NFL Draft Three-cone drill standouts amongst passrushers at the Combine. - Page 2

Direckshun · 03-05-2014, 09:10 AM

The Combine is well known as the Underwear Olympics, and scouts and GMs regularly say they don't give two shits about it unless they have two players rated the exact same.

Almost everybody agrees, however, that one of the few things the Combine does usefully provide is the three-cone drill for passrushers.

This is a great exercise where passrushers both in the 4-3 and 3-4 have to show they can "bend the edge" at the NFL level and get to the QB in record time.

Amongst all the passrushers at the Combine (and I'm going to include Dee Ford's Pro Day from yesterday, because America), here's the folks that had the elite times:

1. Tyler Starr out of ****ing South Dakota, of all places, slaughtered everybody this year with a 6.64. He's tailored to be pretty much only a 3-4 OLB in the draft at 6'4", 240 lbs. His 4.9 40 was horrendous. He put up 9 sacks, 15 TFL, 4 FF, 71 tackles, 1 INT, and 4 PD in 2013 against admittedly inferior competition. (It should be noted, and I know people hate this, but 6 of those 9 sacks came in three games.) Nonetheless, that 3 cone time is going to get him drafted, much like Junior Hemingway's got him drafted by Pioli.

2 .Trent Murphy has been a borderline 1st/2nd round prospect out of Stanford, and I gotta think his #2 time of 6.78 will push him into the 1st round. Murphy only ran a 4.8 in the 40, but he led college football in sacks in 2013 with 15. Murphy is 6'5", 250 lbs, and is more of a 3-4 OLB, though he could convert to 4-3 DE.

3. Anthony Barr of UCLA has projected as a Top 15 pick at this point, and his 6.82 will only solidify that. 20 TFL, 10 sacks, 5 FF, 62 tackles. He is a pure 3-4 OLB, and can play in the 4-3 in the Derrick Thomas/Von Miller role at OLB. He blazed a 4.6 in the 40, and has ideal size at 6'5", 255 lbs.

4. Kony Ealy was a surprise on this list, essentially tying with Barr with a 6.83. Ealy is well known around these parts, but only projects to 4-3 DE -- doesn't seem to have the power to play at 3-4 DE, and doesn't seem to have the linebacker-esque athleticism needed as a 3-4 OLB, but hey, we all said that about Hali. He ran a terrible 4.9 in the 40, but we all know his statline here: 8 sacks, 14 TFL, constant disruption. He's got to be at the top of the list for 4-3 defenses needing a passrusher. Outside chance he lasts to the Chiefs pick at 23.

5. Jackson Jeffcoat out of Texas is on this list, which surprises nobody. Jeffcoat, interestingly, has been slipping down draft boards due to his "lack of size" which, well, 6'3" 247 isn't that bad for a 3-4 OLB, but that's all the guy can really be. He had a really good season with 12 sacks, 21 TFL, and led his team in tackles with 80. He also blazed one of the fastest 40s in the Combine for passrushers with a 4.6. At this point he is just a passrushing specialist, and will need grooming to round out his game, but is a really promising athlete.

6. Dee Ford is a pure 3-4 OLB out of Auburn, who is rising fast on draft boards, mine in particular (where I have him neck-and-neck with Brandin Cooks as my favorites picks for the Chiefs at #23). His 7.06 at his Pro Day should only help. There is no doubting that he's a great athlete, though undersized at 6'2", 244. He ran a 4.5 at Auburn's Pro Day, but Auburn has a fast track -- but even adjusting it to a 4.6 is damn impressive. 10.5 sacks, 14.5 TFL, but only 29 tackles and very much a one-year wonder.

