the steering wheel, which are cool (although, you can get the same downshifting just by stomping on the gas like an automatic). The '08s (first model in the U.S.) had a more jerky shift than the '09s and '10s; they performed a software flash on all '08s as they came in for service, so they shift a lot smoother than they used to.