My theory on why we are bad against the bootlege: hint it is the DTs - Page 2

Logical · 08-12-2006, 11:14 PM

That is right because we get no push up the middle from the DTs the DEs have to crash. Proper technique is to rush straight for about 2 yards then crash. If we do that the QB will get all the time in the world and the bootleg won't even be an issue because we will have no pressure at all.

JMHO

**Smed1065** · 08-13-2006, 12:51 AM

Or at least flip them off.......Damn it!

kcjayhawks5 · 08-13-2006, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

New rule: Logical is banned in future preseasons.

uve been givin him shit all night

Logical · 08-13-2006, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcjayhawks5

uve been givin him shit all night

You have?

Mojo Rising · 08-13-2006, 05:15 AM

It is not the DT's fault. It is the perimter defender's.

Gunther's "Mad Scientist" schemes often call for players to cheat and cover 2 zones so he can zone blitz another.

This causes the perimeter player on the backside of the play to have to cover 2 zones. When he had more athletic defenders he could get away with it.

Gun should have been brought back as a LB coach. He has done a fine job with Kawika. The D under Gun will continue to lack discipline and technique and will ultimately fail.

Gun's lack of poise and his tendency to lose his temper filters down to the play on the field. Not in a good way. The melt down against the Giants last year and the inability to tackle is very similiar to when Gun loses his cool and melts down.

The only way to defend the bootleg is to have the DE rush straight up the field and not get sucked in to the momemtum of the play. End of story. Be responsible for yourself and don't cover for the player next to you.

redsurfer11 · 08-13-2006, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logical

That is right because we get no push up the middle from the DTs the DEs have to crash. Proper technique is to rush straight for about 2 yards then crash. If we do that the QB will get all the time in the world and the bootleg won't even be an issue because we will have no pressure at all.

JMHO

Sorry Jim, I'll have to go against you on this one. The first priority of a Defensive End is to contain the play. If there is a stunt being used, a linebacker or defensive back should cover the area vacated by the DE.

**mlyonsd** · 08-13-2006, 09:10 AM

The problem starts with the coaching. Period.

chief2000 · 08-13-2006, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlyonsd

The problem starts with the coaching. Period.

Wrong. Lack of speed.

Logical · 08-13-2006, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redsurfer11

Sorry Jim, I'll have to go against you on this one. The first priority of a Defensive End is to contain the play. If there is a stunt being used, a linebacker or defensive back should cover the area vacated by the DE.

I may have been doing a bad job of describing it but that is what I meant. But that is not the way we are playing it our DE crash immediately and I believe it is because we have no push up the middle. I think Mojo brings up a really good point as well.

redsurfer11 · 08-13-2006, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logical

I may have been doing a bad job of describing it but that is what I meant. But that is not the way we are playing it our DE crash immediately and I believe it is because we have no push up the middle. I think Mojo brings up a really good point as well.

I don't think we'll have a problem with it on opening day. Carson Palmer won't be running anywhere. But, the Bengals will use reverses and other miss-direction plays if they see the DE's crashing. Same thing the Cowboys and Giants did to us last year.

FringeNC · 08-13-2006, 09:39 AM

Our D is overly aggressive. Any misdirection or play-fake or cut-back or bootleg is going to give our D fits. If I was an opposing DC, that's all I'd run against Gun.

**Rausch** · 08-13-2006, 09:40 AM

Hicks is SLOW.

Watching this game now he's either got bad legs or he just doesn't give a $3it...

Chieftain58 · 08-13-2006, 09:48 AM

Because it looks like Hicks is running in a mud puddle when he's hauling arse...

Coach · 08-13-2006, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rausch

Hicks is SLOW.

Watching this game now he's either got bad legs or he just doesn't give a $3it...

Looking over the game, I would tend to believe that he doesn't give a shit.

Allen was on the other side of the line, and he was closer to the play when the play was over, and Hicks was seen nowhere near the play.

Eric Hicks, friend to bootleggers everywhere.

Seriously, how many f**kin' bootlegs do you need to see before it's drilled through your head?

Al Bundy · 08-13-2006, 09:55 AM

I am going to hold judgement until I see how Hali and Carlos Hall react to the bootleg, we already know Hicks doesn't react to it. I was at a Denver-Tampa Bay game a couple of years ago and they tried the bootleg on tampa a few times and Simeon Rice, Greg Spires, and Dewayne White were all over it.

jspchief · 08-13-2006, 11:11 AM

Logical's comments just reinforce that he didn't watch the game.

