Chiefs Whitlock comes down on LJ hard, supports Waters - Page 2

Hammock Parties · 04-12-2009, 07:20 AM

Fat guys gotta stick together!

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chi...y/1137858.html

Chiefs need to get this right: Boot LJ, keep Waters

There’s no reason to believe Larry Johnson or his new agent.

The moody running back, in the pursuit of the remaining millions left on his contract, claims — through his agent — he wants nothing more than to be a productive runner for the Kansas City Chiefs in 2009.

He made the same claims before the start of the 2007 season, when he was trying to secure a lucrative contract extension. Carl Peterson fell for Johnson’s kind words and made Johnson the highest-paid Chief.

Scott Pioli should go ahead and release Johnson now. If somehow Kansas City’s new general manager is able to trade Johnson for anything — chinstrap, mouthpiece, blocking dummy, a jockstrap to be named later — Pioli would have to be an early candidate for NFL executive of the year.

Johnson has no trade value. He refuses to block. He’s an unreliable runner. He has a bad attitude. His best years are long gone. A team would be foolish to trade for Johnson.

Why not just wait for the Chiefs to release Johnson?

If the Chiefs hold on to Johnson and he makes their season-opening roster, which would re-guarantee his contract, then we’ll have our second legitimate reason to question the decision-making of the Chiefs’ new leadership.

For those of you with short memories, our first legitimate reason was Pioli and Todd Haley’s handling of their first meeting with Pro Bowl guard Brian Waters.

This is one of the most underplayed stories of the NFL offseason. Waters is Kansas City’s version of Jay Cutler. After brief and abrasive encounters with Pioli and Haley, Waters demanded his release from the Chiefs.

Obviously, Waters isn’t as high-profile as a Pro Bowl quarterback, so the national media have ignored his dissatisfaction.

But Waters’ troubles hint at a bigger trend: The arrogance of the young lieutenants coming off the Bill Belichick tree and whether they’ve made mistakes that damaged their new franchises.

Denver coach Josh McDaniels, the 32-year-old former Patriots offensive coordinator, cost the Broncos an in-his-prime franchise quarterback by foolishly attempting to trade for Matt Cassel.

Pioli, Belichick’s former right hand, may cost Kansas City its best lineman by foolishly implementing his my-way-or-the-highway approach to diplomacy. Pioli and Haley needlessly played rough with a valuable asset.

Of course, the whole thing could blow over during the offseason and Waters could return to his role as locker-room leader by training camp. But right now, we don’t know where the standoff stands. Waters represents himself and isn’t talking. Pioli and Haley don’t like to talk about sensitive issues.

We’re left to speculate.

Maybe the Chiefs could package Waters and Johnson in a draft-day trade, if there’s a player on the board in the second or third round that the club really likes.

It’s difficult for me to envision a scenario that would have Johnson on the Chiefs’ 2009 roster. It’s equally difficult for me to see Pioli taking the necessary, pride-swallowing steps to fix the team’s issue with Waters.

Brian Waters can be reasoned with. He’s a student of the game.

Don’t read anything into what I’m about to say. I have not talked with Brian Waters or anyone close to him recently. I’m basing my opinion on what I’ve learned about Brian over his nine years on the Chiefs.

He can be easily persuaded to get on board with what Pioli and Haley are trying to accomplish. Waters simply needs to be recruited and given the level of respect his consistent play and off-field professionalism demand.

Does Mike Vrabel’s success in New England dictate he gets more respect in Kansas City than Brian Waters? Not in my opinion.

According to Cassel’s statement to the media shortly after being traded to KC, Pioli had an open-door policy with players in New England. You got the impression Pioli liked to chat up key personnel and get them on board with the club’s philosophy.

His handling of Waters created the impression of a young person on an immature power trip. General managers don’t win football games. Good football players and coaches do. You do whatever is necessary to retain the good ones, and you dump the Larry Johnsons of the world the first chance you get.

B_Ambuehl · 04-12-2009, 11:21 AM

He's right about this though. Waters is looked up to probably more than any other player in that locker room and Haley has done nothing but come across like a primadona douchebag of epic proportions. How this turns out will go a long way in how the players feel about what's going on. All the talk about "bringing in leadership" from the outside is a bunch of bullshit. Vrabel and those guys are gonna be seen as a bunch of rats.

wild1 · 04-12-2009, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claythan

Waters has done more whining lately than Larry.

And guess which one showed up to offseason workouts?

I'll give you a hint: he had a body fat percentage under 20.