7-tie. Cassius Marsh was the super-weird looking tatted-up guy at the Combine from UCLA, if you watched it, and he looked super iffy to me in the DL drills. But it's hard to argue with a 7.08 in the three-cone. Even though he's got 3-4 OLB size at 6'4", 252 lbs, he's got versatility playing out of a three-point and two-point, and his 4.8 40 suggests he may be more of a 4-3 DE. Bit of a tweener, if you will... Marsh's problem is primarily an inconsistent motor, and his 5 sacks and 8.5 TFL was underwhelming in 2013. He's going to be a late-rounder for somebody to develop. The question is, how much of his production came because everybody focused on his teammate across from him...

7-tie. Khalil Mack out of Buffalo is, as some have already noted on this forum, a force of nature. His 7.08 confirms that, but you only really need to watch Mack's tape to see what a disruptive player he is. He ran a 4.6 at the Combine, but some scouts timed him at a 4.4 at yesterday's Pro Day. In other words, he's ridiculous. At 6'3", 251 lbs, he seems to purely be a 3-4 OLB, but there's no reason a team in any defense won't try to take him. Outside of Clowney, he's the best defensive player in this draft.

9. Aaron Donald of Pitt is not an edge rusher, so he shouldn't be on this list, but **** it. I'm including him, because he's incredible. An undersized DT at 6'0", 285, he'll be an awkward fit anywhere, but holy shit did he kill the 3-cone with a 7.11. That is a fantastic time for a guy his size. Get these stats: 28.5 TFL, 11 sacks, 16 QB hurries, 4 FF and a blocked extra point. This guy is outstanding, and somebody in the Top 20 will make space for him. I'm guessing Dallas.

10. Howard Jones out of some school called Shepherd impressed everybody at the Combine, and absolutely will be drafted, probably somewhere around the late rounds, because he looks like somebody you could develop. He ran a 4.60 (some sites suggest he could run much faster...), with a 40" vertical, over a 10' broad jump, and a 7.16 in the 3 cone. He has a lot of room to pack on his frame, so the fact that he only came in at 6'2", 235 lbs is not going to scare a 3-4 team away from drafting him and essentially redshirting him for a year. He had a pretty weak statline against inferior competition, with only 6.5 sacks in 2013. In the 7th round, teams like drafting nobodies with measurable who could make them look like geniuses, and Jones looks like that kind of guy.

htismaqe · 03-05-2014, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteWhale

Yeah I guess. I don't think Curry's failure was because he lacked athleticism though, so I'm not really sure that's a great example.

The combine often causes great players like Flowers, Boldin, or even Tamba Hali to fall.

I don't think it's worthless, but it is what it is. Know how to interpret it. In reality drafting players is more of a crap shoot than most want to admit.

It's certainly not foolproof but I'm sure there are trends if you actually studied the results the way NFL teams do.

Like you said, sometimes guys with great college film fall due to poor combine results. But there are also cases where guys with equally good college film have different results at the combine and go on to have very different levels of production in the NFL.

You're absolutely correct with the "know how to interpret it" comment. I don't think many of us truly know how to interpret it. Of course, a lot of NFL teams don't either or the draft would be far less of a crap shoot...

**The Franchise** · 03-05-2014, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldSchool

He did run faster than a lot of the LB prospects, lol. He moved really smoothly too. Imagine if Donald dropped about 20 pounds and moved to the outside, even faster and more explosive with a little less power but the same relentlessness.

At this point....I'm viewing him more as a DE than I am as a DT. I think he'd be more dangerous on the outside of the line with the one on one matchups than putting him in the middle and letting him get double teamed constantly.

Direckshun · 03-05-2014, 10:44 AM

He'd be pretty perfect as a DE in our 3-4. Don't even care if he's undersized. He'd be perfect.

WhiteWhale · 03-05-2014, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

It's certainly not foolproof but I'm sure there are trends if you actually studied the results the way NFL teams do.

Like you said, sometimes guys with great college film fall due to poor combine results. But there are also cases where guys with equally good college film have different results at the combine and go on to have very different levels of production in the NFL.

