Chiefs Matt Cassell -- My Assessment - Page 2

Amnorix · 02-28-2009, 04:15 PM

I've posted at some length about Cassell before in some no doubt long forgotten threads. Given the latest developments, however, I'll try to repeat my thoughts.

I think Matt Cassell has a better than average opportunity to succeed as a starting QB in the NFL. I think, therefore, he represents a much lower risk than nearly any pick that is taken in the draft.

Cassell's season with the Patriots last year showed much about him. It was really a tale of two seasons -- the early part, when he more or less stunk, and the latter part when he came into his own, the coaches and team played to his strengths and stayed away from his weaknesses, and the game clearly slowed down for him and he became more confident and capable in his position and play.

The GOOD:

1. Cassell CLEARLY has all the physical skills. He is big, tall, strong and tough. He takes a wallop and gets right back up. He has the arm strength to throw all the passes -- the deep out or the deep ball. He is reasonably shifty in the pocket (but note pocket presence/timing below) and has good speed in running out of the pocket. There is no physical limitation in his game.

2. Cassell appears to have good leadership skills. Everything I saw/read about Cassell suggests a mature and intelligent individual to whom the team responded. A veteran team, the Patriots players could have folded their tent on him, but he appeared to get the team to buy into him -- both coaches and other players.

3. He isn't a rookie. You may not appreciate this much, but rookies, whether QBs or any other NFL position players, take a hell of a lot of time to understand what the NFL is all about. It's relatively rare for players to have tremendous impact in their first years for precisely this reason. He not only isn't a rookie, but he has been well coached and has seen the best in the game conduct his business.

4. Patience/coachability. He clearly is very coachable. His tremendous improvement as 2008 went along is evidence of that, as well as all the statements made by the Patriots coaches and other players. He also took a beating early in the season, which was partly his fault and partly the fault of the OLine, but continued to progress and elevate his game.

The BAD:

1. He had no touch on the long ball. None. Whenever he went deep to Moss or anyone else, whether they were open or not, they were completely incapable of hooking up. I imagine that was a timing thing as much as anything, and it may be that having a full training camp/preseason to work on this will help tremendously, but I can't tell you how aggravating it was to see Moss 5 yards behind the entire defense running free and to have the ball overthrown, or whatever. It happened time and time again.

2. Timing/pocket presence. Although it got better as the year went along, Cassell took far too many sacks, held the ball too long, and didn't seem to have a good feel for the pocket. Note that this DID get better as teh year went along, and my main source of comparison was Tom Brady, who has about the best pocket presence since Dan Marino, so I may be a bit unreasonable here.

3. Needs the shotgun. As a result of item 2, above, the Patriots starting putting Cassell into the shotgun. ALOT. A whole lot. That definitely helped him quite a bit in terms of seeing/processing the field of play, making quicker decisions, avoiding sacks, etc., but the shotgun also limits the offensive playcalling a fair bit.

In summary, I think he has a better than average chance to be a high quality NFL starting QB. His ceiling is not yet determined, but I think it is quite high.

Amnorix · 02-28-2009, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claythan

+3 inches
+ an accurate arm
- lousy attitude

He is quite accurate. The result of alot of pass plays during the year was Cassell either throwing sideways, or throwing straight in front of him to someone on a crossing route, whether it was Faulk or Welker in the gap between the LBs and DBs, or a Moss or Welker doing a deeper in cut.

That speaks to his ability to see the entire field. We'll see how that comes along. It seemed to imrpove over the course of the season, but his excellent accuracy in the short/mid range throws was a saving grace.

rad · 02-28-2009, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claythan

+3 inches
+ an accurate arm
- lousy attitude

Tyler Thigpen v.2

DenverChief · 02-28-2009, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

I

3. Needs the shotgun. As a result of item 2, above, the Patriots starting putting Cassell into the shotgun. ALOT. A whole lot. That definitely helped him quite a bit in terms of seeing/processing the field of play, making quicker decisions, avoiding sacks, etc., but the shotgun also limits the offensive playcalling a fair bit.

