IT Certification questions.. - Page 2

**The Bad Guy** · 10-17-2006, 12:37 PM

I'm tossing around the idea of scrapping going back to grad school and concentrating on getting a certificate in IT.

I'm trying to narrow it down right now. I'd love to do some programming, network/help desk type stuff and was wondering if anyone could give me some direction on to what classes to look into for IT.

I would greatly appreciate any help.

Thanks.

HC_Chief · 10-17-2006, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StcChief

Start by doing database programming in language of choice Java,C#,C,C++, native T-SQL (SqlServer) PLSQL (Oracle) and learn and know SQL cold.

That's two different jobs, Stc. If you're going to learn Java, .NET, or, worse, C/C++ i.e. unmanaged code, you're going down the programmer track, not DBA.

DBA's may be familiar with those languages, but they aren't experts in those languages... that's what programmers are for. If one wants to be a DBA, one should learn ANSI SQL, then pick up the various additions/extensisons relative to the RDBMS of choice (i.e. PL/SQL -v- T-SQL).

A DBA must also know infrastructure. So many hardware factors affect the data tier that in-depth knowlege of the base NOS is crucial. Programmers don't give a squat about that stuff; all they care about is the API.

StcChief · 10-17-2006, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HC_Chief

That's two different jobs, Stc. If you're going to learn Java, .NET, or, worse, C/C++ i.e. unmanaged code, you're going down the programmer track, not DBA.

DBA's may be familiar with those languages, but they aren't experts in those languages... that's what programmers are for. If one wants to be a DBA, one should learn ANSI SQL, then pick up the various additions/extensisons relative to the RDBMS of choice (i.e. PL/SQL -v- T-SQL).

A DBA must also know infrastructure. So many hardware factors affect the data tier that in-depth knowlege of the base NOS is crucial. Programmers don't give a squat about that stuff; all they care about is the API.

Wasn't sure where he interest is.....I know that 3GL are that and most don't care about the database.

To me it's a competency factor, Working thru from programming side to DBA may have more involvement with business systems development than a Unix Admin that becomes a DBA......

Now days... DBA know really have to know both sides of coin.

Setting up an initial DB, deciding on infastructure etc is team effort
but day-to-day management of DB, tuning , Datamodel new systems
etc. conversion of data etc. Programming skills needed.

Depends on size of shop, DBA needs to be well rounded person.

If you want to specialize good area, but background should be broad.

HC_Chief · 10-17-2006, 03:58 PM

True... but again it depends on the area of speciality within the DBA world (ie "data tier"). Some DBAs concentrate on the development side; writing packages, procedures, and SQL code to support application development. Others concentrate on tuning and maintenance, where knowlege in a 3GL (third generation language for the uninitiated

the jargon can get deep quickly) is virtually useless. In those instances you have to be an expert at the NOS level. Others are architects, who need a solid background in both areas, plus must be highly steeped in relational theory. And then you get into BI, data warehousing, analytics, reporting... those are monsters on their own

Data tier is exceptionally complex and wide open. It is really a good area to be in; but to get there you are going to have to take some lumps. I know I did... working through BRUTAL projects, where the stress level is very high, and the hours are ridiculous. It sucks sometimes but man, it does wonders for building you emperical knowlege base.

StcChief · 10-17-2006, 04:07 PM

MODS: move to media center tech area....

Agreed the Data tier is the most wide open,

Lots of areas of interest and moving between them can be very good for your skills, future projects.

This area IMO is less likely to be really farmed out (outsourced to India).
Especially for anything involving hard projects, redesign etc where business communication is critical.

I look at folks to see if they can solve business problems,
can think outside the box. Have been thru projects and learned alot along the way and bring those skills to NEW business problems.

Getting a cert is the tip of the iceberg. some see it as a kick start to good money, maybe down the road, depends on skills you have already.[B]

**The Bad Guy** · 10-17-2006, 05:50 PM

I just talked to my stepbrother, who does IT work for the city of Memphis and he said the same thing about DBA. I gotta see where I can take classes in my area.

Big Dog · 10-17-2006, 06:49 PM

I teach programming to people breaking into the industry as well as experienced professionals. If you decide on programming give me an IM. Our .Net developers are currently quite successfull in landing employment.

