As NRA convenes in KC - Page 2

BIG_DADDY · 05-18-2001, 05:14 PM

Great article guys. Since I seem to be the only one that brings up this subject, I thought I would let someone else post this thread today but since nobody did today, here it is: [url]http://www.kcstar.com/item/pages/home.pat,local/3accae95.517,.html[/url]

You guys must have some pride in having 40k NRA members meeting there in KC. I am a diehard gun rights fanatic and am intelligent enough to understand that the right to defend yourself and defend your country against tyranny is a fundamental human right each one of us has unless you are mentally ill. I am even for felons having the right to own guns after they have paid their debt to society and then proven they can be a productive member of it for say 5 years or so. Everything is a felony anymore and if they are doing the right things they should be able to defend themselves like anyone else. Out of the 30k deaths attributed to guns by the demorats only 3k are actually innocent victims of gun violence. There are also over 2.5 million successful defensive gun uses in this country every year. This combined with the citizenries right to protect the country against tyranny is overwhelmingly weighted twords gun rights. IMHO you have to be an idiot to buy into the crap the Demorats and liberal media have been selling. BTW, Yes, parents should be held accountable for their kids actions.

BIG DADDY

Hopes he isn't being too harsh. The ONLY right that is more important than the right to bear arms is the the right to free speech. Your thoughts? Anyone going?

Rick Stephens · 05-20-2001, 10:34 PM

Tomahawk 11,

I think that any person who commits a school shooting of any type should be either put in prison for life or given the death penalty. No ifs ands or buts. I also believe that any one caught participating in a drive by shooting should suffer the same fate. I'll bet we would see a lot less of these types of crimes. We need to attack the problem of the individuals commiting the crimes not the guns. The courts are too easy on people who use firearms to commit crimes.

47mack · 05-21-2001, 03:29 AM

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Tomahawk 11 [/i]
[B]
I see your point to an extent. I just think that a license and small waiting period is of little issue in light of Columbine and the LA Bank robbery and such.

[/B][/QUOTE]

Requiring a license will do NOTHING. Many states can't enforce licensing a vehicle that is still being driven, much less a gun that is stored away in someone's home.

There is no need for gun control. It will not lower the crime rate. It will only punish law abiding citizens.

Putting a license on a gun and its owner will not stop another Columbine from happening. A justice system that will execute these freaks will.

keg in kc · 05-21-2001, 05:12 AM

Requiring someone to be licensed to carry a deadly weapon is not punishment by any stretch of the imagination in my humble opinion, no more than requiring someone to be licensed to drive a car.

As a matter of fact, I would go so far as to promote mandatory education in order to get these licenses, including the basics behind firearm use and gun safety. It should be a system exactly like we have to gain a driver's licence (but unlike that system, it needs to be enforced seriously). It should be a one-time deal with state-by-state regulation (not federal...) with periodic renewal. Persons with a legitimate firearms background (military, police, etc.) should be exempt from the training portion, but anyone who is not active duty must possess a license (but, again, exempted from the one-time state-sanctioned training).

I have no desire to take anyone's constituational right to bear firearms away, I simply want to insure that everyone who chooses to exercise this right know how to properly and safely use these firearms, both for his/her protection and mine.

As for the purchasing of individual weapons, if you're licensed and have the cash you can buy/own whatever you like as far as I'm concerned. Concerning the registration of individual weapons, I'm divided on this and haven't really come to a personal decision on that yet.

I'm sure folks will have tons of problems with my licensing ideas, but as far as I'm concerned if you're too lazy to be "inconvenienced" by a few hours of training to insure you know how to handle the weapon safely you shouldn't have it in the first place. We're not talking about toys here, and we're not talking about something that should be taken non-chalantly.

Just my humble opinion, and something I frankly don't forsee ever happening.

**Rausch** · 05-21-2001, 05:14 AM

I know this is quite the tired and over used argument, but isn't the problem the poor messed up kids USING the guns?

