Seminoles considering legal action over Mascot Ban - Page 2

**mlyonsd** · 08-06-2005, 11:26 AM

IMO banning "hostile" and "abusive" mascots only at NCAA tournaments is silly. Either ban them all together or not at all. I fail to see the NCAA's logic on this one.

_____________________________________________________________

School Threatens Lawsuit Over NCAA Mascot Ban

Saturday, August 06, 2005

INDIANAPOLIS — Fed up with what it considers "hostile" and "abusive" American Indian nicknames, the NCAA (search) announced Friday it would shut those words and images out of postseason tournaments, a move that left some school officials angry and threatening legal action.

Starting in February, any school with a nickname or logo considered racially or ethnically "hostile" or "abusive" by the NCAA would be prohibited from using them in postseason events. Mascots will not be allowed to perform at tournament games, and band members and cheerleaders will also be barred from using American Indians on their uniforms beginning in 2008.

Major college football teams are not subject to the ban because there is no official NCAA tournament.

Affected schools were quick to complain, and Florida State (search) — home of the Seminoles — threatened legal action.

"That the NCAA would now label our close bond with the Seminole people as culturally 'hostile and abusive' is both outrageous and insulting," Florida State president T.K. Wetherell (search) said in a statement.

"I intend to pursue all legal avenues to ensure that this unacceptable decision is overturned, and that this university will forever be associated with the 'unconquered' spirit of the Seminole Tribe of Florida (search)," he added.

The committee also recommended that schools follow the examples of Wisconsin and Iowa by refusing to schedule contests against schools that use American Indian nicknames.

While NCAA officials admit they still can't force schools to change nicknames or logos, they are making a statement they believe is long overdue. Eighteen mascots, including Florida State's Seminole and Illinois' Illini (search), were on the list of offenders.

Those schools will not be permitted to host future NCAA tournament games, and if events have already been awarded to those sites, the school must cover any logos or nicknames that appear.

"Certainly some things remain to be answered from today, and one of those things is the definition of what is 'hostile or abusive,'" said Tom Hardy, a spokesman at Illinois.

The NCAA did not give a clear answer on that.

President Myles Brand (search) noted that some schools using the Warrior nickname will not face sanctions because they do not use Indian symbols. One school, North Carolina-Pembroke (search) — which uses the nickname Braves — will also be exempted because Brand said the school has historically had a high percentage of students, more than 20 percent, who are American Indians.

"We believe hostile or abusive nicknames are troubling to us and it can't continue," committee chairman Walter Harrison said. "We're trying to send a message, very strongly, saying that these mascots are not appropriate for NCAA championships."

The decision, however, quickly evoked passions and complaints from both sides.

At Florida State, Wetherell said the NCAA was trying to embarrass the school for using its nickname, even though the Seminole Tribe of Florida has given the university permission to continue using it.

"Other Seminole tribes are not supportive," said Charlotte Westerhaus, the NCAA vice president for diversity and inclusion.

Supporters also were unhappy.

Vernon Bellecourt, president of the National Coalition on Racism in Sports and Media (search) and a member of the Anishinabe-Ojibwe Nation in Minnesota, approved of the ban but had hoped the NCAA would take even stronger action.

"We're not so happy about the fact that they didn't make the decision to ban the use of Indian team names and mascots," he said.

Harrison, president at the University of Hartford, said the executive committee does not have the authority to do that, and schools can still appeal their inclusion on the list.

Brand and Harrison said they hoped school officials would pursue policy changes through the NCAA first, before going to court.

"I suspect that some of those would like to having a ruling on that," Brand said. "But unless there is a change before Feb. 1, they will have to abide by it."

Two years ago, the NCAA recommended schools determine for themselves whether Indian depictions were offensive.

Among the schools to change nicknames in recent years were St. John's (from Redmen to Red Storm) and Marquette (from Warriors to Golden Eagles).

But that hasn't changed opinions on either side.