You're absolutely correct with the "know how to interpret it" comment. I don't think many of us truly know how to interpret it. Of course, a lot of NFL teams don't either or the draft would be far less of a crap shoot...

So much is tied to a player's mentality. How much do they want to be great? Some guys have obsessive personalities that lead them to relentless study and preparation. Some guys just coast. They're so coached up by agents that they all basically give the same canned responses now.

What I'm saying is that you can't scout what makes Tamba Hali so good. He's relentless, smart, and always trying to get better. Todd Haley once said that Tamba is the easiest guy on the team to find. You just follow the trail of sweat and he'll be at the end of it.

I think the combine has value for sure. I never have and never will WATCH it because it has no entertainment value for me (the numbers are enough) but I'm surprised any KC fan could call it worthless after we basically hit the jackpot on a combine wunderkid.

Direckshun · 03-05-2014, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteWhale

Todd Haley once said that Tamba is the easiest guy on the team to find. You just follow the trail of sweat and he'll be at the end of it.

Please tell me that's an actual quote. That is great.

Brock · 03-05-2014, 10:48 AM

Jackson Jeffcoat sounds awfully familiar.

htismaqe · 03-05-2014, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteWhale

So much is tied to a player's mentality. How much do they want to be great? Some guys have obsessive personalities that lead them to relentless study and preparation. Some guys just coast. They're so coached up by agents that they all basically give the same canned responses now.

Well they do have extensive interviews both at the combine and at pro days. That can be assessed to at least some extent. Like you said though, it's almost like a lie detector test - agents coach these guys extensively to get through the interview process. But it's not completely useless - by all accounts Geno Smith represented himself somewhat poorly during the interview process and he fell sharply in the draft. I would seem after this past season, his draft position was probably well deserved.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteWhale

What I'm saying is that you can't scout what makes Tamba Hali so good. He's relentless, smart, and always trying to get better. Todd Haley once said that Tamba is the easiest guy on the team to find. You just follow the trail of sweat and he'll be at the end of it.

To a certain extent you can get that from talking to the guys college coaches, rather than the guy himself. Coming out, you know who was raving about Tamba Hali? Larry Johnson Sr.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteWhale

I think the combine has value for sure. I never have and never will WATCH it because it has no entertainment value for me (the numbers are enough) but I'm surprised any KC fan could call it worthless after we basically hit the jackpot on a combine wunderkid.

Totally agree with you. No combine = no Poe.

**The Franchise** · 03-05-2014, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun

He'd be pretty perfect as a DE in our 3-4. Don't even care if he's undersized. He'd be perfect.

I don't think he makes it past Dallas at 16. They're going to need all the defensive line help they can get.

htismaqe · 03-05-2014, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock

Jackson Jeffcoat sounds awfully familiar.

Son of Dallas Cowboy great Jim Jeffcoat.

Direckshun · 03-05-2014, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pestilence

I don't think he makes it past Dallas at 16. They're going to need all the defensive line help they can get.

He absolutely won't last to us. And I don't think we're going to be in the market for a DE, either. From the sounds of it we're going to either bring back TJax or sign a replacement.

Direckshun · 03-05-2014, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Well they do have extensive interviews both at the combine and at pro days. That can be assessed to at least some extent. Like you said though, it's almost like a lie detector test - agents coach these guys extensively to get through the interview process. But it's not completely useless - by all accounts Geno Smith represented himself somewhat poorly during the interview process and he fell sharply in the draft. I would seem after this past season, his draft position was probably well deserved.

For what it's worth, reportedly by far the best interviewee all week at the Combine was Derek Carr.

Expect him to go in the 1st, higher than he should, because a team absolutely thinks he's perfect between-the-ears.

**The Franchise** · 03-05-2014, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun

For what it's worth, reportedly by far the best interviewee all week at the Combine was Derek Carr.

Expect him to go in the 1st, higher than he should, because a team absolutely thinks he's perfect between-the-ears.

