Building a PC - Page 2

jspchief · 11-08-2005, 10:53 AM

I'm getting to the point where my current PC just can't do what I want of it anymore. I'm considering trying to build my own rather than buying something out of the box.

Two reasons I want to build my own:
1. Price. Can I get a good gamer PC cheaper if I build it?
2. The experience. I like the idea of building something from scratch like that.

My biggest question is, how difficult is it? Specifically, how much do I need to know about computers? I've done enough internal upgrades on my current PC to believe I'll be fine with the nuts and bolts aspect of the job. But I'm not sure I'll be able to troubleshoot problems.

It's like bolting together an engine, but not knowing how to set the timing or get the right mix in the carb.

Would I be getting in over my head?
Is it any cheaper?
Any good resources (books or websites)?

**dirk digler** · 11-08-2005, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeroSquid

dirk digler- a 6600GT is a high end graphics card? :chortle:

NVidia just released a new mid range card- 6800GS It should be on stores next week and is about as fast as the 6800GT.

You're right, I guess I considered it high end because the retail price is around $200. Video Cards prices are really to high IMO.

Quote:

Enthusiasts have considered the 6800 GT a very good "high-end value" for quite some time. However, with 7800 GT prices falling into the sub-$330 range, the 6800 GT's reign has drawn to an end. To fill the performance gap and compete with the ATI's X800 GTO and still unavailable X1600 XT, NVIDIA has introduced the 6800GS, which is essentially a higher-clocked 6800 with GDDR3 RAM. It is clocked so much higher in fact that its performance rivals that of the 6800 GT, even with fewer pixel pipelines and vertex shaders.

While the performance is spot-on and the card is already available from companies such as eVGA, it is not clear how many OEMs will support the card or how long it will be available before seeing replacement from a GeForce 7 series part.

The GeForce 6800GS is only available for PCI-Express and retails for $229.

Quote:

NVIDIA'S flagship Geforce 7800 GTX card with 512 MB is expected next Monday the 14th of November,and we have some pricing details about how many greenbacks this card will cost. Nvidia has priced this card at high as $649. A new card working at 550MHz core and 1700+ for the memory will certainly be a faster option than X1800XT 512 MB card but will cost you exactly $100 more than the $549, the suggested retail price of the Radeon X1800XT.

We just don’t see the end of this, as we think that $549 is already an insane amount of money to spend for a graphic card. What happened to $399 as a top barrier? Are we so blinded with marchitecture that we didn’t figure out that Nvidia and ATI are ratcheting the prices up every single generation?

AeroSquid · 11-08-2005, 04:53 PM

this is mine nekkid-

the new GTX with 512mb ram is out on the 14th @ $649.00 and i'll be buying one of those too. Being a computer nerd is expensive

**dirk digler** · 11-08-2005, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeroSquid

this is mine nekkid-

the new GTX with 512mb ram is out on the 14th @ $649.00 and i'll be buying one of those too. Being a computer nerd is expensive

You're are actually going to pay $650 bucks for a damn video card?
You're crazy.

KC Jones · 11-09-2005, 07:44 AM

Building a PC yourself can be a very rewarding experience. The technology today has taken most of the really hard work out of it and it's pretty damn easy. I'm not sure if you save all that much money anymore, but the control over exactly what parts go in your machine is the real payoff. You can build a system around what you plan on using it for. You can build a quite machine, or one for screaming fast IO, gaming platform, etc. With quality parts you can stretch the lifespan of the PC, but given how quickly the specs for games increase that may not be much of a payoff. I've been managing to get by with a new PC only every 5 years. Usually half way through that I'll make a small upgrade for the video card and memory.

AeroSquid · 11-09-2005, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler

You're are actually going to pay $650 bucks for a damn video card?
You're crazy.

really? how does buying something i want make me crazy? How much did your house cost? your car? It's not crazy if you want it and can afford it.

**dirk digler** · 11-09-2005, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeroSquid

really? how does buying something i want make me crazy? How much did your house cost? your car? It's not crazy if you want it and can afford it.

Houses and cars are a different standard but I built my PC that is a mid range gaming/multimedia PC for less than that graphics card.

I agree if you want and can afford it go for it.

Personally I think a $650 video card is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy over priced.

**alnorth** · 11-09-2005, 10:40 PM

Whatever you do, for the love of God dont cheap out on the power supply. If the motherboard, graphics card, etc dies, its just a part to replace. If your power supply flakes out on you, it could torch the whole damned thing.