It can get very confusing, but I think it breaks down into 3 or 4 main areas:

IT Pro - help desk, troubleshooting, networks, server management
DBA - administration or development
Programming - development in one or several languages including web technologies.

you might add

Program Specific - people who have learned one, or a series of programs that are in demand...i.e. CAD programs, Adobe products, etc.

This is really simplified, but that's why the advice seems so varied, it usually comes from or talks about one of these aspects of the IT industry.

teedubya · 10-17-2006, 07:05 PM

talk to Braincase on this one.

I would say either DBA, or .NET programmer. .NET is everywhere right now, with tons of job opportunities.

10-17-2006, 12:37 PM
The Bad Guy Scott Pioli Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: The Copacobana Casino cash: $9363645	IT Certification questions.. I'm tossing around the idea of scrapping going back to grad school and concentrating on getting a certificate in IT. I'm trying to narrow it down right now. I'd love to do some programming, network/help desk type stuff and was wondering if anyone could give me some direction on to what classes to look into for IT. I would greatly appreciate any help. Thanks.
Posts: 23,212

10-17-2006, 03:58 PM	#18
HC_Chief That's just f***in' stupid Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: suburbia Casino cash: $3687107	True... but again it depends on the area of speciality within the DBA world (ie "data tier"). Some DBAs concentrate on the development side; writing packages, procedures, and SQL code to support application development. Others concentrate on tuning and maintenance, where knowlege in a 3GL (third generation language for the uninitiated the jargon can get deep quickly) is virtually useless. In those instances you have to be an expert at the NOS level. Others are architects, who need a solid background in both areas, plus must be highly steeped in relational theory. And then you get into BI, data warehousing, analytics, reporting... those are monsters on their own Data tier is exceptionally complex and wide open. It is really a good area to be in; but to get there you are going to have to take some lumps. I know I did... working through BRUTAL projects, where the stress level is very high, and the hours are ridiculous. It sucks sometimes but man, it does wonders for building you emperical knowlege base. __________________ "Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the war room!"
Posts: 12,355

10-17-2006, 04:07 PM	#19
StcChief Playing for #1 Draft Pick Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Just West of Lambs land Casino cash: $10004900	MODS: move to media center tech area.... Agreed the Data tier is the most wide open, Lots of areas of interest and moving between them can be very good for your skills, future projects. This area IMO is less likely to be really farmed out (outsourced to India). Especially for anything involving hard projects, redesign etc where business communication is critical. I look at folks to see if they can solve business problems, can think outside the box. Have been thru projects and learned alot along the way and bring those skills to NEW business problems. Getting a cert is the tip of the iceberg. some see it as a kick start to good money, maybe down the road, depends on skills you have already.[B] __________________ sig test for this screwy schema Last edited by StcChief; 10-17-2006 at 04:59 PM.. Reason: mods to move this thread.
Posts: 25,901

10-17-2006, 05:50 PM	#20
The Bad Guy Scott Pioli Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: The Copacobana Casino cash: $9363645	I just talked to my stepbrother, who does IT work for the city of Memphis and he said the same thing about DBA. I gotta see where I can take classes in my area. __________________
Posts: 23,212

10-17-2006, 06:49 PM	#21
Big Dog gimme 3 stacks of high society Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Grain Valley, MO Casino cash: $10004900	I teach programming to people breaking into the industry as well as experienced professionals. If you decide on programming give me an IM. Our .Net developers are currently quite successfull in landing employment. It can get very confusing, but I think it breaks down into 3 or 4 main areas: IT Pro - help desk, troubleshooting, networks, server management DBA - administration or development Programming - development in one or several languages including web technologies. you might add Program Specific - people who have learned one, or a series of programs that are in demand...i.e. CAD programs, Adobe products, etc. This is really simplified, but that's why the advice seems so varied, it usually comes from or talks about one of these aspects of the IT industry. __________________ If you are going to run with the big dogs, you had better learn to pee in the tall grass!
Posts: 236

10-17-2006, 07:05 PM	#22
teedubya Most Valuable Poster Join Date: Oct 2003 Casino cash: $9460002	talk to Braincase on this one. I would say either DBA, or .NET programmer. .NET is everywhere right now, with tons of job opportunities.
Posts: 36,664