"They're not willing to give up this money," Bellecourt said, referring to merchandising revenue. "We would hope that it (the decision) was the handwriting on the wall that would urge them to drop these team names and mascots."

In other actions, the executive committee approved:

-Imposing stronger penalties for schools that fall well below the NCAA's new academic scoring system. Harrison said teams would receive a warning letter the first year; restrictions on scholarships, recruiting and playing time the second year; and a postseason ban the third year. If a school fails to meet the standard four consecutive years, all teams at that school would be ineligible for postseason play.

-Rewarding schools that perform consistently well in the classroom with public recognition and additional money. Schools that make significant improvements may also be singled out for recognition.

-Not penalizing schools for athletes who leave when circumstances are deemed beyond the control of the athlete or school. Included among the measure would be the dropping of programs or majors, or the death of a family member. Departures because of coaching changes would not be included. Schools could also salvage one point in the new academic measurement if underclassmen are academically eligible when they are drafted and would receive a bonus point if an underclassmen returned to complete his or her degree.

-A two-year contract extension for Brand. His deal was to run through Dec. 31, 2007 and now includes an indefinite two-year rollover.

-Recommended schools re-examine their policies regarding alcohol sales and advertising.

**mlyonsd** · 08-06-2005, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J Diddy

I believe they are trying to force them to change it for fear of missing out on a championship. Which is Bullshit, especially to the athletes who are busting their asses to win one.

Very true but still, I see it as a chicken chit way to address what they concieve is a problem.

Thig Lyfe · 08-06-2005, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanilla Thunder

Redskins. Who gives a crap? It's just a name, it's not like they are going to peoples houses and beating them up or killing them. How thin-skinned are people?

"Washington Thinskins". That would be offensive.

Pitt Gorilla · 08-06-2005, 01:22 PM

I honestly don't care either way (it really doesn't hold any significance to me). However, anything that gets schools like FSU upset can't be all bad.

**RealSNR** · 08-06-2005, 01:34 PM

I'd like to see the NFL TRY and put a ban on the Redskins. The people of WDC will have Paul Tagliabue's head on a stick within days of the ban.

Oh, and the NCAA is full of shit, too. Their policy before this regarding team nicknames was, "it's the school's business to decide if a team name needs to be changed." Yeah, and now it's still the school's business, which happens to be their business, I guess.

Where I live, the UND Fighting Sioux will be hosting the WCHA finals. They will be forbidden to do that if all the protesting from the schools doesn't get noticed.

This is total bullshit until they ban the Fighting Sioux AND the Fighting Irish. I know a couple of Irish guys on my block that are offended by Notre Dame's use of them as a mascot. Not. And if they ban Fighting Irish, screw the NCAA for going awol.

Pitt Gorilla · 08-06-2005, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR

I'd like to see the NFL TRY and put a ban on the Redskins. The people of WDC will have Paul Tagliabue's head on a stick within days of the ban.

Oh, and the NCAA is full of shit, too. Their policy before this regarding team nicknames was, "it's the school's business to decide if a team name needs to be changed." Yeah, and now it's still the school's business, which happens to be their business, I guess.

Where I live, the UND Fighting Sioux will be hosting the WCHA finals. They will be forbidden to do that if all the protesting from the schools doesn't get noticed.

This is total bullshit until they ban the Fighting Sioux AND the Fighting Irish. I know a couple of Irish guys on my block that are offended by Notre Dame's use of them as a mascot. Not. And if they ban Fighting Irish, screw the NCAA for going awol.

Dude, did you read your last paragraph?

Simplex3 · 08-06-2005, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990

So the "Redskins" is a sign of respect? IMHO, thats the one truly offensive mascot. Whats even worse is, its representing our nations Capital!

Whatever there Chief.

Now you thinking? I can use just about any noun you dream up in an insult.

**RealSNR** · 08-06-2005, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla

Dude, did you read your last paragraph?

Yes. My writing style is pretty confusing, I know. But what I was going for was that it's ridiculous that the NCAA specifically said "Native American" team names. If the Fighting Sioux name narrows out an ethnic group and labels them as a bunch of wild uncivilized people, then the same applies for the Fighting Irish. But according to the NCAA's rule, Notre Dame will not get slapped on the hand for this.