KC Jones · 11-09-2005, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth

Whatever you do, for the love of God dont cheap out on the power supply. If the motherboard, graphics card, etc dies, its just a part to replace. If your power supply flakes out on you, it could torch the whole damned thing.

I'll second this. It's nice to have a quiet power supply too.

jspchief · 11-10-2005, 10:24 AM

It's good to see there are a lot people in here that have done this. I'll probably have to lean on you guys when I get started.

jcl-kcfan2 · 11-10-2005, 07:02 PM

Myself, I just bought a new general purpose PC, just because it was so cheap.

2800 Sempron
256M PC2700 ( I will upgrade)
40 G HD (Will Get SATA drive later, maybe Black Friday)
everything onboard (has a VGA port, will upgrade)
dvd / CDrw
6 in 1 card reader
XP home

$200.00

**dirk digler** · 11-11-2005, 11:58 AM

Jsp here is an interesting article that just come out from PC World.

Can You Still Build a PC for Less?

You can't beat vendors' low-end PC prices, but building your own power desktop might save you some cash.

Tom Mainelli, PC World
Friday, November 11, 2005

Conventional wisdom once stated that building your own PC was more than just a way to create your perfect computer--it was also a lot cheaper than buying a finished system. However, in recent years economies of scale have overturned this truism, making it nearly impossible for the average individual PC builder to beat a big vendor's price when it comes to a basic desktop system.

Don't believe me? Just try building yourself a Pentium-4 based system for less than you'd pay for any basic Dell Dimension PC. See, every day Dell buys a gazillion hard drives, optical drives, motherboards, and so on, so it gets a better unit price for these components than you do for your single purchase. The fact is, without cannibalizing half of your current PC's parts, you can't touch Dell when it comes to building a cheap PC.

That said, I recently stumbled upon the satisfying realization that when it comes to high-end systems, there's still some wiggle room. Apparently this is the market where PC builders--both big and small--like to pad their margins a bit, so you can still save some bucks by doing it yourself.

Super-Powered Shuttle

When Shuttle recently announced its first dual-graphics-board system, I sat up and took notice. I'm a long-time fan of the company's small form factor bare-bones products and its fully finished systems, and with the XPC P 2600, Shuttle promised blazing desktop performance.

I requested and received a fully outfitted (and notably expensive) P 2600 review system to test for our January issue. And I have to say, Shuttle delivered big time. This is one serious, high-performance desktop PC. If speed is your need, this tiny terror will not disappoint.

Using NVidia's NForce 4 chip set and SLI technology, the P 2600's design is mighty impressive: The company fits two full-sized EVGA 7800GTX cards side by side in the 12.6- by 8.3- by 8.7-inch case. Also elegantly stowed inside: a Advanced Micro Devices X2 4800+ CPU, 2GB of memory, two 400GB hard drives, and a DVD burner.

In our tests the P 2600 put all that cutting-edge hardware to good use and notched a WorldBench score of 123, near the top achievers in our Power Desktop category. Predictably, the unit also scored very well in our graphics tests. But despite its high-performance pedigree--and its seven internal fans--the system remains remarkably quiet.

If the P 2600 has any weakness, it's a lack of expandability. There is no room to add parts to this machine: no open PCI or PCI Express slots, no unused bays to add hard drives, and no empty memory sockets. That means, for example, that you'll never be able to upgrade from the integrated audio.

And then there's the spare-no-expense price tag. The shipping system I tested--which included a 17-inch LCD, complete with carrying handle--sells for a whopping $4635.

Now, to be fair, I did ask Shuttle to load this system up with the latest and greatest hardware. And we all know bleeding-edge stuff is expensive. Plus, putting two NVidia 7800 GTX graphics boards in a PC is never going to be cheap.

But $4635? That seems awfully high. I was convinced I could build nearly the same system for less. A lot less, even. So I pointed my browser toward NewEgg.com and got to work.

Saving a Pretty Penny

Shuttle XPC SN26

Shuttle started off engineering and selling bare-bones systems exclusively; it only started selling fully configured desktops a few years ago. I was pretty sure I could find the exact same chassis and motherboard combination as that of the P 2600. I was right: It's the $559 XPC SN26.

From there I just worked my way down the P 2600's components list, most of which are standard-issue.

* One AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800+: $884
* Two 400GB Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 SATA drives: $471
* Two EVGA GeForce 7800 GTX boards: $918
* One Shuttle XP17 monitor: $390
* One copy of Windows XP Pro (OEM version): $149

For those parts I couldn't match precisely, I picked top-quality alternates that weren't always the most expensive, but weren't the cheapest either.