Against a coventional running scheme, having the DTs crash straight up field might work. Against the Texans (Broncos) running scheme, that would set up their running game to destroy us.

The was they run the ball is an incredibly good way to set up the bootleg. The enitre line crashes in the direction of the run, with the RB looking for the first open cutback lane. If The DT goes upfield instead flowing with the blocks, the RB has the outside of the field to work with against the DE.

The reason this is so effective with the bootleg is that every thing the the defenders are taught says to contain the backside by flowing down the line. It's instinct to flow to the ball in case the RB cuts back.

The DE has to recognize the fake, or at the very least be cautious in his backside pursuit. He also has to have the speed to get to the QB when he recognizes it. In this particular case, the play of the DTs has very little bearing.

08-12-2006, 11:14 PM
Logical Screw U if U can't take a joke Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10004900	My theory on why we are bad against the bootlege: hint it is the DTs That is right because we get no push up the middle from the DTs the DEs have to crash. Proper technique is to rush straight for about 2 yards then crash. If we do that the QB will get all the time in the world and the bootleg won't even be an issue because we will have no pressure at all. JMHO
Posts: 31,579

08-13-2006, 12:51 AM	#16
Smed1065 Supporter Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Returning From Hell Casino cash: $7643673	Or at least flip them off.......Damn it!
Posts: 9,862

08-13-2006, 05:15 AM	#19
Mojo Rising Veteran Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: OC Casino cash: $10009560	It is not the DT's fault. It is the perimter defender's. Gunther's "Mad Scientist" schemes often call for players to cheat and cover 2 zones so he can zone blitz another. This causes the perimeter player on the backside of the play to have to cover 2 zones. When he had more athletic defenders he could get away with it. Gun should have been brought back as a LB coach. He has done a fine job with Kawika. The D under Gun will continue to lack discipline and technique and will ultimately fail. Gun's lack of poise and his tendency to lose his temper filters down to the play on the field. Not in a good way. The melt down against the Giants last year and the inability to tackle is very similiar to when Gun loses his cool and melts down. The only way to defend the bootleg is to have the DE rush straight up the field and not get sucked in to the momemtum of the play. End of story. Be responsible for yourself and don't cover for the player next to you.
Posts: 1,792

08-13-2006, 09:10 AM	#21
mlyonsd Supporter Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Spink, SD Casino cash: $1313762	The problem starts with the coaching. Period.
Posts: 38,922

08-13-2006, 09:39 AM	#25
FringeNC MVP Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: NC Casino cash: $1456014	Our D is overly aggressive. Any misdirection or play-fake or cut-back or bootleg is going to give our D fits. If I was an opposing DC, that's all I'd run against Gun.
Posts: 10,173

08-13-2006, 09:48 AM	#27
Chieftain58 Fan club member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Land of OZ Casino cash: $10005117	Because it looks like Hicks is running in a mud puddle when he's hauling arse... __________________
Posts: 1,626

08-13-2006, 09:55 AM	#29
Al Bundy Damnit Peg Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Overland Park Casino cash: $5241831	I am going to hold judgement until I see how Hali and Carlos Hall react to the bootleg, we already know Hicks doesn't react to it. I was at a Denver-Tampa Bay game a couple of years ago and they tried the bootleg on tampa a few times and Simeon Rice, Greg Spires, and Dewayne White were all over it.
Posts: 23,334

08-13-2006, 11:11 AM	#30
jspchief BAMF Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Your Face Casino cash: $9998710	Logical's comments just reinforce that he didn't watch the game. Against a coventional running scheme, having the DTs crash straight up field might work. Against the Texans (Broncos) running scheme, that would set up their running game to destroy us. The was they run the ball is an incredibly good way to set up the bootleg. The enitre line crashes in the direction of the run, with the RB looking for the first open cutback lane. If The DT goes upfield instead flowing with the blocks, the RB has the outside of the field to work with against the DE. The reason this is so effective with the bootleg is that every thing the the defenders are taught says to contain the backside by flowing down the line. It's instinct to flow to the ball in case the RB cuts back. The DE has to recognize the fake, or at the very least be cautious in his backside pursuit. He also has to have the speed to get to the QB when he recognizes it. In this particular case, the play of the DTs has very little bearing. __________________ Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all.
Posts: 27,207