Simplex3 · 08-06-2005, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J Diddy

I believe they are trying to force them to change it for fear of missing out on a championship. Which is Bullshit, especially to the athletes who are busting their asses to win one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlyonsd

Very true but still, I see it as a chicken chit way to address what they concieve is a problem.

The NCAA has no authority over the schools, only their participation in sanctioned events. The only threat they can use against a school is to withhold them from NCAA tournaments and whatnot.

Simplex3 · 08-06-2005, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR

Yes. My writing style is pretty confusing, I know. But what I was going for was that it's ridiculous that the NCAA specifically said "Native American" team names. If the Fighting Sioux name narrows out an ethnic group and labels them as a bunch of wild uncivilized people, then the same applies for the Fighting Irish. But according to the NCAA's rule, Notre Dame will not get slapped on the hand for this.

Yeah, and how about that logo that portrays all Irish people as midget drunks looking to get in a fight?

Oh, wait, they are. Never mind this post.

**Skip Towne** · 08-06-2005, 02:59 PM

It is fitting the NCAA is run by such a dipshit as Myles Brand. He's the lily livered turd that Bobby Knight ran over for years. He hasn't got enough bones to make a back. I hope the NCAA takes gas big time in court.

**mlyonsd** · 08-06-2005, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simplex3

The NCAA has no authority over the schools, only their participation in sanctioned events. The only threat they can use against a school is to withhold them from NCAA tournaments and whatnot.

That's news to me. If they don't have control over the conferences I can see why they ruled the way they did.

If that's the case if I were the conferences I'd make my own deals for post season tournaments and bypass the NCAA altogther. Fug'em.

**jAZ** · 08-06-2005, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlyonsd

That's news to me. If they don't have control over the conferences I can see why they ruled the way they did.

If that's the case if I were the conferences I'd make my own deals for post season tournaments and bypass the NCAA altogther. Fug'em.

They did all that they had the juridiction to do with this. So you can object to them doing anything at all, but you can't really object to them doing nothing more than this.

