another Greg Williams HC thread - Page 2

FringeNC · 12-27-2005, 12:28 PM

I'm about the biggest DV/AS supporter around and I want one of those two to be our HC in 2006...

...but if not, I want Gregg Williams. You win in this league through superior coaching. Gregg Williams has had a great D wherever he has gone. In DC, he has one of the best Ds in the league, and has zero Pro Bowlers. Zero. I'm not sure that DC has more talent on D than we do. They have Gregg. We have Gunther.

Williams definitely brings something to the table: he's a D mastermind.

What in the hell do Butch Davis and Bob Stoops bring to the table? Or for that matter, what does Herm bring to the table?

MOhillbilly · 12-27-2005, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter

MOhillbilly:

Do you have any sense for, IF he would change his mind somehow.....whether or not we have the players in place who would work in his system?

One side of me says, with the system he runs, I'm not sure we have the types of "mental" players needed. If Arrington can't handle it....

OTOH, maybe that's what they need, because physically they aren't dominating anyone. Of course, it could be most of 'em need to just be gone.....minus four or five.

Thoughts?

i have mixed feelings about what was said right now. let me mull it over for acouple days and i will dish what i think is pertinant.

**Mr. Kotter** · 12-27-2005, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOhillbilly

i have mixed feelings about what was said right now. let me mull it over for acouple days and i will dish what i think is pertinant.

Thanks.

Cntrygal · 12-27-2005, 06:48 PM

As the DC - he's great.

As the HC - he SUCKED.

Alphaman · 12-27-2005, 08:15 PM

Why is it that many Chiefs fans criticize Vermeil for being only concerned about the offense, but want Williams because he's had great defenses at Tennessee, Buffalo and Washington? He was the head coach at Buffalo and his offense was horrible. HORRIBLE!!! Also, don't forget that we torched that defense 38-5 3 years ago.

I don't want a defensive minded HC or an offensive minded HC. I want a defensive minded DC and an offensive minded OC. I want a proven leader of leaders for HC. A guy who has proven he can build programs, can motivate star talented players to reach their potential, a guy who can get hardworking, mildly athletic players to play above their potential, a guy who has proven he can take 53 individuals and make them one unit, a team and a guy who players love and are loyal to.

In my opinion, that's what is necessary for a HC. If Charlie Weis were available, he'd be a great choice. So would Cowher or Fisher, but they aren't likely to be available either. Herm Edwards may be though and he fits that criteria as well.

Brock · 12-27-2005, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alphaman

I don't want a defensive minded HC or an offensive minded HC. I want a defensive minded DC and an offensive minded OC. I want a proven leader of leaders for HC. A guy who has proven he can build programs, can motivate star talented players to reach their potential, a guy who can get hardworking, mildly athletic players to play above their potential, a guy who has proven he can take 53 individuals and make them one unit, a team and a guy who players love and are loyal to.

You'll be getting Al or Gunther. Get used to the idea.

Alphaman · 12-27-2005, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock

You'll be getting Al or Gunther. Get used to the idea.

I really don't think so. I think Carl will go outside of the organization even though it may mean he'll lose Al. I wouldn't be surprised to see him get Gregg Williams, but I think I don't think it will be just because he's defensive minded or has had defensive success.

milkman · 12-27-2005, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alphaman

Why is it that many Chiefs fans criticize Vermeil for being only concerned about the offense, but want Williams because he's had great defenses at Tennessee, Buffalo and Washington? He was the head coach at Buffalo and his offense was horrible. HORRIBLE!!! Also, don't forget that we torched that defense 38-5 3 years ago.

I don't want a defensive minded HC or an offensive minded HC. I want a defensive minded DC and an offensive minded OC. I want a proven leader of leaders for HC. A guy who has proven he can build programs, can motivate star talented players to reach their potential, a guy who can get hardworking, mildly athletic players to play above their potential, a guy who has proven he can take 53 individuals and make them one unit, a team and a guy who players love and are loyal to.

In my opinion, that's what is necessary for a HC. If Charlie Weis were available, he'd be a great choice. So would Cowher or Fisher, but they aren't likely to be available either. Herm Edwards may be though and he fits that criteria as well.