.

But but but a QB MUST be able to operate out of the "traditional" offense to be successful in the NFL

**Mr. Flopnuts** · 02-28-2009, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenverChief

But but but a QB MUST be able to operate out of the "traditional" offense to be successful in the NFL

I just want you to know that I don't have any hair on my testicles.

Hammock Parties · 02-28-2009, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

He is quite accurate.

This alone makes him a completely different quarterback when compared to Thigpen.

End of discussion.

Amnorix · 02-28-2009, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Flopnuts

Just watch Cassel's highlight reel. You'll see how much more accurate he is. He's a major upgrade over Thigpen. Tyler was ****ing terrible.

To be honest, I should have put accuracy as another strength. He is definitely very accurate in the short and mid range throws.

The long bombs -- ugh.

Deberg_1990 · 02-28-2009, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claythan

He reminds me a lot of Grbac in many ways.

Except his attitude appears to be the exact opposite.

Both 7th rounders. Both big strong armed guys, had all the tools. Lets hope Cassel has a better head.

DenverChief · 02-28-2009, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Flopnuts

I just want you to know that I don't have any hair on my testicles.

Stewie · 02-28-2009, 04:29 PM

Heh. These complaints are every complaint for any QB that doesn't win the SB. You want a breakdown of Elway, Montana, Bradshaw, Aikman, and Marino's deficiencies? There's a laundry list. It's not about, "I see this, I see that." Hell, the coaches are on edge with every playcall and pass with the Johnny Unitases of the world.

PastorMikH · 02-28-2009, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

I can't tell you how aggravating it was to see Moss 5 yards behind the entire defense running free and to have the ball overthrown,

Hey, can Cassell help it if Moss doesn't run fast enough to catch up to the ball???

Deberg_1990 · 02-28-2009, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

To be honest, I should have put accuracy as another strength. He is definitely very accurate in the short and mid range throws.

The long bombs -- ugh.

Which is funny because in that highlight reel the first play was the long bomb to Moss.

I noticed he had a 63% completion percentage. Very good for a first year starter.

**Mr. Flopnuts** · 02-28-2009, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

To be honest, I should have put accuracy as another strength. He is definitely very accurate in the short and mid range throws.

The long bombs -- ugh.

I watched him throw some decent posts. Of course the highlight reel didn't show all the misses and I'm confident you saw about 12 games more than I did last year so I'll defer to you. But the deep throws I did watch him make gave me a 4 hour boner compared to what I saw from Tyler ****ing Thigpen last year. And I'm pretty sure I saw about 15 more games of him than you did.

**Mr. Flopnuts** · 02-28-2009, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenverChief

I figured you could add that to your sig. Circle of life and all.

Amnorix · 02-28-2009, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claythan

This alone makes him a completely different quarterback when compared to Thigpen.

End of discussion.

To be honest, accuracy is perhaps THE most important trait for a modern NFL QB.

Pennington has made an entire career on it and it alone for chrissakes.

Cassell has very good accuracy, and good instincts. Not alot of stupid decisions.

Heck -- good decision-making should have been another strength.

The question isn't whether his decisions are GOOD, ti's whether they are made FAST enough. They had to go to alot of shotgun to help him process the field faster. By later in the season, he was processing his options much faster, but still not fast enough.

Then again, I have Tom frickin' Brady as my baseline, so maybe I just don't have a fair frame of reference.

Just Passin' By · 02-28-2009, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

1. He had no touch on the long ball. None. Whenever he went deep to Moss or anyone else, whether they were open or not, they were completely incapable of hooking up. I imagine that was a timing thing as much as anything, and it may be that having a full training camp/preseason to work on this will help tremendously, but I can't tell you how aggravating it was to see Moss 5 yards behind the entire defense running free and to have the ball overthrown, or whatever. It happened time and time again.

