Bennett back! Cloud or Moreau to be inactive. Could this be... - Page 2

Devin Vierth · 11-02-2000, 11:11 AM

the end of the line for one (or both)of these two?

I know many of you are high on Moreau, but he has been mainly used in short yardage situations. With Bennett back, will he be needed? Plus, I heard Bill Maas say the other day, the players are uncomfortable with Moreau.

Cloud is a return man, but probably could be replaced in that department. Benching Cloud, means all our offense is between the tackles, (not that he has seen the field in the last couple of games anyway).

Interesting call! But none the less, this call, IMO, is a clear indicator we will be looking to FA (Dillon, Smith, Garner, etc) or the draft next year.

[This message has been edited by Coogs (edited 11-02-2000).]

Luzap · 11-02-2000, 12:31 PM

Has anyone ever wondered or heard why KC doesnt use a split back set? I mean as a rushing team wouldn't having two backs in that set confuse the defense even a little bit?

I know, I know, we'd still run up the middle, but at least when we lined up the defense might stop and think for a second.

11-02-2000, 12:31 PM

Bob Dole isn't sure Maas knows what he's talking about any more when it comes to "inside info." Ever notice that his reports relative to the Chiefs are [b]always[/b] of a negative nature? Sounds like he's got one source, and someone with an axe to grind, at that.

11-02-2000, 12:33 PM

Thanks Titus. You saved Bob Dole having to type that message for the 400,000th time.

Boise_Chief · 11-02-2000, 12:37 PM

Bob, I remember Hall at Texas A.M. As I recall he was a hell of a back running outside and off tackle. I tend to believe that he's having trouble picking up the offense and perhaps his blocking is weak is why he's not able to leapfrog Cloud and Moreau. Just my thoughts anyway.

Devin Vierth · 11-02-2000, 12:38 PM

Bob,

I've noticed Maas being critical of the Chiefs. It seems kind of odd since he is employeed to do the pre-season games, that he would always be biting the hand that feeds him so to speak.

mikey23545 · 11-02-2000, 12:39 PM

I, like Bob Dole, wonder who is Maas' source. He was the reporter who broke the "Gunther contemplated retirement" story. Whoever it is, it does appear that they like to leak negative information.

As to Bennett, I say let the rookies play. IMO Bennett and Moreau are identical so there is no reason to start both of them. Cloud has the outside speed, but ever since his 15 yard TD rush he has only been given the ball three times up the gut.

I think Gunther is grasping at straws if he thinks Bennett is the answer.

Devin Vierth · 11-02-2000, 12:45 PM

When the choice comes as to which one of these two will be inactive, I wonder if Gunther will remember back to the 2nd half of last years Raiders game. That was Clouds only opportunity to show his stuff as a Chief, and he was very effective in that game.

Also, last Sunday, the only Charger to have any success running the ball was Fletcher. The Chargers "big" backs were stuffed time and time again. Fletcher was able to beat them to the corner.

If this was my decision, Cloud plays, and plays a lot Sunday. This is a must game.

[This message has been edited by Coogs (edited 11-02-2000).]

11-02-2000, 12:48 PM

The Cloud thing is mystifying to Bob Dole. Another example of the coaching staff's "well that worked...let's try something else" strategy. (Note that Bob Dole has seen significant improvement in the staff, but still has problems with it.)

And for Hall's lack of blocking, Bob Dole would at least like to see him used on 3 plays in one game. First, there [b]is[/b] no film of him in the KC offense, so it would create at least some confusion for the D.

Use him first as a decoy only, quick play-action dump to Gonzo over the middle. Second, use him on an outside run where his ability to block makes no difference, since he has the ball. Third play, run him outside [b]exactly[/b] like the first, except hand the ball to DA for the reverse.

KC Jones · 11-02-2000, 12:54 PM

It is mystifying....one of the best runs of the season and for a TD, was Clouds 15 yard run...AROUND END...against the Hawks...Gun are you listening?...

I don't care if Cloud is totally worthless or not...but I'd like the opportunity to see it with my own eyes...IMO, short of getting a big name FA or draft, Cloud and TRich are our best shots at featured backs...Hall would be exciting used in the Dunn/Kaufmann role...

GUN ARE YOU OUT THERE?