I am stealing this, but what videogames was John Wilkes Booth playing? Did Jack the Ripper watch too many A Team episodes? Did Rambo and the Terminator flicks cause Hitler to go Nazi?

NO...Some people got problems, and in today's society, less people care. Everyone has their own thing going on. I just thank God that between wrestling practice, tournaments, homework, school, running, lifting weights, working a part time job, doing household duties, having a minimal social life, and hormones; thank the good lord I didn't have some metal illness to push me over that ledge.

Soo much pressure is on kids these days I'm honestly not surprised that a few just snap...And that pressure has increased since the 6 years I've been out of high school.

Guns aren't the problem. Kids, crowded or uncaring school systems, half @$$ parenting, and increased pressure do this. Some psycho zit farm would walk inta' school smashing kids with a George Foreman Grill if that's all that's handy. Problem is us, not the inanimate objects....

47mack · 05-21-2001, 05:38 AM

Well said Brad

BowtieGuy · 05-21-2001, 06:59 AM

Both I and my wife are proud members of the NRA. And we are also both proud to have and use our concealed weapons permits.

Remember, the only way to protect the first Amendment is by first protecting the Second Amendment.

~Armed and Dangerous...

**Rausch** · 05-21-2001, 07:23 AM

And for the record, I'm NOT an NRA member OR a gun owner.

People who don't know how to properly use or take care of guns(like me :rolleyes: ) shouldn't own them.

So I practice the American way of preventing them from entering my home. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, DON'T BUY IT!

Somene has to kill me some deer, I wouldn't know where ta' look or what ta' do when I DID find one!

:D

BowtieGuy · 05-21-2001, 07:27 AM

I have a question for those who believe we should license our firearms.

Name a country, that after licensing guns, did not lose the right to own them?

I can name 3 countries, right off the top of my head, that bought into the licensing lie and have lost their right to own handguns and the majority of their other guns too.

Australia, UK, Canada. Just ask the owners there if we should license our guns...

~Armed and Dangerous...

Lightning Rod · 05-21-2001, 08:29 AM

If some person shoots, stabbs, bludggons, or runs over a loved one and they die as a result I will not blame the gun, knife, baseball bat or the car. I will not organize a million man march to register Louieville Sluggers. Likewise if I am being robbed and someone carring a firearm saves me I will not send a letter of thanks to Smith & Wesson. All the above are inanamate objects neither good nor bad. If the general public could grasp this one simple subject, maybe just maybe some intellegent discussion could be had in this debate.

Rod- Wondering why apartments are all stuck together, and common sense is anything but common?

bkkcoh · 05-21-2001, 09:40 AM

I bet the crime rate in KC goes down for the length of the NRA gathering. ;)

**AustinChief** · 05-21-2001, 10:28 AM

I am an adament supporter of the right to own a gun, and I heavily support allowing concealed handguns... but I DO believe in education. Unfortunately, there are too many people who don't have enough sense to be trusted owning a gun. Texas does a good job with their CHL laws. There is a required course and practical training that everyone must pass to get a license. I REALLY enjoyed the training (although most of it seemed a little obvious) and didn't see it as too much of an infringement on my rights... in leiu of "REQUIRING" training I would instead at least require a test... but the trade off in my opinion would be...
ONCE you have the license... no waiting periods, no extensive paperwork... it would make the process ALOT more streamlined...

AND most importantly... let the final decision rest in the hands of each state. The Constitution guarantees our rights... but the states are allowed to regulate this... as long as they do not DIRECTLY contradict the Constitution.

just my $.02

--Kyle

Rick Stephens · 05-21-2001, 01:50 PM

Last week Maryland Gov. Parris Glendening vetoed a bill which would have required K-12 students to receive gun safety training and education. If Glendening had signed it, Maryland would have become the first state in the country to require such training.

But the Gov. didn't sign it instead he chose to veto the bill, because he did not like the provision that allowed educators to bring some students out to gun ranges.

Heaven forbid we should teach our children proper firearm safety. But these same people want to teach sex education in our schools. I believe that all children should be taught proper firearm training because then they will learn to respect a weapon for what it is and what it can do.

