Chiefs The formerdb / Filmroom QB theory with facts even - Page 2

milkman · 08-01-2012, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

I can't respect anything the guy posts anymore after that mind-numbingly stupid display.

Never go full reerun.

The thing is, no one was calling Tom Brady an elite QB after his first SB, and even after winning 3 SBs, he was still behind Peyton Manning, and hell, Brett Favre in most people's minds.

It wasn't until he started putting up elite numbers that he began to achieve the same level in most minds as Peyton Manning, and he hasn't won a SB in those years.

It wasn't until the last couple of years of active play for Peyton Manning that most people began to question his playoff record.

Until then, he was, in the opinion of many, if not most, on his way to greatest QB ever.

Hell, people today still think that he's tier or 2 above his brother, who has shown up and made the plays in the playoffs that Peyton has failed to make.

formerdb goes a bit overboard here, but his point does have merit.

Marcellus · 08-01-2012, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

The thing is, no one was calling Tom Brady an elite QB after his first SB, and even after winning 3 SBs, he was still behind Peyton Manning, and hell, Brett Favre in most people's minds.

It wasn't until he started putting up elite numbers that he began to achieve the same level in most minds as Peyton Manning, and he hasn't won a SB in those years.

It wasn't until the last couple of years of active play for Peyton Manning that most people began to question his playoff record.

Until then, he was, in the opinion of many, if not most, on his way to greatest QB ever.

Hell, people today still think that he's tier or 2 above his brother, who has shown up and made the plays in the playoffs that Peyton has failed to make.

formerdb goes a bit overboard here, but his point does have merit.

His point that you don't have to have a top 10 offense to win a SB is not in contrast to your point that the QB still has to make some plays in key situations.

Some people can't comprehend the difference.

Either case we are still at a distinct disadvantage with Cassel.

milkman · 08-01-2012, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus

His point that you don't have to have a top 10 offense to win a SB is not in contrast to your point that the QB still has to make some plays in key situations.

Some people can't comprehend the difference.

Either case we are still at a distinct disadvantage with Cassel.

His point that this is not a QB driven league is in contrast to mine, however.

You don't need a QB to put up big numbers, but you do need a QB that can make plays.

Without that, you aren't winning jack.

This is a QB driven league.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 08-01-2012, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

The thing is, no one was calling Tom Brady an elite QB after his first SB, and even after winning 3 SBs, he was still behind Peyton Manning, and hell, Brett Favre in most people's minds.

It wasn't until he started putting up elite numbers that he began to achieve the same level in most minds as Peyton Manning, and he hasn't won a SB in those years.

It wasn't until the last couple of years of active play for Peyton Manning that most people began to question his playoff record.

Until then, he was, in the opinion of many, if not most, on his way to greatest QB ever.

Hell, people today still think that he's tier or 2 above his brother, who has shown up and made the plays in the playoffs that Peyton has failed to make.

formerdb goes a bit overboard here, but his point does have merit.

No, it really doesn't.

He's using stats and examples dating back to the early 2000's - the league has just recently (within last 5 years, IMO) become a QB driven, pass-happy league.

Brady hasn't won a SB since he became "elite" - this is 100% factual.

How many times has he taken his team to the Super Bowl in this time frame? Twice in 5 years.

It's completely disingenuous to use "evidence" from 2001 to attempt to support a point about how football is being played now.

milkman · 08-01-2012, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

No, it really doesn't.

He's using stats and examples dating back to the early 2000's - the league has just recently (within last 5 years, IMO) become a QB driven, pass-happy league.

Brady hasn't won a SB since he became "elite" - this is 100% factual.

How many times has he taken his team to the Super Bowl in this time frame? Twice in 5 years.

It's completely disingenuous to use "evidence" from 2001 to attempt to support a point about how football is being played now.

Even before all the rules changes, this has been a QB driven league.

SB winners.

Starr, Namath, Dawson, Unitas, Griese, Bradshaw, etc....

The Jim McMahans, Trent Dilfers and Brad Johnsons have always been the exception.

But SBs are won each and every year by the most complete teams.

**DaneMcCloud** · 08-01-2012, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

I can't respect anything the guy posts anymore after that mind-numbingly stupid display.

Never go full reerun.

He used to provide some insight here from time to time but that was like back around 2000-2003 or so, IIRC.

But this is insanity.

Titty Meat · 08-01-2012, 10:01 AM

I don't give a shit what some guy on twitter post. He's not a scout but pretends to be one.

durtyrute · 08-01-2012, 10:04 AM

Well, then it's a good thing we DON'T have an elite QB.

milkman · 08-01-2012, 10:08 AM

I've banged this drum over and over again.