You were doing so well, right up to the point that you said "Cowher or Fisher" and "Herm Edwards".

At that point, it just went to shit.

FringeNC · 12-27-2005, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alphaman

Why is it that many Chiefs fans criticize Vermeil for being only concerned about the offense, but want Williams because he's had great defenses at Tennessee, Buffalo and Washington? He was the head coach at Buffalo and his offense was horrible. HORRIBLE!!! Also, don't forget that we torched that defense 38-5 3 years ago.

I don't want a defensive minded HC or an offensive minded HC. I want a defensive minded DC and an offensive minded OC. I want a proven leader of leaders for HC. A guy who has proven he can build programs, can motivate star talented players to reach their potential, a guy who can get hardworking, mildly athletic players to play above their potential, a guy who has proven he can take 53 individuals and make them one unit, a team and a guy who players love and are loyal to.

In my opinion, that's what is necessary for a HC. If Charlie Weis were available, he'd be a great choice. So would Cowher or Fisher, but they aren't likely to be available either. Herm Edwards may be though and he fits that criteria as well.

You win with superior schemes and play-calling. NE has won 3 out of the last 4 SBs..why? Belichick is great D coach, and Weis is (was) a hell of a play-caller. What exactly does Herm bring? I have no doubt that Herm would be successful if he had Al Saunders as OC and Gregg Williams as DC, but who wouldn't be?

Alphaman · 12-27-2005, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FringeNC

You win with superior schemes and play-calling. NE has won 3 out of the last 4 SBs..why? Belichick is great D coach, and Weis is (was) a hell of a play-caller. What exactly does Herm bring? I have no doubt that Herm would be successful if he had Al Saunders as OC and Gregg Williams as DC, but who wouldn't be?

Schemes and play-calling are important, but leadership is what makes the difference. Yes Belichick is a great D coach, but he's a tremendous leader. The fact that he can go through several injuries and still win games by plugging players in (a WR playing CB most of last year) is a demonstration of the leadership, team unity and motivation that I spoke of, not schemes and play-calling.

A HC who can lead will get great schemes and play-calling from his OC and DC.

Alphaman · 12-27-2005, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SideWinder

You were doing so well, right up to the point that you said "Cowher or Fisher" and "Herm Edwards".

At that point, it just went to shit.

Is your problem with Cowher, Fisher or Edwards or all 3?

booger · 12-27-2005, 08:53 PM

Well, from what i've gathered on the net and around the BB's it seems his choices are ass follows: (IMO anyway)

1: Edwards
2: Williams ( if he could get him to change his mind)
3: Stoops ( I think there is a mutual interest here)
4: Carrol ( It might take CP to relinquish some personell power, which is hard to imagine, but keep in mind that Lynn Stiles could easily walk away with DV. He followed him to St. Louis and came back here when DV retired in '99. Also Kuharich had some strong interviews last year for GM openings and it almost seemed like CP was pushing his name so strongly he really didn't want him back. Maybe not. I don't know how it would work, but I could see an agreement If CP and Thum handled the business and contracts and let Carrol have more control than any other HC has had here.)
5: Saunders ( If all else fails CP wouldn't have many options left. Saunders is as good as gone to Detroit or St. Louis very quickly IMO)

I don't completely understand how Edwards can be available though. He could get fired of course. I just don't see a coaching contract where he can void his final two years without an extension. Players yes, coaches though? Maybe Bradway is feeling the heat and wants to go in another direction. Then again, if the Jets were getting impatient with both, why would they allow Bradway to let Edwards walk and pick another HC? Who knows, maybe they will both be gone.

FringeNC · 12-27-2005, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alphaman

A HC who can lead will get great schemes and play-calling from his OC and DC.

Leadership abilities are great. The best leader in the world is not going to get great play-calling and schemes from Jimmy Raye, though He just doesn't know offense like Martz or Saunders.

You think Bill Walsh won all those SBs because of leadership or the advent of the West Coast offense?

milkman · 12-27-2005, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alphaman

Is your problem with Cowher, Fisher or Edwards or all 3?

All 3.