08-06-2005, 11:26 AM
mlyonsd Supporter Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Spink, SD Casino cash: $1293762	Seminoles considering legal action over Mascot Ban IMO banning "hostile" and "abusive" mascots only at NCAA tournaments is silly. Either ban them all together or not at all. I fail to see the NCAA's logic on this one. _____________________________________________________________ School Threatens Lawsuit Over NCAA Mascot Ban Saturday, August 06, 2005 INDIANAPOLIS — Fed up with what it considers "hostile" and "abusive" American Indian nicknames, the NCAA (search) announced Friday it would shut those words and images out of postseason tournaments, a move that left some school officials angry and threatening legal action. Starting in February, any school with a nickname or logo considered racially or ethnically "hostile" or "abusive" by the NCAA would be prohibited from using them in postseason events. Mascots will not be allowed to perform at tournament games, and band members and cheerleaders will also be barred from using American Indians on their uniforms beginning in 2008. Major college football teams are not subject to the ban because there is no official NCAA tournament. Affected schools were quick to complain, and Florida State (search) — home of the Seminoles — threatened legal action. "That the NCAA would now label our close bond with the Seminole people as culturally 'hostile and abusive' is both outrageous and insulting," Florida State president T.K. Wetherell (search) said in a statement. "I intend to pursue all legal avenues to ensure that this unacceptable decision is overturned, and that this university will forever be associated with the 'unconquered' spirit of the Seminole Tribe of Florida (search)," he added. The committee also recommended that schools follow the examples of Wisconsin and Iowa by refusing to schedule contests against schools that use American Indian nicknames. While NCAA officials admit they still can't force schools to change nicknames or logos, they are making a statement they believe is long overdue. Eighteen mascots, including Florida State's Seminole and Illinois' Illini (search), were on the list of offenders. Those schools will not be permitted to host future NCAA tournament games, and if events have already been awarded to those sites, the school must cover any logos or nicknames that appear. "Certainly some things remain to be answered from today, and one of those things is the definition of what is 'hostile or abusive,'" said Tom Hardy, a spokesman at Illinois. The NCAA did not give a clear answer on that. President Myles Brand (search) noted that some schools using the Warrior nickname will not face sanctions because they do not use Indian symbols. One school, North Carolina-Pembroke (search) — which uses the nickname Braves — will also be exempted because Brand said the school has historically had a high percentage of students, more than 20 percent, who are American Indians. "We believe hostile or abusive nicknames are troubling to us and it can't continue," committee chairman Walter Harrison said. "We're trying to send a message, very strongly, saying that these mascots are not appropriate for NCAA championships." The decision, however, quickly evoked passions and complaints from both sides. At Florida State, Wetherell said the NCAA was trying to embarrass the school for using its nickname, even though the Seminole Tribe of Florida has given the university permission to continue using it. "Other Seminole tribes are not supportive," said Charlotte Westerhaus, the NCAA vice president for diversity and inclusion. Supporters also were unhappy. Vernon Bellecourt, president of the National Coalition on Racism in Sports and Media (search) and a member of the Anishinabe-Ojibwe Nation in Minnesota, approved of the ban but had hoped the NCAA would take even stronger action. "We're not so happy about the fact that they didn't make the decision to ban the use of Indian team names and mascots," he said. Harrison, president at the University of Hartford, said the executive committee does not have the authority to do that, and schools can still appeal their inclusion on the list. Brand and Harrison said they hoped school officials would pursue policy changes through the NCAA first, before going to court. "I suspect that some of those would like to having a ruling on that," Brand said. "But unless there is a change before Feb. 1, they will have to abide by it." Two years ago, the NCAA recommended schools determine for themselves whether Indian depictions were offensive. Among the schools to change nicknames in recent years were St. John's (from Redmen to Red Storm) and Marquette (from Warriors to Golden Eagles). But that hasn't changed opinions on either side. "They're not willing to give up this money," Bellecourt said, referring to merchandising revenue. "We would hope that it (the decision) was the handwriting on the wall that would urge them to drop these team names and mascots." In other actions, the executive committee approved: -Imposing stronger penalties for schools that fall well below the NCAA's new academic scoring system. Harrison said teams would receive a warning letter the first year; restrictions on scholarships, recruiting and playing time the second year; and a postseason ban the third year. If a school fails to meet the standard four consecutive years, all teams at that school would be ineligible for postseason play. -Rewarding schools that perform consistently well in the classroom with public recognition and additional money. Schools that make significant improvements may also be singled out for recognition. -Not penalizing schools for athletes who leave when circumstances are deemed beyond the control of the athlete or school. Included among the measure would be the dropping of programs or majors, or the death of a family member. Departures because of coaching changes would not be included. Schools could also salvage one point in the new academic measurement if underclassmen are academically eligible when they are drafted and would receive a bonus point if an underclassmen returned to complete his or her degree. -A two-year contract extension for Brand. His deal was to run through Dec. 31, 2007 and now includes an indefinite two-year rollover. -Recommended schools re-examine their policies regarding alcohol sales and advertising.
Posts: 38,926

08-06-2005, 01:22 PM	#18
Pitt Gorilla Banned! Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: NOT Columbia, MO 65201 Casino cash: $2630194	I honestly don't care either way (it really doesn't hold any significance to me). However, anything that gets schools like FSU upset can't be all bad. __________________ Your son is a bench warmer because of your weak genetics not because of the coach Norlin Mommsen is disgusting.
Posts: 46,202

08-06-2005, 02:59 PM	#25
Skip Towne Supporter Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: T-Town Casino cash: $10004900	It is fitting the NCAA is run by such a dipshit as Myles Brand. He's the lily livered turd that Bobby Knight ran over for years. He hasn't got enough bones to make a back. I hope the NCAA takes gas big time in court.
Posts: 69,689