------------------
joe

"The word "genius" isn't applicable in football. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein."
-Joe Theisman, NFL football quarterback and sports analyst

Luzap · 11-02-2000, 12:59 PM

I'd like to think I've seen enough football to understand some of the basics about football and the ebb and flow of games. With that said, is it just me or do other people believe that a RB gets better as the game goes on.

Sure the first few carries might be stuffed, but gradually, the RB gets into the 'flow' of the game.

Of course, there are games when even the best RB gets shut down, but I dont think KC has ever even had one RB in the game to get into this 'flow'.

ansonsdad · 11-02-2000, 12:59 PM

Have the Chiefs run the reverse to DA this year? I can't recall.

I'm baffled as to why they have not cut Bennett. What value does he bring to this team that we don't ineptly carry in the current stable. If I had a vote, I would chose TR and Cloud in the backfield. We've proven to a horrifying point that we are unable to run up the gut. It's time to let TR do some blocking and get Cloud off tackle and around the corners.

KC Jones · 11-02-2000, 01:06 PM

Titus, how right you are....

Ever watch a game with Barry Sanders?...he gets stopped for losses on 2 out of 3 plays but on the third play he breaks it for 80 yards...look at Dillon a couple of weeks ago...he gains 70 some yards in the 1st half and 200 some in the second...

I always wondered how many yards Barry Sanders would've had had he played behind an offensive line like we had/have...not as many as you might think because he probably would've been benched after the first negative attempt... [img]http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/frown.gif[/img]

------------------
joe

"The word "genius" isn't applicable in football. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein."
-Joe Theisman, NFL football quarterback and sports analyst

autoxwes · 11-02-2000, 01:28 PM

You know what is interesting is the fact that Gun keeps mentioning how he admired so and so as a coach and he learned so much from them. I'd like to know of one - JUST ONE DAMN COACH in the NFL that does this **** with backs. And why does he think that Dillon ran for 278 yards in one damn game (I know - the Donkey's can't tackle [img]http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img])??? Because his *** got the damn ball over and over. Dammit - put Cloud or TRich or Kimble or freak man MAZ back there and give him the ball!!!! DAMNIT THIS MAKES ME MAD!!! [img]http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/mad.gif[/img]

Oh and by they way - kick the **** outa the Raiders - okay!

------------------
Wade

KC_red · 11-02-2000, 01:32 PM

Another factor to consider with these guys is their pass-catching/pass blocking ability. Even though they run the "Hackett" routes (3 yd outs), they need to be convincing to the D in order to help free up the other receivers/tightends. This is the main reason that I liked the idea of Anders being back there. I would grade him high in all areas (experience, blocking, pass catching) except for running. While I would give him an A or B for his good qualities, I would give him a C for the running.

This offense has just as much going for it as the Rams with one exception. A receiving running back. The large receivers and tightends create mismatches in the secondary and with a good receiving running back, we could really confuse opposing Ds.

So out of our stable, who can catch well? Can they block well too? I really don't know how well Moreau, Cloud, or Hall would do in these situations. I think we all should know by now that Richardson and Anders can handle the catching/blocking while Bennett is somewhere in the middle of this whole mess.

G_Man · 11-02-2000, 01:59 PM

After this season, here's what I'd to see as far as the Chiefs' backfield personnel:

Cut/Trade/Whack Bennett, Anders, Cloud, and Moreau...MAYBE keep Bennett strictly as a backup FB.

Go after a premier FA, or move up in the draft to grab a top-notch RB. I say move up because it looks like they'll be drafting around #20 again, if not lower.

As far as pass-catching RBs in college, Deuce McAllister seems to be the cream of the crop, but I haven't been keeping up with him...I'm not sure how he's doing this year.

