Stupid Tax Tricks - Page 2

**AustinChief** · 06-08-2001, 10:00 AM

I just read this article... and it is EXACTLY what I was afraid of...
I think a simple five tier progressive tax with NO exemptions or loopholes is what we need to look at for the future... The Tax Code has become a joke... and G.W. and BOTH parties in the Senate are certainly not helping things...

[url]http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101010611-128937,00.html[/url]

--Kyle
~disgusted

**AustinChief** · 06-08-2001, 12:11 PM

Sorry guys... but I am TOTALLY against a flat tax.... I agree that it is more "fair" in many ways... but it just doesn't generate enough revenue without putting a HUGE burden on the middle and lower classes... Right now we have 5 tiers... I would look at possibly reducing this to three tiers at 15% / 25% / 35%. Get rid of ALL exemptions and also get rid of all the "double" taxes... capital gains, estate tax, luxury tax, etc...

Then more importantly... set a goal for reducing the percentages and still keeping the budget balanced... and force the govt. to make some huge cuts.

--Kyle

Clint in Wichita · 06-08-2001, 12:13 PM

I still say these checks being mailed out are "crumbs" being fed to American people to help soften the blow of future arse-rammings.

With that said, I'll gladly spend mine...I just don't feel that this is a result of Bush's concern for the American people.

Clint in Wichita · 06-08-2001, 12:15 PM

The best way to end up with a fair tax system is this:

Make Congessmen pay taxes just like everyone else. A couple years of that and they'd be so pissed off that we'd get a better system PRONTO.

KCTitus · 06-08-2001, 12:20 PM

Clint, that makes me laugh. Love the spin! Dont even try to be objective about it.

How soon we forget about Clinton's retroactive tax [b]increases[/b]...cost me more than 1000 in additional taxes that year out of pocket because withholdings werent adjusted.

Congress people pay taxes.

KCTitus · 06-08-2001, 12:21 PM

btw...congress has to repeal the federal gas tax.

**AustinChief** · 06-08-2001, 12:23 PM

Oh and just to depress everyone further.... I would RAISE taxes or AT THE VERY LEAST keep them the same until the national debt is paid off... [B]The Government will pay $362 Billion on interest toward the national debt this year!!![/B] I think that is somewhere between 1/4 and 1/5 of our TOTAL expenditures this year.

Politicians cutting taxes seems EXTREMELY irresponsible and short-sited... If we paid off a good portion of the debt (I know that it's always good to have a little national debt) then we could easilt save AT LEAST $300 Billion... I think that could significantly help in lowering EVERYONES taxes.

--Kyle
(Against ANY tax cut until the debt is mostly paid.)

gh4chiefs · 06-08-2001, 12:26 PM

Does anybody have figures available for what our gross national income is? I'm not talking about taxable income, I'm talking about what we all make on a gross basis. I don't know if that figure is available or not, and I'm talking all income, all wages, interest, net sales, capitol gains etc. It would be interesting to see what flat rate it would take given that level of income to produce revenue equal to today's Federal budget.

keg in kc · 06-08-2001, 12:27 PM

No, other Kyle, first we should request that other countries pay us their outstanding, uncollected and largely-forgotten war debts as well as the interest accrued and see how much of our debt is paid off with that. We've footed the bill for too much for too long as far as I'm concerned...

KCTitus · 06-08-2001, 12:29 PM

Kyle, that is depressing. The bill just enacted into law saves 1.3-1.8 Trillion over the next 10 years. During that time, the federal govt will spend almost 30 Trillion dollars.

1 out of 30 or 3 cents for ever federal dollar spent is what the cut represents.

Why should higher taxes pay for the debt, why dont we actually REDUCE the federal budget. This year it's going to 1.8 Trillion and will increase every year by an average of 8%. PATHETIC! The damn budget should be going down not up.

**AustinChief** · 06-08-2001, 12:35 PM

Keg, I agree... but we both know that it will never happen.

It's time that we boned up and took responsibility for all of our parents mistakes and bad budgeting... yeah it sucks... but are WE responsible enough to suffer a little (and I STRESS a little... try living with taxes like they have in Europe ...) and set things right for our later years and future generations?

It makes me sick to think that we will continue to bury our heads in the sand and ignore the future ramifications of being so irresponsible.

One of my favourite politicians has always been Bod Dole... because during the Reagan years of increased spending and decreased taxes (for the wealthy)... Bob Dole voted AGAINST most spending increases AND he voted AGAINST most tax cuts!!!