Lightning Rod · 05-21-2001, 03:50 PM

FWIW OR FYI

1998 United States
Unintentional Injuries and Adverse Effects
Ages 18-65, All Races, Both Sexes
Total Deaths: 56,337
Cause of Death Deaths

MV Traffic 29,525

Poisoning 9,980
Fall 2,961
Drowning/submersion 2,621
Fire/burn 1,561
Transport, other 1,442
Suffocation 1,256
Unspecified 1,241
Other specified and classifiable 1,032
Medical Care, Adverse Effects 938
Natural/environmental 765
Struck by, against 733
Machinery 664
Pedestrian, other 615
Firearm 597

Drug, Adverse Effects 167

To be fair this is accidental deaths not homicides, the accidental deaths are the ones that get the really big press. The leading cuase of deaths in this age group BY FAR is Heart Disease, and Cancer.

BIG_DADDY · 05-21-2001, 09:52 PM

RCG,

Great post, I love stats. It takes the BS out of the Topic. 2.5 Million successful defensive gun uses average every year is impressive as well. It's funny how nobody ever talks about that. The good guns bring our society. It's like a taboo subject.

Tomahawk 11 · 05-21-2001, 10:06 PM

I would totally be for the education in the school system. Seems just like boating safety and driver's education. Going to the range is a blast.

With the training that I had, our range instructor talked to us about when we had kids. He said to fill a gallon milk jug with water and let your kids watch you shoot it. He thought that should teach them the respect.

I have to admit, I have been swayed by some of your opinions (that is abnormal for me). Not that I am going to run out and join the NRA or anything. I just would like to find a way to make it more safe for everyone. I am in no way for disarmin law abiding citizens. As far as felons go SCREW 'EM!

05-18-2001, 05:14 PM
BIG_DADDY THE RED MENACE Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Texas Casino cash: $3968410	As NRA convenes in KC Great article guys. Since I seem to be the only one that brings up this subject, I thought I would let someone else post this thread today but since nobody did today, here it is: [url]http://www.kcstar.com/item/pages/home.pat,local/3accae95.517,.html[/url] You guys must have some pride in having 40k NRA members meeting there in KC. I am a diehard gun rights fanatic and am intelligent enough to understand that the right to defend yourself and defend your country against tyranny is a fundamental human right each one of us has unless you are mentally ill. I am even for felons having the right to own guns after they have paid their debt to society and then proven they can be a productive member of it for say 5 years or so. Everything is a felony anymore and if they are doing the right things they should be able to defend themselves like anyone else. Out of the 30k deaths attributed to guns by the demorats only 3k are actually innocent victims of gun violence. There are also over 2.5 million successful defensive gun uses in this country every year. This combined with the citizenries right to protect the country against tyranny is overwhelmingly weighted twords gun rights. IMHO you have to be an idiot to buy into the crap the Demorats and liberal media have been selling. BTW, Yes, parents should be held accountable for their kids actions. BIG DADDY Hopes he isn't being too harsh. The ONLY right that is more important than the right to bear arms is the the right to free speech. Your thoughts? Anyone going?
Posts: 32,438

05-20-2001, 10:34 PM	#16
Rick Stephens #1 Chiefs Collector Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Garden Grove, California Casino cash: $10004900	Tomahawk 11, I think that any person who commits a school shooting of any type should be either put in prison for life or given the death penalty. No ifs ands or buts. I also believe that any one caught participating in a drive by shooting should suffer the same fate. I'll bet we would see a lot less of these types of crimes. We need to attack the problem of the individuals commiting the crimes not the guns. The courts are too easy on people who use firearms to commit crimes.
Posts: 291