And I'm really hoping that Cleveland goes any position other than QB with their 1st round pick and then trades up to #23 to grab Carr from #26. Or maybe the Vikings want to trade back into the 1st, leapfrog Cleveland and take Carr.

WhiteWhale · 03-05-2014, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun

Please tell me that's an actual quote. That is great.

Paraphrased.

I also remember him saying something about 'there I saw a pool of sweat the size of a small lake, and I knew Tamba had been there."

Again, paraphrased.

Chief Roundup · 03-05-2014, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

Is there anything more useless in professional sports than the NFL combine?

I can understand a person getting tired of hearing about the process every year. The hype that surrounds the Combine is over the top.
But I have to say useless, the NFL Combine is not. It is the only time that there is this many players in one place at one time. A team can send reps. to one place then measure and meet with up to 300 players, depending on the year.
How many of these players from lesser colleges would not even have a pro day? If it were not for the combine a lot of these players might not even have the opportunity to be seen or heard of by an NFL team let alone making an NFL team.

OldSchool · 03-05-2014, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pestilence

At this point....I'm viewing him more as a DE than I am as a DT. I think he'd be more dangerous on the outside of the line with the one on one matchups than putting him in the middle and letting him get double teamed constantly.

Depends who else you have in the middle with him. If he lines up next to Poe in our "sub-packages" who the hell are they going to double team?