11-02-2000, 12:31 PM	#16
Luzap 9.89 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Dallas, TX Casino cash: $10004900	Has anyone ever wondered or heard why KC doesnt use a split back set? I mean as a rushing team wouldn't having two backs in that set confuse the defense even a little bit? I know, I know, we'd still run up the middle, but at least when we lined up the defense might stop and think for a second.
Posts: 3,327

11-02-2000, 12:31 PM	#17
AustinChief Guest Casino cash: $	Bob Dole isn't sure Maas knows what he's talking about any more when it comes to "inside info." Ever notice that his reports relative to the Chiefs are [b]always[/b] of a negative nature? Sounds like he's got one source, and someone with an axe to grind, at that.
Posts: n/a

11-02-2000, 12:33 PM	#18
AustinChief Guest Casino cash: $	Thanks Titus. You saved Bob Dole having to type that message for the 400,000th time.
Posts: n/a

11-02-2000, 12:37 PM	#19
Boise_Chief The Lurkiest Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Boise,ID Casino cash: $2134188	Bob, I remember Hall at Texas A.M. As I recall he was a hell of a back running outside and off tackle. I tend to believe that he's having trouble picking up the offense and perhaps his blocking is weak is why he's not able to leapfrog Cloud and Moreau. Just my thoughts anyway.
Posts: 1,928

11-02-2000, 12:39 PM	#21
mikey23545 MVP Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10015321	I, like Bob Dole, wonder who is Maas' source. He was the reporter who broke the "Gunther contemplated retirement" story. Whoever it is, it does appear that they like to leak negative information. As to Bennett, I say let the rookies play. IMO Bennett and Moreau are identical so there is no reason to start both of them. Cloud has the outside speed, but ever since his 15 yard TD rush he has only been given the ball three times up the gut. I think Gunther is grasping at straws if he thinks Bennett is the answer.
Posts: 12,314

11-02-2000, 11:11 AM
Devin Vierth Fanatical Conservative Beware! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Boise Idaho Casino cash: $10004900	the end of the line for one (or both)of these two? I know many of you are high on Moreau, but he has been mainly used in short yardage situations. With Bennett back, will he be needed? Plus, I heard Bill Maas say the other day, the players are uncomfortable with Moreau. Cloud is a return man, but probably could be replaced in that department. Benching Cloud, means all our offense is between the tackles, (not that he has seen the field in the last couple of games anyway). Interesting call! But none the less, this call, IMO, is a clear indicator we will be looking to FA (Dillon, Smith, Garner, etc) or the draft next year. [This message has been edited by Coogs (edited 11-02-2000).]
Posts: 901

11-02-2000, 12:38 PM	#20
Devin Vierth Fanatical Conservative Beware! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Boise Idaho Casino cash: $10004900	Bob, I've noticed Maas being critical of the Chiefs. It seems kind of odd since he is employeed to do the pre-season games, that he would always be biting the hand that feeds him so to speak.
Posts: 901

11-02-2000, 12:45 PM	#22
Devin Vierth Fanatical Conservative Beware! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Boise Idaho Casino cash: $10004900	When the choice comes as to which one of these two will be inactive, I wonder if Gunther will remember back to the 2nd half of last years Raiders game. That was Clouds only opportunity to show his stuff as a Chief, and he was very effective in that game. Also, last Sunday, the only Charger to have any success running the ball was Fletcher. The Chargers "big" backs were stuffed time and time again. Fletcher was able to beat them to the corner. If this was my decision, Cloud plays, and plays a lot Sunday. This is a must game. [This message has been edited by Coogs (edited 11-02-2000).]
Posts: 901

11-02-2000, 12:48 PM	#23
AustinChief Guest Casino cash: $	The Cloud thing is mystifying to Bob Dole. Another example of the coaching staff's "well that worked...let's try something else" strategy. (Note that Bob Dole has seen significant improvement in the staff, but still has problems with it.) And for Hall's lack of blocking, Bob Dole would at least like to see him used on 3 plays in one game. First, there [b]is[/b] no film of him in the KC offense, so it would create at least some confusion for the D. Use him first as a decoy only, quick play-action dump to Gonzo over the middle. Second, use him on an outside run where his ability to block makes no difference, since he has the ball. Third play, run him outside [b]exactly[/b] like the first, except hand the ball to DA for the reverse.
Posts: n/a

11-02-2000, 12:54 PM	#24
KC Jones Genious Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Colorado Casino cash: $10012761	It is mystifying....one of the best runs of the season and for a TD, was Clouds 15 yard run...AROUND END...against the Hawks...Gun are you listening?... I don't care if Cloud is totally worthless or not...but I'd like the opportunity to see it with my own eyes...IMO, short of getting a big name FA or draft, Cloud and TRich are our best shots at featured backs...Hall would be exciting used in the Dunn/Kaufmann role... GUN ARE YOU OUT THERE? ------------------ joe "The word "genius" isn't applicable in football. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein." -Joe Theisman, NFL football quarterback and sports analyst
Posts: 5,366