05-21-2001, 03:29 AM	#17
47mack Lonestar Chief Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Sugarland, Texas (Houston) Casino cash: $10004900	[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Tomahawk 11 [/i] [B] I see your point to an extent. I just think that a license and small waiting period is of little issue in light of Columbine and the LA Bank robbery and such. [/B][/QUOTE] Requiring a license will do NOTHING. Many states can't enforce licensing a vehicle that is still being driven, much less a gun that is stored away in someone's home. There is no need for gun control. It will not lower the crime rate. It will only punish law abiding citizens. Putting a license on a gun and its owner will not stop another Columbine from happening. A justice system that will execute these freaks will. __________________ TWB "I would never do crack... I would never do a drug named after a part of my own ass, okay?" Denis Leary.
Posts: 899

05-21-2001, 05:12 AM	#18
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	Requiring someone to be licensed to carry a deadly weapon is not punishment by any stretch of the imagination in my humble opinion, no more than requiring someone to be licensed to drive a car. As a matter of fact, I would go so far as to promote mandatory education in order to get these licenses, including the basics behind firearm use and gun safety. It should be a system exactly like we have to gain a driver's licence (but unlike that system, it needs to be enforced seriously). It should be a one-time deal with state-by-state regulation (not federal...) with periodic renewal. Persons with a legitimate firearms background (military, police, etc.) should be exempt from the training portion, but anyone who is not active duty must possess a license (but, again, exempted from the one-time state-sanctioned training). I have no desire to take anyone's constituational right to bear firearms away, I simply want to insure that everyone who chooses to exercise this right know how to properly and safely use these firearms, both for his/her protection and mine. As for the purchasing of individual weapons, if you're licensed and have the cash you can buy/own whatever you like as far as I'm concerned. Concerning the registration of individual weapons, I'm divided on this and haven't really come to a personal decision on that yet. I'm sure folks will have tons of problems with my licensing ideas, but as far as I'm concerned if you're too lazy to be "inconvenienced" by a few hours of training to insure you know how to handle the weapon safely you shouldn't have it in the first place. We're not talking about toys here, and we're not talking about something that should be taken non-chalantly. Just my humble opinion, and something I frankly don't forsee ever happening.
Posts: 58,682

05-21-2001, 05:38 AM	#20
47mack Lonestar Chief Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Sugarland, Texas (Houston) Casino cash: $10004900	Well said Brad __________________ TWB "I would never do crack... I would never do a drug named after a part of my own ass, okay?" Denis Leary.
Posts: 899

05-21-2001, 06:59 AM	#21
BowtieGuy Starter Join Date: May 2001 Location: Boise, Idaho Casino cash: $10004900	SUPPORT YOUR SECOND AMENDMENT. SUPPORT THE NRA! Both I and my wife are proud members of the NRA. And we are also both proud to have and use our concealed weapons permits. Remember, the only way to protect the first Amendment is by first protecting the Second Amendment. ~Armed and Dangerous...
Posts: 34

05-21-2001, 07:27 AM	#23
BowtieGuy Starter Join Date: May 2001 Location: Boise, Idaho Casino cash: $10004900	Not now, not ever... I have a question for those who believe we should license our firearms. Name a country, that after licensing guns, did not lose the right to own them? I can name 3 countries, right off the top of my head, that bought into the licensing lie and have lost their right to own handguns and the majority of their other guns too. Australia, UK, Canada. Just ask the owners there if we should license our guns... ~Armed and Dangerous... Last edited by BowtieGuy; 05-21-2001 at 07:50 AM..
Posts: 34

05-21-2001, 08:29 AM	#24
Lightning Rod Need a new title Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Prairie Village Casino cash: $10004900	If some person shoots, stabbs, bludggons, or runs over a loved one and they die as a result I will not blame the gun, knife, baseball bat or the car. I will not organize a million man march to register Louieville Sluggers. Likewise if I am being robbed and someone carring a firearm saves me I will not send a letter of thanks to Smith & Wesson. All the above are inanamate objects neither good nor bad. If the general public could grasp this one simple subject, maybe just maybe some intellegent discussion could be had in this debate. Rod- Wondering why apartments are all stuck together, and common sense is anything but common?
Posts: 1,151