I've defined "Franchise QB" as a guy that makes plays when plays need to be made.

You don't need a QB to put up 4 or 5 thousand yards.

You need a QB that steps up when the game is on the line.

The one commonality about all of the last 10 or 12 SB winners, from Kurt Warner to Ben Roethlisberger to Eli Manning, is those QBs all stepped up and made plays when it mattered most.

King_Chief_Fan · 08-01-2012, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

I've banged this drum over and over again.

I've defined "Franchise QB" as a guy that makes plays when plays need to be made.

You don't need a QB to put up 4 or 5 thousand yards.

You need a QB that steps up when the game is on the line.

The one commonality about all of the last 10 or 12 SB winners, from Kurt Warner to Ben Roethlisberger to Eli Manning, is those QBs all stepped up and made plays when it mattered most.

indeed

**Easy 6** · 11-09-2012, 07:14 PM

What i took from this is that it IS a QB driven league, you HAVE to have a good one in this age.

But he cant do it all, the defense HAS to be very solid or he wont win a shootout with an opposing top QB in the playoffs.

Look at Manning, he slayed'em for years in indy, winning records every year, playoffs every year... but they (almost) always lost in the playoffs because the D was all speedy finesse and no meat.

Gotta have a good defense.

Pasta Little Brioni · 11-09-2012, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scott free

What i took from this is that it IS a QB driven league, you HAVE to have a good one in this age.

But he cant do it all, the defense HAS to be very solid or he wont win a shootout with an opposing top QB in the playoffs.

Look at Manning, he slayed'em for years in indy, winning records every year, playoffs every year... but they (almost) always lost in the playoffs because the D was all speedy finesse and no meat.

Gotta have a good defense.

You'll see the same in Pile High this year. They just can't compete with the big boys.

**Easy 6** · 11-09-2012, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PGM

You'll see the same in Pile High this year. They just can't compete with the big boys.

The deeper the water gets, the sooner we'll see the drowning of the Duck of Death.

**Rausch** · 08-01-2012, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

The one commonality about all of the last 10 or 12 SB winners, from Kurt Warner to Ben Roethlisberger to Eli Manning, is those QBs all stepped up and made plays when it mattered most.

This.

It's the IT factor.

No one cares how many yards you threw for if you come up short.

It's the ability to be calm and know exactly how you're going to go 60 yards to a win.

**morphius** · 08-01-2012, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

I've banged this drum over and over again.

I've defined "Franchise QB" as a guy that makes plays when plays need to be made.

You don't need a QB to put up 4 or 5 thousand yards.

You need a QB that steps up when the game is on the line.

The one commonality about all of the last 10 or 12 SB winners, from Kurt Warner to Ben Roethlisberger to Eli Manning, is those QBs all stepped up and made plays when it mattered most.

yeah, and what you don't want is the guy that gets to 4th and goal and doesn't even try to force the ball in for a TD...

08-01-2012, 10:01 AM	#7
Titty Meat Inmem 2.0 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: My house Casino cash: $1727558	I don't give a shit what some guy on twitter post. He's not a scout but pretends to be one.
Posts: 75,656

08-01-2012, 10:04 AM	#8
durtyrute MVP Join Date: Mar 2011 Casino cash: $7836085	Well, then it's a good thing we DON'T have an elite QB.
Posts: 5,831

08-01-2012, 10:08 AM	#9
milkman Dumbass! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Leading the Marty bashing Casino cash: $10029395	I've banged this drum over and over again. I've defined "Franchise QB" as a guy that makes plays when plays need to be made. You don't need a QB to put up 4 or 5 thousand yards. You need a QB that steps up when the game is on the line. The one commonality about all of the last 10 or 12 SB winners, from Kurt Warner to Ben Roethlisberger to Eli Manning, is those QBs all stepped up and made plays when it mattered most. __________________
Posts: 70,769

11-09-2012, 07:14 PM	#11
Easy 6 pie is never free Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: the drivers seat Casino cash: $3177775	What i took from this is that it IS a QB driven league, you HAVE to have a good one in this age. But he cant do it all, the defense HAS to be very solid or he wont win a shootout with an opposing top QB in the playoffs. Look at Manning, he slayed'em for years in indy, winning records every year, playoffs every year... but they (almost) always lost in the playoffs because the D was all speedy finesse and no meat. Gotta have a good defense.
Posts: 92,275