Alphaman · 12-27-2005, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FringeNC

Leadership abilities are great. The best leader in the world is not going to get great play-calling and schemes from Jimmy Raye, though He just doesn't know offense like Martz or Saunders.

You think Bill Walsh won all those SBs because of leadership or the advent of the West Coast offense?

The best leader will get coaches who he can get great play-calling and schemes from. Yes I think Walsh won all those SBs because of leadership. The advent of the West Coast was a part of that leadership. We've already proven that a great offense is not enough. He had to have a Super Bowl quality defense (which he did), thus he had a great team. He got superstars to play up to their potential and play as a team. He was a great leader.

Alphaman · 12-27-2005, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SideWinder

All 3.

Care to expound. All 3 have been rebuilt struggling organizations with great success. Fisher and Cowher have been to the Superbowl. Edwards went to the playoffs 3 times in his first 4 seasons as head coach of the Jets.

12-27-2005, 12:28 PM
FringeNC MVP Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: NC Casino cash: $1306014	another Greg Williams HC thread I'm about the biggest DV/AS supporter around and I want one of those two to be our HC in 2006... ...but if not, I want Gregg Williams. You win in this league through superior coaching. Gregg Williams has had a great D wherever he has gone. In DC, he has one of the best Ds in the league, and has zero Pro Bowlers. Zero. I'm not sure that DC has more talent on D than we do. They have Gregg. We have Gunther. Williams definitely brings something to the table: he's a D mastermind. What in the hell do Butch Davis and Bob Stoops bring to the table? Or for that matter, what does Herm bring to the table?
Posts: 10,174

12-27-2005, 06:48 PM	#18
Cntrygal Brrrrr..... Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: USA!!! :) Casino cash: $9954930	As the DC - he's great. As the HC - he SUCKED.
Posts: 4,793

12-27-2005, 08:15 PM	#19
Alphaman Veteran Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Austin, TX, USA Casino cash: $10004900	Why is it that many Chiefs fans criticize Vermeil for being only concerned about the offense, but want Williams because he's had great defenses at Tennessee, Buffalo and Washington? He was the head coach at Buffalo and his offense was horrible. HORRIBLE!!! Also, don't forget that we torched that defense 38-5 3 years ago. I don't want a defensive minded HC or an offensive minded HC. I want a defensive minded DC and an offensive minded OC. I want a proven leader of leaders for HC. A guy who has proven he can build programs, can motivate star talented players to reach their potential, a guy who can get hardworking, mildly athletic players to play above their potential, a guy who has proven he can take 53 individuals and make them one unit, a team and a guy who players love and are loyal to. In my opinion, that's what is necessary for a HC. If Charlie Weis were available, he'd be a great choice. So would Cowher or Fisher, but they aren't likely to be available either. Herm Edwards may be though and he fits that criteria as well.
Posts: 1,380

12-27-2005, 08:53 PM	#26
booger Don't Tug on Superman's Cape Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: clear out in the sticks Casino cash: $948550	Well, from what i've gathered on the net and around the BB's it seems his choices are ass follows: (IMO anyway) 1: Edwards 2: Williams ( if he could get him to change his mind) 3: Stoops ( I think there is a mutual interest here) 4: Carrol ( It might take CP to relinquish some personell power, which is hard to imagine, but keep in mind that Lynn Stiles could easily walk away with DV. He followed him to St. Louis and came back here when DV retired in '99. Also Kuharich had some strong interviews last year for GM openings and it almost seemed like CP was pushing his name so strongly he really didn't want him back. Maybe not. I don't know how it would work, but I could see an agreement If CP and Thum handled the business and contracts and let Carrol have more control than any other HC has had here.) 5: Saunders ( If all else fails CP wouldn't have many options left. Saunders is as good as gone to Detroit or St. Louis very quickly IMO) I don't completely understand how Edwards can be available though. He could get fired of course. I just don't see a coaching contract where he can void his final two years without an extension. Players yes, coaches though? Maybe Bradway is feeling the heat and wants to go in another direction. Then again, if the Jets were getting impatient with both, why would they allow Bradway to let Edwards walk and pick another HC? Who knows, maybe they will both be gone. __________________ 2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
Posts: 12,512