* One Lite-On DVD Burner: $43
* Two sticks of Corsair XMS DDR 400 memory (2GB total): $221
* One Logitech mouse, keyboard, and headset: $110

By the end I'd pretty much re-created the spitting image of Shuttle's $4635 XPC P 2600 system in my shopping cart. Grand total: $3745.

Doing the Math

Now, if I were a math wiz I'd be a famous architect and not a journalist. But I'm pretty sure that's a huge savings. (It's $890, to be precise.) True, the P 2600 comes with some additional software, a system warranty, and a QuickStart guide and disc-based manual. However, I noticed that none of these things were made of solid gold, so I still think the build-it-yourself deal is a better one.

I'm not here to give Shuttle a hard time for the price of its high-end system. The company deserves to make a profit, right?

Okay, maybe I am here to give Shuttle some grief. I mean, just how big a profit margin do you need?

In the end, I suppose the question for anybody who wants a system just like this is simple. Do you want to spend the time and effort to build it yourself and save some cash, or would you rather have it delivered to you ready to go?

I didn't actually build this system, but if I had I can't imagine it would have taken me more than a few hours, including the OS install. My time is valuable, but I'm pretty sure it's not that valuable.

For my money--or lack thereof--I'd build every time.

MavKC · 11-12-2005, 07:03 PM

The way I look at it, if you have at least $600-$700 you can build a system with the same or better specs than you can buy.

If your looking at the $1000-$1500 range to spend on a computer than you shouldn't even think of buying a computer, if your willing to put it together yourself.

I tell people all the time if you just going to the buy the cheapest computer you can get, then I can't build anything cheaper than what Dell, Etc.. can offer you, but if performance is a key factor, then I can compete.

One thing I have noticed with Dell's, HP's and the such, is that you can build a system spec'ed about the same and the built system will tend to be a better performer. Those Dell's are put together with the absolute cheapest parts they can find. So even if the processors and video card are the same, they tend to be held back by the lackluster MoBo's that are put into them.

If you want a pre-built system, AND a good performer, there are plent of "White-Box" vendors in town that can either offer complete systems, or allow you to pick and choose parts for you system, and then let them do all the dirty work. Not to metion they also can offer warranties, software packages and the like.

But I do recommed building the system yourself. Too many people get hung up on the "cost factor", and even if your system will be more expensive, it isn't going to be so high that most people can't afford to cover the little extra cost. Plus the knowledge that you glean from building them is very useful, and understanding how your system works together with an OS is invaluable when doing any troubleshooting. Even if you have to ask for help you can help eliminate a lot of possiblities yourself, so whoever you ask isn't getting vague questions such as..."my computer is acting funny, can you tell me what's wrong?" with absolutely no additional information forthcoming...

Just know it's a LOT easier to build them nowdays. Even just ten years ago, it was completely different is some regards. MoBo manufacturers and other part manufacturers have come a long way in terms of making a system builder life much better...

**Scorp** · 11-18-2005, 02:54 PM

http://www.aberdeeninc.com/abcatg/barebonescomputer.htm

AeroSquid · 11-18-2005, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scorp

http://www.aberdeeninc.com/abcatg/barebonescomputer.htm

Monarch > that place. They have a terrible selection of cpu's.

11-08-2005, 10:53 AM
jspchief BAMF Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Your Face Casino cash: $9998710	Building a PC I'm getting to the point where my current PC just can't do what I want of it anymore. I'm considering trying to build my own rather than buying something out of the box. Two reasons I want to build my own: 1. Price. Can I get a good gamer PC cheaper if I build it? 2. The experience. I like the idea of building something from scratch like that. My biggest question is, how difficult is it? Specifically, how much do I need to know about computers? I've done enough internal upgrades on my current PC to believe I'll be fine with the nuts and bolts aspect of the job. But I'm not sure I'll be able to troubleshoot problems. It's like bolting together an engine, but not knowing how to set the timing or get the right mix in the carb. Would I be getting in over my head? Is it any cheaper? Any good resources (books or websites)?
Posts: 27,207

11-08-2005, 04:53 PM	#17
AeroSquid we are 138 Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: K.C. Casino cash: $9999900	this is mine nekkid- the new GTX with 512mb ram is out on the 14th @ $649.00 and i'll be buying one of those too. Being a computer nerd is expensive Last edited by AeroSquid; 11-18-2005 at 06:31 PM.. Reason: resized pic
Posts: 1,156

