Chiefs Are We Headed For Vermeil 2.0? - Page 2

**petegz28** · 08-02-2018, 09:00 AM

The way Mahomes can sling the ball shows promise for some high scoring offense. That being said, is the defense going to be able to cut it this season?

One thing that bailed out the defense to a degree the last few seasons was that Smith rarely turned the ball over. Even in a 3 & out situation, MVP usually kicked the ball deep enough to control field position.

Mahomes is neither Green nor Smith. I think he will put up the points Green did but obviously is going to have more turnovers than Smith did. Which is okay. But the defense can't be what it has been.

The defense and Bob Sutton are going to have to learn how to help out when those turnovers happen as they are probably going to happen more than they are used too given the nature of Mahomes. We know there are going to be some great passing plays. We also know that gunslingers will usually throw a few more INT's as well trying to make plays happen. Again, that is okay.

The Sutton defense of "bend but don't break" may have to take a page out of the Denver defense and start really getting after the QB and actually shutting down offenses before they get into FG range, etc.

If our defense is anything like has been during the Sutton era, we could be heading toward Vermeil 2.0 where you're going to have to hope 49 points is enough to win.

**petegz28** · 08-02-2018, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

They gave up 22 points in a playoff game and lost. Gave up 18 to the Steelers at home, lost. 27 on the road in New England. Lost.

I never said the offense was without blame. But the fact is the offense put the defense in great position twice in the playoffs and they choked.

And the Steelers game, yeah 18 points. What was the average ToP for the Steelers that game?

O.city · 08-02-2018, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Why does the D get to enjoy regular season metrics to get the label of 'pretty damn good,' but the O gets the playoff metrics of a 'complete waste of time and talent?'

I'm not sure I've ever brought that up or addressed it that way?

**petegz28** · 08-02-2018, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loochy

No, it's not Vermiel 2.0

They're actually TRYING to address defensive problems

and the overall talent level is much higher

Will the D be great? No. But it won't be Bartee and Warfield back there either.
Posted via Mobile Device

I think Vermeil "tried". I am not saying they are shooting for Vermeil style team either. Just questioning if that is what we are heading for at the moment, regardless of intent by the front office\coahces, etc.?

O.city · 08-02-2018, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

I never said the offense was without blame. But the fact is the offense put the defense in great position twice in the playoffs and they choked.

And the Steelers game, yeah 18 points. What was the average ToP for the Steelers that game?

I don't remember seeing TOP on the scoreboard at the end of the game.

In the end, they held the Steeler offense to field goals and 18 points. You've gotta win that game.

**petegz28** · 08-02-2018, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Actually, it kind of does. Against great teams, unless you have a great defense, it's tough to consistently get stops without turnovers.

Great teams get stops and turnovers. They shut down the run, not hope for a fumble. They shut down the pass, not hope for an overthrown INT.

**petegz28** · 08-02-2018, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

I don't remember seeing TOP on the scoreboard at the end of the game.

In the end, they held the Steeler offense to field goals and 18 points. You've gotta win that game.

Yeah, cause the Steelers putting together long, time-consuming drives had nothing to do with that game.

O.city · 08-02-2018, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

Great teams get stops and turnovers. They shut down the run, not hope for a fumble. They shut down the pass, not hope for an overthrown INT.

The Chiefs haven't just hoped for them though. They've actually gotten them.

**Bowser** · 08-02-2018, 09:19 AM

I'll take 10% less of a Vermeil led offense if we can get 50% more than a Vermeil led defense. That might work.

O.city · 08-02-2018, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

Yeah, cause the Steelers putting together long, time-consuming drives had nothing to do with that game.

Ok, sure?

Once they held them to field goals they got the ball to the offense which shit everywhere.

Simply Red · 08-02-2018, 09:22 AM

we'll be fine.

**petegz28** · 08-02-2018, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Ok, sure?

Once they held them to field goals they got the ball to the offense which shit everywhere.

I'll sum up the defense and Bob Sutton in the Steelers game real easy for you....

Justin Houston (top pass rusher in the league) covering Antonio Brown (top WR in the league) 50+ yards downfield....

Then when the game was absolutely on the line on 3rd down....Justin Houston is yet again covering Antonio Brown instead of rushing the QB

Bob Sutton....

**Baby Lee** · 08-02-2018, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Ok, sure?

Once they held them to field goals they got the ball to the offense which shit everywhere.

They didn't hold them to FGs, stupid playcalling and abysmal execution by Roethlisberger gifted them FGs.

They consistently, almost inexorably, marched untouched from 20 to 20, and stalled on three horrid passes once in easy FG range.

**petegz28** · 08-02-2018, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowser

I'll take 10% less of a Vermeil led offense if we can get 50% more than a Vermeil led defense. That might work.

Probably would. Just think if we forced 1 or 2 punts in the Indy game?

O.city · 08-02-2018, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

I'll sum up the defense and Bob Sutton in the Steelers game real easy for you....

Justin Houston (top pass rusher in the league) covering Antonio Brown (top WR in the league) 50+ yards downfield....

Then when the game was absolutely on the line on 3rd down....Justin Houston is yet again covering Antonio Brown instead of rushing the QB

Bob Sutton....

18 points. That offense, scored 18 points.

If my defense gives up 18 points at home, in a playoff game, I don't care what happens, you should win. That games on Andy and the offense.

**RealSNR** · 08-02-2018, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Why does the D get to enjoy regular season metrics to get the label of 'pretty damn good,' but the O gets the playoff metrics of a 'complete waste of time and talent?'

All defenses eventually suck ass in the playoffs.

Look at the Super Bowl. Look at the Vikings. The mighty Jaguars gave up a ****ton of points to the Steelers.

08-02-2018, 09:00 AM
petegz28 Supporter Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Olathe, Ks Casino cash: $1314127	Are We Headed For Vermeil 2.0? The way Mahomes can sling the ball shows promise for some high scoring offense. That being said, is the defense going to be able to cut it this season? One thing that bailed out the defense to a degree the last few seasons was that Smith rarely turned the ball over. Even in a 3 & out situation, MVP usually kicked the ball deep enough to control field position. Mahomes is neither Green nor Smith. I think he will put up the points Green did but obviously is going to have more turnovers than Smith did. Which is okay. But the defense can't be what it has been. The defense and Bob Sutton are going to have to learn how to help out when those turnovers happen as they are probably going to happen more than they are used too given the nature of Mahomes. We know there are going to be some great passing plays. We also know that gunslingers will usually throw a few more INT's as well trying to make plays happen. Again, that is okay. The Sutton defense of "bend but don't break" may have to take a page out of the Denver defense and start really getting after the QB and actually shutting down offenses before they get into FG range, etc. If our defense is anything like has been during the Sutton era, we could be heading toward Vermeil 2.0 where you're going to have to hope 49 points is enough to win.
Posts: 129,393

08-02-2018, 09:19 AM	#23
Bowser sorta mod-ish Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: KC North Casino cash: $2111616	I'll take 10% less of a Vermeil led offense if we can get 50% more than a Vermeil led defense. That might work.
Posts: 103,170

08-02-2018, 09:22 AM	#25
Simply Red You Sweetie! Join Date: Sep 2005 Casino cash: $2021206219 VARSITY	we'll be fine.
Posts: 71,691