11-02-2000, 12:59 PM	#25
Luzap 9.89 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Dallas, TX Casino cash: $10004900	I'd like to think I've seen enough football to understand some of the basics about football and the ebb and flow of games. With that said, is it just me or do other people believe that a RB gets better as the game goes on. Sure the first few carries might be stuffed, but gradually, the RB gets into the 'flow' of the game. Of course, there are games when even the best RB gets shut down, but I dont think KC has ever even had one RB in the game to get into this 'flow'.
Posts: 3,327

11-02-2000, 12:59 PM	#26
ansonsdad Starter Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: SF NM Casino cash: $6564925	Have the Chiefs run the reverse to DA this year? I can't recall. I'm baffled as to why they have not cut Bennett. What value does he bring to this team that we don't ineptly carry in the current stable. If I had a vote, I would chose TR and Cloud in the backfield. We've proven to a horrifying point that we are unable to run up the gut. It's time to let TR do some blocking and get Cloud off tackle and around the corners.
Posts: 540

11-02-2000, 01:06 PM	#27
KC Jones Genious Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Colorado Casino cash: $10012761	Titus, how right you are.... Ever watch a game with Barry Sanders?...he gets stopped for losses on 2 out of 3 plays but on the third play he breaks it for 80 yards...look at Dillon a couple of weeks ago...he gains 70 some yards in the 1st half and 200 some in the second... I always wondered how many yards Barry Sanders would've had had he played behind an offensive line like we had/have...not as many as you might think because he probably would've been benched after the first negative attempt... [img]http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/frown.gif[/img] ------------------ joe "The word "genius" isn't applicable in football. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein." -Joe Theisman, NFL football quarterback and sports analyst
Posts: 5,366

11-02-2000, 01:28 PM	#28
autoxwes Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Hutchinson, Ks. USA Casino cash: $10004900	You know what is interesting is the fact that Gun keeps mentioning how he admired so and so as a coach and he learned so much from them. I'd like to know of one - JUST ONE DAMN COACH in the NFL that does this ** with backs. And why does he think that Dillon ran for 278 yards in one damn game (I know - the Donkey's can't tackle [img]http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img])??? Because his * got the damn ball over and over. Dammit - put Cloud or TRich or Kimble or freak man MAZ back there and give him the ball!!!! DAMNIT THIS MAKES ME MAD!!! [img]http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/mad.gif[/img] Oh and by they way - kick the **** outa the Raiders - okay! ------------------ Wade
Posts: 330

11-02-2000, 01:32 PM	#29
KC_red Starter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Houston, TX, us Casino cash: $10004900	Another factor to consider with these guys is their pass-catching/pass blocking ability. Even though they run the "Hackett" routes (3 yd outs), they need to be convincing to the D in order to help free up the other receivers/tightends. This is the main reason that I liked the idea of Anders being back there. I would grade him high in all areas (experience, blocking, pass catching) except for running. While I would give him an A or B for his good qualities, I would give him a C for the running. This offense has just as much going for it as the Rams with one exception. A receiving running back. The large receivers and tightends create mismatches in the secondary and with a good receiving running back, we could really confuse opposing Ds. So out of our stable, who can catch well? Can they block well too? I really don't know how well Moreau, Cloud, or Hall would do in these situations. I think we all should know by now that Richardson and Anders can handle the catching/blocking while Bennett is somewhere in the middle of this whole mess.
Posts: 267

11-02-2000, 01:59 PM	#30
G_Man Veteran Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10004900	After this season, here's what I'd to see as far as the Chiefs' backfield personnel: Cut/Trade/Whack Bennett, Anders, Cloud, and Moreau...MAYBE keep Bennett strictly as a backup FB. Go after a premier FA, or move up in the draft to grab a top-notch RB. I say move up because it looks like they'll be drafting around #20 again, if not lower. As far as pass-catching RBs in college, Deuce McAllister seems to be the cream of the crop, but I haven't been keeping up with him...I'm not sure how he's doing this year.
Posts: 2,215