11-09-2005, 07:44 AM	#19
KC Jones Genious Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Colorado Casino cash: $10012761	Building a PC yourself can be a very rewarding experience. The technology today has taken most of the really hard work out of it and it's pretty damn easy. I'm not sure if you save all that much money anymore, but the control over exactly what parts go in your machine is the real payoff. You can build a system around what you plan on using it for. You can build a quite machine, or one for screaming fast IO, gaming platform, etc. With quality parts you can stretch the lifespan of the PC, but given how quickly the specs for games increase that may not be much of a payoff. I've been managing to get by with a new PC only every 5 years. Usually half way through that I'll make a small upgrade for the video card and memory.
Posts: 5,366

11-09-2005, 10:40 PM	#22
alnorth . Join Date: Dec 2002 Casino cash: $57156239	Whatever you do, for the love of God dont cheap out on the power supply. If the motherboard, graphics card, etc dies, its just a part to replace. If your power supply flakes out on you, it could torch the whole damned thing. __________________ how many emo kids does it take to change a lightbulb? HOW MANY?! none they just sit in the dark and cry
Posts: 36,130

11-10-2005, 10:24 AM	#24
jspchief BAMF Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Your Face Casino cash: $9998710	It's good to see there are a lot people in here that have done this. I'll probably have to lean on you guys when I get started. __________________ Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all.
Posts: 27,207

11-10-2005, 07:02 PM	#25
jcl-kcfan2 Starter Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: League City (Houston), tx Casino cash: $10004900	Myself, I just bought a new general purpose PC, just because it was so cheap. 2800 Sempron 256M PC2700 ( I will upgrade) 40 G HD (Will Get SATA drive later, maybe Black Friday) everything onboard (has a VGA port, will upgrade) dvd / CDrw 6 in 1 card reader XP home $200.00
Posts: 417

11-11-2005, 11:58 AM	#26
dirk digler Please squeeze Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Clinton, MO Casino cash: $2754644	Jsp here is an interesting article that just come out from PC World. Can You Still Build a PC for Less? You can't beat vendors' low-end PC prices, but building your own power desktop might save you some cash. Tom Mainelli, PC World Friday, November 11, 2005 Conventional wisdom once stated that building your own PC was more than just a way to create your perfect computer--it was also a lot cheaper than buying a finished system. However, in recent years economies of scale have overturned this truism, making it nearly impossible for the average individual PC builder to beat a big vendor's price when it comes to a basic desktop system. Don't believe me? Just try building yourself a Pentium-4 based system for less than you'd pay for any basic Dell Dimension PC. See, every day Dell buys a gazillion hard drives, optical drives, motherboards, and so on, so it gets a better unit price for these components than you do for your single purchase. The fact is, without cannibalizing half of your current PC's parts, you can't touch Dell when it comes to building a cheap PC. That said, I recently stumbled upon the satisfying realization that when it comes to high-end systems, there's still some wiggle room. Apparently this is the market where PC builders--both big and small--like to pad their margins a bit, so you can still save some bucks by doing it yourself. Super-Powered Shuttle When Shuttle recently announced its first dual-graphics-board system, I sat up and took notice. I'm a long-time fan of the company's small form factor bare-bones products and its fully finished systems, and with the XPC P 2600, Shuttle promised blazing desktop performance. I requested and received a fully outfitted (and notably expensive) P 2600 review system to test for our January issue. And I have to say, Shuttle delivered big time. This is one serious, high-performance desktop PC. If speed is your need, this tiny terror will not disappoint. Using NVidia's NForce 4 chip set and SLI technology, the P 2600's design is mighty impressive: The company fits two full-sized EVGA 7800GTX cards side by side in the 12.6- by 8.3- by 8.7-inch case. Also elegantly stowed inside: a Advanced Micro Devices X2 4800+ CPU, 2GB of memory, two 400GB hard drives, and a DVD burner. In our tests the P 2600 put all that cutting-edge hardware to good use and notched a WorldBench score of 123, near the top achievers in our Power Desktop category. Predictably, the unit also scored very well in our graphics tests. But despite its high-performance pedigree--and its seven internal fans--the system remains remarkably quiet. If the P 2600 has any weakness, it's a lack of expandability. There is no room to add parts to this machine: no open PCI or PCI Express slots, no unused bays to add hard drives, and no empty memory sockets. That means, for example, that you'll never be able to upgrade from the integrated audio. And then there's the spare-no-expense price tag. The shipping system I tested--which included a 17-inch LCD, complete with carrying handle--sells for a whopping $4635. Now, to be fair, I did ask Shuttle to load this system up with the latest and greatest hardware. And we all know bleeding-edge stuff is expensive. Plus, putting two NVidia 7800 GTX graphics boards in a PC is never going to be cheap. But $4635? That seems awfully high. I was convinced I could build nearly the same system for less. A lot less, even. So I pointed my browser toward NewEgg.com and got to work. Saving a Pretty Penny Shuttle XPC SN26 Shuttle started off engineering and selling bare-bones systems exclusively; it only started selling fully configured desktops a few years ago. I was pretty sure I could find the exact same chassis and motherboard combination as that of the P 2600. I was right: It's the $559 XPC SN26. From there I just worked my way down the P 2600's components list, most of which are standard-issue. * One AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800+: $884 * Two 400GB Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 SATA drives: $471 * Two EVGA GeForce 7800 GTX boards: $918 * One Shuttle XP17 monitor: $390 * One copy of Windows XP Pro (OEM version): $149 For those parts I couldn't match precisely, I picked top-quality alternates that weren't always the most expensive, but weren't the cheapest either. * One Lite-On DVD Burner: $43 * Two sticks of Corsair XMS DDR 400 memory (2GB total): $221 * One Logitech mouse, keyboard, and headset: $110 By the end I'd pretty much re-created the spitting image of Shuttle's $4635 XPC P 2600 system in my shopping cart. Grand total: $3745. Doing the Math Now, if I were a math wiz I'd be a famous architect and not a journalist. But I'm pretty sure that's a huge savings. (It's $890, to be precise.) True, the P 2600 comes with some additional software, a system warranty, and a QuickStart guide and disc-based manual. However, I noticed that none of these things were made of solid gold, so I still think the build-it-yourself deal is a better one. I'm not here to give Shuttle a hard time for the price of its high-end system. The company deserves to make a profit, right? Okay, maybe I am here to give Shuttle some grief. I mean, just how big a profit margin do you need? In the end, I suppose the question for anybody who wants a system just like this is simple. Do you want to spend the time and effort to build it yourself and save some cash, or would you rather have it delivered to you ready to go? I didn't actually build this system, but if I had I can't imagine it would have taken me more than a few hours, including the OS install. My time is valuable, but I'm pretty sure it's not that valuable. For my money--or lack thereof--I'd build every time.
Posts: 66,438