03-05-2014, 09:10 AM
Direckshun __ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Springpatch Casino cash: $4153447	Three-cone drill standouts amongst passrushers at the Combine. The Combine is well known as the Underwear Olympics, and scouts and GMs regularly say they don't give two shits about it unless they have two players rated the exact same. Almost everybody agrees, however, that one of the few things the Combine does usefully provide is the three-cone drill for passrushers. This is a great exercise where passrushers both in the 4-3 and 3-4 have to show they can "bend the edge" at the NFL level and get to the QB in record time. Amongst all the passrushers at the Combine (and I'm going to include Dee Ford's Pro Day from yesterday, because America), here's the folks that had the elite times: 1. Tyler Starr out of **ing South Dakota, of all places, slaughtered everybody this year with a 6.64. He's tailored to be pretty much only a 3-4 OLB in the draft at 6'4", 240 lbs. His 4.9 40 was horrendous. He put up 9 sacks, 15 TFL, 4 FF, 71 tackles, 1 INT, and 4 PD in 2013 against admittedly inferior competition. (It should be noted, and I know people hate this, but 6 of those 9 sacks came in three games.) Nonetheless, that 3 cone time is going to get him drafted, much like Junior Hemingway's got him drafted by Pioli. 2 .Trent Murphy has been a borderline 1st/2nd round prospect out of Stanford, and I gotta think his #2 time of 6.78 will push him into the 1st round. Murphy only ran a 4.8 in the 40, but he led college football in sacks in 2013 with 15. Murphy is 6'5", 250 lbs, and is more of a 3-4 OLB, though he could convert to 4-3 DE. 3. Anthony Barr of UCLA has projected as a Top 15 pick at this point, and his 6.82 will only solidify that. 20 TFL, 10 sacks, 5 FF, 62 tackles. He is a pure 3-4 OLB, and can play in the 4-3 in the Derrick Thomas/Von Miller role at OLB. He blazed a 4.6 in the 40, and has ideal size at 6'5", 255 lbs. 4. Kony Ealy was a surprise on this list, essentially tying with Barr with a 6.83. Ealy is well known around these parts, but only projects to 4-3 DE -- doesn't seem to have the power to play at 3-4 DE, and doesn't seem to have the linebacker-esque athleticism needed as a 3-4 OLB, but hey, we all said that about Hali. He ran a terrible 4.9 in the 40, but we all know his statline here: 8 sacks, 14 TFL, constant disruption. He's got to be at the top of the list for 4-3 defenses needing a passrusher. Outside chance he lasts to the Chiefs pick at 23. 5. Jackson Jeffcoat** out of Texas is on this list, which surprises nobody. Jeffcoat, interestingly, has been slipping down draft boards due to his "lack of size" which, well, 6'3" 247 isn't that bad for a 3-4 OLB, but that's all the guy can really be. He had a really good season with 12 sacks, 21 TFL, and led his team in tackles with 80. He also blazed one of the fastest 40s in the Combine for passrushers with a 4.6. At this point he is just a passrushing specialist, and will need grooming to round out his game, but is a really promising athlete. 6. Dee Ford is a pure 3-4 OLB out of Auburn, who is rising fast on draft boards, mine in particular (where I have him neck-and-neck with Brandin Cooks as my favorites picks for the Chiefs at #23). His 7.06 at his Pro Day should only help. There is no doubting that he's a great athlete, though undersized at 6'2", 244. He ran a 4.5 at Auburn's Pro Day, but Auburn has a fast track -- but even adjusting it to a 4.6 is damn impressive. 10.5 sacks, 14.5 TFL, but only 29 tackles and very much a one-year wonder. 7-tie. Cassius Marsh was the super-weird looking tatted-up guy at the Combine from UCLA, if you watched it, and he looked super iffy to me in the DL drills. But it's hard to argue with a 7.08 in the three-cone. Even though he's got 3-4 OLB size at 6'4", 252 lbs, he's got versatility playing out of a three-point and two-point, and his 4.8 40 suggests he may be more of a 4-3 DE. Bit of a tweener, if you will... Marsh's problem is primarily an inconsistent motor, and his 5 sacks and 8.5 TFL was underwhelming in 2013. He's going to be a late-rounder for somebody to develop. The question is, how much of his production came because everybody focused on his teammate across from him... 7-tie. Khalil Mack out of Buffalo is, as some have already noted on this forum, a force of nature. His 7.08 confirms that, but you only really need to watch Mack's tape to see what a disruptive player he is. He ran a 4.6 at the Combine, but some scouts timed him at a 4.4 at yesterday's Pro Day. In other words, he's ridiculous. At 6'3", 251 lbs, he seems to purely be a 3-4 OLB, but there's no reason a team in any defense won't try to take him. Outside of Clowney, he's the best defensive player in this draft. 9. Aaron Donald of Pitt is not an edge rusher, so he shouldn't be on this list, but ** it. I'm including him, because he's incredible. An undersized DT at 6'0", 285, he'll be an awkward fit anywhere, but holy shit did he kill the 3-cone with a 7.11. That is a fantastic time for a guy his size. Get these stats: 28.5 TFL, 11 sacks, 16 QB hurries, 4 FF and a blocked extra point. This guy is outstanding, and somebody in the Top 20 will make space for him. I'm guessing Dallas. 10. Howard Jones** out of some school called Shepherd impressed everybody at the Combine, and absolutely will be drafted, probably somewhere around the late rounds, because he looks like somebody you could develop. He ran a 4.60 (some sites suggest he could run much faster...), with a 40" vertical, over a 10' broad jump, and a 7.16 in the 3 cone. He has a lot of room to pack on his frame, so the fact that he only came in at 6'2", 235 lbs is not going to scare a 3-4 team away from drafting him and essentially redshirting him for a year. He had a pretty weak statline against inferior competition, with only 6.5 sacks in 2013. In the 7th round, teams like drafting nobodies with measurable who could make them look like geniuses, and Jones looks like that kind of guy.
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03-05-2014, 10:44 AM	#18
Direckshun __ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Springpatch Casino cash: $4153447	He'd be pretty perfect as a DE in our 3-4. Don't even care if he's undersized. He'd be perfect.
Posts: 59,314

03-05-2014, 10:48 AM	#21
Brock Say hello to my little friend Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Larryville Casino cash: $9598422	Jackson Jeffcoat sounds awfully familiar.
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