Guess which one is trying to look like a choir boy at the last minute, because he mouthed and pouted his way into a $3+ million pay cut?

I can't wait until that lazy, woman abusing quitter is gone.

dtebbe · 04-12-2009, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

Vrabel got shipped out as a freebie with the Cassel package, that's how much "respect" NE shows its veterans...and Fatlock expects Pioli to kiss the ass of a GUARD on the worst team in the league?

give me a ****ing break...if Waters is that big a pussy then get rid of him

Plus it's pretty much a known fact that Vrabel was a locker room dickhole.

DT

COchief · 04-12-2009, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtebbe

Plus it's pretty much a known fact that Vrabel was a locker room dickhole.

DT

Please elaborate, never heard anything about him. Also doesn't seem to be a part of the Patriot way.

Hammock Parties · 04-12-2009, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wild1

Guess which one is trying to look like a choir boy at the last minute

Please.

You can call Larry many things, but a liar is not one of them.

milkman · 04-12-2009, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claythan

Please.

You can call Larry many things, but a liar is not one of them.

Yeah, cause there's no way that he didn't have a sudden epiphany and realized how much he wants to stay in KC just cause he loves it so much.

Never mind about the money.

wild1 · 04-12-2009, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claythan

Please.

You can call Larry many things, but a liar is not one of them.

Why should I believe he is a person of high moral character when everything I know about him says otherwise?

**the Talking Can** · 04-12-2009, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claythan

Please.

You can call Larry many things, but a liar is not one of them.

the guy's whole life is a ****ing lie

KCinNY · 04-12-2009, 12:26 PM

Veteran team leaders on a 2-14 joke are worthless.

Veteran team leaders who sport multiple rings have at least some value.

Hammock Parties · 04-12-2009, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wild1

Why should I believe he is a person of high moral character when everything I know about him says otherwise?

Do you think an asshole would stay to sign autographs for EVERY fan after routine training camp practices?

Do you think an asshole would do this?

We know Larry Johnson has problems. But to suggest he is dishonest is just mean-spirited.

**kysirsoze** · 04-12-2009, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claythan

Please.

You can call Larry many things, but a liar is not one of them.

What the hell are you basing this on?

Fine, I will call him something else. Greedy. I loved in Hard Knocks when they interviewed Larry and he said a bunch of crap about how it's not about the money. It's respect. Blah Blah. Then it shows him in a store and a guy asks him if he's going to be in camp and he says something to the effect of, 'sure, as soon as I get my money.' Then they laugh and slap hands.

Sure, he wants to be a good little Chief and work real hard... until he gets his money.

**kysirsoze** · 04-12-2009, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claythan

Do you think an asshole would stay to sign autographs for EVERY fan after routine training camp practices?

Do you think an asshole would do this?

We know Larry Johnson has problems. But to suggest he is dishonest is just mean-spirited.

Because there's no ego stroke whatsoever in fans lining up to worship him. Especially when most of the fan base is alienated by his behavior on and off the field.

Hammock Parties · 04-12-2009, 12:53 PM

Quite frankly, he was owed money.

If he hadn't gotten that contract he likely would never have received a big payday given how badly Herm ****ed up the offense, ruining LJ's prime years.

Larry Johnson has earned every penny. He'll be the all-time leading rusher in Chiefs history quite shortly.

wild1 · 04-12-2009, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claythan

Do you think an asshole would stay to sign autographs for EVERY fan after routine training camp practices?

Do you think an asshole would do this?

We know Larry Johnson has problems. But to suggest he is dishonest is just mean-spirited.

Good thing those aren't girls old enough to get into The Drink, or he'd be slapping them around

Hammock Parties · 04-12-2009, 12:57 PM

I think we've all made mistakes when under the influence.

At least Larry isn't pissing on anyone.