11-12-2005, 07:03 PM	#27
MavKC Starter Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Independence, MO Casino cash: $8226717	The way I look at it, if you have at least $600-$700 you can build a system with the same or better specs than you can buy. If your looking at the $1000-$1500 range to spend on a computer than you shouldn't even think of buying a computer, if your willing to put it together yourself. I tell people all the time if you just going to the buy the cheapest computer you can get, then I can't build anything cheaper than what Dell, Etc.. can offer you, but if performance is a key factor, then I can compete. One thing I have noticed with Dell's, HP's and the such, is that you can build a system spec'ed about the same and the built system will tend to be a better performer. Those Dell's are put together with the absolute cheapest parts they can find. So even if the processors and video card are the same, they tend to be held back by the lackluster MoBo's that are put into them. If you want a pre-built system, AND a good performer, there are plent of "White-Box" vendors in town that can either offer complete systems, or allow you to pick and choose parts for you system, and then let them do all the dirty work. Not to metion they also can offer warranties, software packages and the like. But I do recommed building the system yourself. Too many people get hung up on the "cost factor", and even if your system will be more expensive, it isn't going to be so high that most people can't afford to cover the little extra cost. Plus the knowledge that you glean from building them is very useful, and understanding how your system works together with an OS is invaluable when doing any troubleshooting. Even if you have to ask for help you can help eliminate a lot of possiblities yourself, so whoever you ask isn't getting vague questions such as..."my computer is acting funny, can you tell me what's wrong?" with absolutely no additional information forthcoming... Just know it's a LOT easier to build them nowdays. Even just ten years ago, it was completely different is some regards. MoBo manufacturers and other part manufacturers have come a long way in terms of making a system builder life much better...
Posts: 107

11-18-2005, 02:54 PM	#28
Scorp Whiskey Tango Foxtrot OVER! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hell Casino cash: $6629000	http://www.aberdeeninc.com/abcatg/barebonescomputer.htm
Posts: 4,507