I would be willing to bet that Mr. Dole's checkbook was ALWAYS in balance!

--Kyle

keg in kc · 06-08-2001, 12:37 PM

Yep, other Kyle. Gotta dream though...

ck_IN · 06-08-2001, 12:54 PM

First of all retiring outstanding debt isn't as easy as making an extra mortgage payment. That debt is held in bonds. Bonds have a call date. The bond can't be retired before the call date. Also a premium is usually needed when a bond is called at the call date. Retiring debt could actually wind up costing more.

Also does anyone actually trust the politicians to use the excess money to retire debt? I certainly don't. Regardless of party, if politicians have access to money they'll spend it. And don't bring up accounting gimicks like 'lock boxes'. Spending caps have been in place for years and have yearly been ignored.

My only problems with the tax cut is that A. It's too small. Double the thing and then we can legitmately call it a tax cut in the finest Reagan tradition. And B. it's backloaded. The IRA limits won't be fully phased in untill 2006. Front load it and get the money out of D.C NOW.

The less money in D.C. the better we all are.

gh4chiefs · 06-08-2001, 12:55 PM

Uh guys,

Surely you're not suggesting we pay higher taxes? PLEASE tell me you're just trying to start a good debate and you really don't believe that.

gh4chiefs · 06-08-2001, 12:56 PM

Thank God for your post ck, some of these post were SERIOUSLY depressing me.

Clint in Wichita · 06-08-2001, 01:00 PM

I like tax cuts, but the govt. should decrease spending with each cut.

Reagan may have cut taxes, but he increased spending dramatically.

06-08-2001, 10:00 AM
AustinChief Administrator Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Austin Casino cash: $2239112	Stupid Tax Tricks I just read this article... and it is EXACTLY what I was afraid of... I think a simple five tier progressive tax with NO exemptions or loopholes is what we need to look at for the future... The Tax Code has become a joke... and G.W. and BOTH parties in the Senate are certainly not helping things... [url]http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101010611-128937,00.html[/url] --Kyle ~disgusted
Posts: 19,601

06-08-2001, 12:11 PM	#16
AustinChief Administrator Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Austin Casino cash: $2239112	Sorry guys... but I am TOTALLY against a flat tax.... I agree that it is more "fair" in many ways... but it just doesn't generate enough revenue without putting a HUGE burden on the middle and lower classes... Right now we have 5 tiers... I would look at possibly reducing this to three tiers at 15% / 25% / 35%. Get rid of ALL exemptions and also get rid of all the "double" taxes... capital gains, estate tax, luxury tax, etc... Then more importantly... set a goal for reducing the percentages and still keeping the budget balanced... and force the govt. to make some huge cuts. --Kyle
Posts: 19,601

06-08-2001, 12:13 PM	#17
Clint in Wichita Veteran Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10004900	I still say these checks being mailed out are "crumbs" being fed to American people to help soften the blow of future arse-rammings. With that said, I'll gladly spend mine...I just don't feel that this is a result of Bush's concern for the American people.
Posts: 4,458

06-08-2001, 12:15 PM	#18
Clint in Wichita Veteran Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10004900	The best way to end up with a fair tax system is this: Make Congessmen pay taxes just like everyone else. A couple years of that and they'd be so pissed off that we'd get a better system PRONTO.
Posts: 4,458

06-08-2001, 12:20 PM	#19
KCTitus Archivist Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: The Ethernet Casino cash: $9892732	Clint, that makes me laugh. Love the spin! Dont even try to be objective about it. How soon we forget about Clinton's retroactive tax [b]increases[/b]...cost me more than 1000 in additional taxes that year out of pocket because withholdings werent adjusted. Congress people pay taxes. __________________ Anything you post on this BB can and will be used against you...
Posts: 26,193

06-08-2001, 12:21 PM	#20
KCTitus Archivist Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: The Ethernet Casino cash: $9892732	btw...congress has to repeal the federal gas tax. __________________ Anything you post on this BB can and will be used against you...
Posts: 26,193

06-08-2001, 12:23 PM	#21
AustinChief Administrator Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Austin Casino cash: $2239112	Oh and just to depress everyone further.... I would RAISE taxes or AT THE VERY LEAST keep them the same until the national debt is paid off... [B]The Government will pay $362 Billion on interest toward the national debt this year!!![/B] I think that is somewhere between 1/4 and 1/5 of our TOTAL expenditures this year. Politicians cutting taxes seems EXTREMELY irresponsible and short-sited... If we paid off a good portion of the debt (I know that it's always good to have a little national debt) then we could easilt save AT LEAST $300 Billion... I think that could significantly help in lowering EVERYONES taxes. --Kyle (Against ANY tax cut until the debt is mostly paid.)
Posts: 19,601