This is not completely accurate or fair. What opposing teams did was double Moss on almost every play and leave the other receivers in one-on-one situations. It's true that Cassel had difficulties getting it to Moss against those double teams, but to say they were incapable of hooking up is just false. From the very first game, where he hit the long pass against the Chiefs, to the game against the Chargers where Moss should have have multiple bombs but failed to make the plays, to the pass that hit Gaffney right in the hands and was dropped against the Colts, Cassel showed he has the ability to make the throw. He definitely needs to get better at it, but he was clearly not 'incapable'.

02-28-2009, 04:15 PM
Amnorix In BB I trust Join Date: May 2003 Location: Boston, Mass. Casino cash: $10029808	Matt Cassell -- My Assessment I've posted at some length about Cassell before in some no doubt long forgotten threads. Given the latest developments, however, I'll try to repeat my thoughts. I think Matt Cassell has a better than average opportunity to succeed as a starting QB in the NFL. I think, therefore, he represents a much lower risk than nearly any pick that is taken in the draft. Cassell's season with the Patriots last year showed much about him. It was really a tale of two seasons -- the early part, when he more or less stunk, and the latter part when he came into his own, the coaches and team played to his strengths and stayed away from his weaknesses, and the game clearly slowed down for him and he became more confident and capable in his position and play. The GOOD: 1. Cassell CLEARLY has all the physical skills. He is big, tall, strong and tough. He takes a wallop and gets right back up. He has the arm strength to throw all the passes -- the deep out or the deep ball. He is reasonably shifty in the pocket (but note pocket presence/timing below) and has good speed in running out of the pocket. There is no physical limitation in his game. 2. Cassell appears to have good leadership skills. Everything I saw/read about Cassell suggests a mature and intelligent individual to whom the team responded. A veteran team, the Patriots players could have folded their tent on him, but he appeared to get the team to buy into him -- both coaches and other players. 3. He isn't a rookie. You may not appreciate this much, but rookies, whether QBs or any other NFL position players, take a hell of a lot of time to understand what the NFL is all about. It's relatively rare for players to have tremendous impact in their first years for precisely this reason. He not only isn't a rookie, but he has been well coached and has seen the best in the game conduct his business. 4. Patience/coachability. He clearly is very coachable. His tremendous improvement as 2008 went along is evidence of that, as well as all the statements made by the Patriots coaches and other players. He also took a beating early in the season, which was partly his fault and partly the fault of the OLine, but continued to progress and elevate his game. The BAD: 1. He had no touch on the long ball. None. Whenever he went deep to Moss or anyone else, whether they were open or not, they were completely incapable of hooking up. I imagine that was a timing thing as much as anything, and it may be that having a full training camp/preseason to work on this will help tremendously, but I can't tell you how aggravating it was to see Moss 5 yards behind the entire defense running free and to have the ball overthrown, or whatever. It happened time and time again. 2. Timing/pocket presence. Although it got better as the year went along, Cassell took far too many sacks, held the ball too long, and didn't seem to have a good feel for the pocket. Note that this DID get better as teh year went along, and my main source of comparison was Tom Brady, who has about the best pocket presence since Dan Marino, so I may be a bit unreasonable here. 3. Needs the shotgun. As a result of item 2, above, the Patriots starting putting Cassell into the shotgun. ALOT. A whole lot. That definitely helped him quite a bit in terms of seeing/processing the field of play, making quicker decisions, avoiding sacks, etc., but the shotgun also limits the offensive playcalling a fair bit. In summary, I think he has a better than average chance to be a high quality NFL starting QB. His ceiling is not yet determined, but I think it is quite high.
Posts: 43,125

02-28-2009, 04:29 PM	#24
Stewie MVP Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: West of the Equator Casino cash: $1659901	Heh. These complaints are every complaint for any QB that doesn't win the SB. You want a breakdown of Elway, Montana, Bradshaw, Aikman, and Marino's deficiencies? There's a laundry list. It's not about, "I see this, I see that." Hell, the coaches are on edge with every playcall and pass with the Johnny Unitases of the world.
Posts: 13,628