05-21-2001, 09:40 AM	#25
bkkcoh MVP Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Lewis Center, Ohio USA Casino cash: $9805595	I bet the crime rate in KC goes down for the length of the NRA gathering. ;) __________________ Brian K. Aspire to Inspire before you Expire
Posts: 5,506

05-21-2001, 10:28 AM	#26
AustinChief Administrator Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Austin Casino cash: $1405002	I am an adament supporter of the right to own a gun, and I heavily support allowing concealed handguns... but I DO believe in education. Unfortunately, there are too many people who don't have enough sense to be trusted owning a gun. Texas does a good job with their CHL laws. There is a required course and practical training that everyone must pass to get a license. I REALLY enjoyed the training (although most of it seemed a little obvious) and didn't see it as too much of an infringement on my rights... in leiu of "REQUIRING" training I would instead at least require a test... but the trade off in my opinion would be... ONCE you have the license... no waiting periods, no extensive paperwork... it would make the process ALOT more streamlined... AND most importantly... let the final decision rest in the hands of each state. The Constitution guarantees our rights... but the states are allowed to regulate this... as long as they do not DIRECTLY contradict the Constitution. just my $.02 --Kyle
Posts: 19,788

05-21-2001, 01:50 PM	#27
Rick Stephens #1 Chiefs Collector Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Garden Grove, California Casino cash: $10004900	Last week Maryland Gov. Parris Glendening vetoed a bill which would have required K-12 students to receive gun safety training and education. If Glendening had signed it, Maryland would have become the first state in the country to require such training. But the Gov. didn't sign it instead he chose to veto the bill, because he did not like the provision that allowed educators to bring some students out to gun ranges. Heaven forbid we should teach our children proper firearm safety. But these same people want to teach sex education in our schools. I believe that all children should be taught proper firearm training because then they will learn to respect a weapon for what it is and what it can do.
Posts: 291

05-21-2001, 03:50 PM	#28
Lightning Rod Need a new title Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Prairie Village Casino cash: $10004900	FWIW OR FYI 1998 United States Unintentional Injuries and Adverse Effects Ages 18-65, All Races, Both Sexes Total Deaths: 56,337 Cause of Death Deaths MV Traffic 29,525 Poisoning 9,980 Fall 2,961 Drowning/submersion 2,621 Fire/burn 1,561 Transport, other 1,442 Suffocation 1,256 Unspecified 1,241 Other specified and classifiable 1,032 Medical Care, Adverse Effects 938 Natural/environmental 765 Struck by, against 733 Machinery 664 Pedestrian, other 615 Firearm 597 Drug, Adverse Effects 167 To be fair this is accidental deaths not homicides, the accidental deaths are the ones that get the really big press. The leading cuase of deaths in this age group BY FAR is Heart Disease, and Cancer.
Posts: 1,151

05-21-2001, 09:52 PM	#29
BIG_DADDY THE RED MENACE Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Texas Casino cash: $3968410	RCG, Great post, I love stats. It takes the BS out of the Topic. 2.5 Million successful defensive gun uses average every year is impressive as well. It's funny how nobody ever talks about that. The good guns bring our society. It's like a taboo subject. __________________ The diabolical genius of Marxism-Socialism is that it provides the emotional and intellectual road map for autocrats to persuade millions of people to support their own enslavement to government. ~Mark Levin April 15, 2019
Posts: 32,438

05-21-2001, 10:06 PM	#30
Tomahawk 11 Starter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: 10-20? Casino cash: $10004900	I would totally be for the education in the school system. Seems just like boating safety and driver's education. Going to the range is a blast. With the training that I had, our range instructor talked to us about when we had kids. He said to fill a gallon milk jug with water and let your kids watch you shoot it. He thought that should teach them the respect. I have to admit, I have been swayed by some of your opinions (that is abnormal for me). Not that I am going to run out and join the NRA or anything. I just would like to find a way to make it more safe for everyone. I am in no way for disarmin law abiding citizens. As far as felons go SCREW 'EM! __________________ T-11. "Never mess with the bull youngman, you'll get the horns!"
Posts: 262