06-08-2001, 12:26 PM	#22
gh4chiefs Regular Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Jefferson City, MO Casino cash: $2093592	Does anybody have figures available for what our gross national income is? I'm not talking about taxable income, I'm talking about what we all make on a gross basis. I don't know if that figure is available or not, and I'm talking all income, all wages, interest, net sales, capitol gains etc. It would be interesting to see what flat rate it would take given that level of income to produce revenue equal to today's Federal budget. __________________ Gary
Posts: 1,486

06-08-2001, 12:27 PM	#23
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	No, other Kyle, first we should request that other countries pay us their outstanding, uncollected and largely-forgotten war debts as well as the interest accrued and see how much of our debt is paid off with that. We've footed the bill for too much for too long as far as I'm concerned...
Posts: 58,682

06-08-2001, 12:29 PM	#24
KCTitus Archivist Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: The Ethernet Casino cash: $9892732	Kyle, that is depressing. The bill just enacted into law saves 1.3-1.8 Trillion over the next 10 years. During that time, the federal govt will spend almost 30 Trillion dollars. 1 out of 30 or 3 cents for ever federal dollar spent is what the cut represents. Why should higher taxes pay for the debt, why dont we actually REDUCE the federal budget. This year it's going to 1.8 Trillion and will increase every year by an average of 8%. PATHETIC! The damn budget should be going down not up. __________________ Anything you post on this BB can and will be used against you... Last edited by KCTitus; 06-08-2001 at 12:37 PM..
Posts: 26,193

06-08-2001, 12:35 PM	#25
AustinChief Administrator Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Austin Casino cash: $2239112	Keg, I agree... but we both know that it will never happen. It's time that we boned up and took responsibility for all of our parents mistakes and bad budgeting... yeah it sucks... but are WE responsible enough to suffer a little (and I STRESS a little... try living with taxes like they have in Europe ...) and set things right for our later years and future generations? It makes me sick to think that we will continue to bury our heads in the sand and ignore the future ramifications of being so irresponsible. One of my favourite politicians has always been Bod Dole... because during the Reagan years of increased spending and decreased taxes (for the wealthy)... Bob Dole voted AGAINST most spending increases AND he voted AGAINST most tax cuts!!! I would be willing to bet that Mr. Dole's checkbook was ALWAYS in balance! --Kyle
Posts: 19,601

06-08-2001, 12:37 PM	#26
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	Yep, other Kyle. Gotta dream though...
Posts: 58,682

06-08-2001, 12:54 PM	#27
ck_IN Feels so good. Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10004900	First of all retiring outstanding debt isn't as easy as making an extra mortgage payment. That debt is held in bonds. Bonds have a call date. The bond can't be retired before the call date. Also a premium is usually needed when a bond is called at the call date. Retiring debt could actually wind up costing more. Also does anyone actually trust the politicians to use the excess money to retire debt? I certainly don't. Regardless of party, if politicians have access to money they'll spend it. And don't bring up accounting gimicks like 'lock boxes'. Spending caps have been in place for years and have yearly been ignored. My only problems with the tax cut is that A. It's too small. Double the thing and then we can legitmately call it a tax cut in the finest Reagan tradition. And B. it's backloaded. The IRA limits won't be fully phased in untill 2006. Front load it and get the money out of D.C NOW. The less money in D.C. the better we all are. __________________ As sweet as Tupelo Honey
Posts: 2,718

06-08-2001, 12:55 PM	#28
gh4chiefs Regular Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Jefferson City, MO Casino cash: $2093592	Uh guys, Surely you're not suggesting we pay higher taxes? PLEASE tell me you're just trying to start a good debate and you really don't believe that. __________________ Gary
Posts: 1,486

06-08-2001, 12:56 PM	#29
gh4chiefs Regular Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Jefferson City, MO Casino cash: $2093592	Thank God for your post ck, some of these post were SERIOUSLY depressing me. __________________ Gary
Posts: 1,486

06-08-2001, 01:00 PM	#30
Clint in Wichita Veteran Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10004900	I like tax cuts, but the govt. should decrease spending with each cut. Reagan may have cut taxes, but he increased spending dramatically.
Posts: 4,458