04-12-2009, 07:20 AM
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $4220478	Whitlock comes down on LJ hard, supports Waters Fat guys gotta stick together! http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chi...y/1137858.html Chiefs need to get this right: Boot LJ, keep Waters There’s no reason to believe Larry Johnson or his new agent. The moody running back, in the pursuit of the remaining millions left on his contract, claims — through his agent — he wants nothing more than to be a productive runner for the Kansas City Chiefs in 2009. He made the same claims before the start of the 2007 season, when he was trying to secure a lucrative contract extension. Carl Peterson fell for Johnson’s kind words and made Johnson the highest-paid Chief. Scott Pioli should go ahead and release Johnson now. If somehow Kansas City’s new general manager is able to trade Johnson for anything — chinstrap, mouthpiece, blocking dummy, a jockstrap to be named later — Pioli would have to be an early candidate for NFL executive of the year. Johnson has no trade value. He refuses to block. He’s an unreliable runner. He has a bad attitude. His best years are long gone. A team would be foolish to trade for Johnson. Why not just wait for the Chiefs to release Johnson? If the Chiefs hold on to Johnson and he makes their season-opening roster, which would re-guarantee his contract, then we’ll have our second legitimate reason to question the decision-making of the Chiefs’ new leadership. For those of you with short memories, our first legitimate reason was Pioli and Todd Haley’s handling of their first meeting with Pro Bowl guard Brian Waters. This is one of the most underplayed stories of the NFL offseason. Waters is Kansas City’s version of Jay Cutler. After brief and abrasive encounters with Pioli and Haley, Waters demanded his release from the Chiefs. Obviously, Waters isn’t as high-profile as a Pro Bowl quarterback, so the national media have ignored his dissatisfaction. But Waters’ troubles hint at a bigger trend: The arrogance of the young lieutenants coming off the Bill Belichick tree and whether they’ve made mistakes that damaged their new franchises. Denver coach Josh McDaniels, the 32-year-old former Patriots offensive coordinator, cost the Broncos an in-his-prime franchise quarterback by foolishly attempting to trade for Matt Cassel. Pioli, Belichick’s former right hand, may cost Kansas City its best lineman by foolishly implementing his my-way-or-the-highway approach to diplomacy. Pioli and Haley needlessly played rough with a valuable asset. Of course, the whole thing could blow over during the offseason and Waters could return to his role as locker-room leader by training camp. But right now, we don’t know where the standoff stands. Waters represents himself and isn’t talking. Pioli and Haley don’t like to talk about sensitive issues. We’re left to speculate. Maybe the Chiefs could package Waters and Johnson in a draft-day trade, if there’s a player on the board in the second or third round that the club really likes. It’s difficult for me to envision a scenario that would have Johnson on the Chiefs’ 2009 roster. It’s equally difficult for me to see Pioli taking the necessary, pride-swallowing steps to fix the team’s issue with Waters. Brian Waters can be reasoned with. He’s a student of the game. Don’t read anything into what I’m about to say. I have not talked with Brian Waters or anyone close to him recently. I’m basing my opinion on what I’ve learned about Brian over his nine years on the Chiefs. He can be easily persuaded to get on board with what Pioli and Haley are trying to accomplish. Waters simply needs to be recruited and given the level of respect his consistent play and off-field professionalism demand. Does Mike Vrabel’s success in New England dictate he gets more respect in Kansas City than Brian Waters? Not in my opinion. According to Cassel’s statement to the media shortly after being traded to KC, Pioli had an open-door policy with players in New England. You got the impression Pioli liked to chat up key personnel and get them on board with the club’s philosophy. His handling of Waters created the impression of a young person on an immature power trip. General managers don’t win football games. Good football players and coaches do. You do whatever is necessary to retain the good ones, and you dump the Larry Johnsons of the world the first chance you get.
Posts: 279,478

04-12-2009, 11:21 AM	#16
B_Ambuehl Veteran Join Date: Apr 2005 Casino cash: $9805405	He's right about this though. Waters is looked up to probably more than any other player in that locker room and Haley has done nothing but come across like a primadona douchebag of epic proportions. How this turns out will go a long way in how the players feel about what's going on. All the talk about "bringing in leadership" from the outside is a bunch of bullshit. Vrabel and those guys are gonna be seen as a bunch of rats.
Posts: 2,605

04-12-2009, 12:26 PM	#24
KCinNY Chiefs Goon Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Center Ice Casino cash: $10008350	Veteran team leaders on a 2-14 joke are worthless. Veteran team leaders who sport multiple rings have at least some value. __________________ We must sacrifice the one they call "True Fan."
Posts: 1,497

04-12-2009, 12:53 PM	#28
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $4220478	Quite frankly, he was owed money. If he hadn't gotten that contract he likely would never have received a big payday given how badly Herm ****ed up the offense, ruining LJ's prime years. Larry Johnson has earned every penny. He'll be the all-time leading rusher in Chiefs history quite shortly. __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 279,478

04-12-2009, 12:57 PM	#30
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $4220478	I think we've all made mistakes when under the influence. At least Larry isn't pissing on anyone. __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 279,478