"Alex Smith makes your defense better"

[temper11]

Article from Arrowhead Pride. Talks of the apparent positive effects of Smith's game on the defense.

This won't change any minds... Smith-baters have been saying this for a while now, but at least someone put it on paper and put some numbers to it for discussion.

Have at it everyone...

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2015/6...defense-better

[ThaVirus]

There's no point in arguing with him. I just listed several names, as I've done before, and he conveniently ignores them.

[Sandy Vagina]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

Of course you don't see many names. You were asking for a very small subset of players/teams. By only equating success with a SB win, you're starting with a max of 49 situations, right from the start. Then, coupling that with the specific weaknesses mentioned:

Bad OL
Bad WR

you naturally will get an even smaller number.

That's not what I was doing. I was asking for QBs that excelled (or played at a high level) while having both shit at OL and WR.

Give me a year where Ben truly excelled, and didn't have more than shit for OL and WRs.

Same for the others. That is the level of specificity I was truly hoping for.

Ben didn't really excel until 2007.. where really, the only thing he could have been said to do very well in was throwing 32 TD passes. However, he had a young and very good Santonio Holmes at that time... plus Hines Ward.. and throw in Heath Miller. The 4 yrs after 2007, he was solid but not putting up grand numbers. They drafted Mike Wallace for him in 2000, and he was great in the early years. Antonio Brown is a top 5 WR in the league... no?

Would these receivers not remove him from the list?

[The Franchise]

Exactly how are you quantifying that an offensive line or wide receiver group is "shit"?

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by Pestilence

Exactly how are you quantifying that an offensive line or wide receiver group is "shit"?

His personal opinion, which keeps flip-flopping unsurprisingly.

He continues to ask for a QB with bottom 5 WRs and then cites TEs to help fit his narrative.

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

His personal opinion, which keeps flip-flopping unsurprisingly.

He continues to ask for a QB with bottom 5 WRs and then cites TEs to help fit his narrative.

It doesn't matter. He'll just continue to claim that Dwayne Bowe was the absolute worst WR in the league and incapable of doing anything good on the field.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Grown men changing team allegiances is as creepy as Pat fans posting on a Chief board. It makes ZERO sense.

[Sandy Vagina]

Originally Posted by Pestilence

Exactly how are you quantifying that an offensive line or wide receiver group is "shit"?

Granted, these things can be tough to nail down as exact. But if everyone is honest and not forcing agendas, it's not that difficult to look and assess who had top, mid, and bottom tier WR and OL groups.

Guys, I know this is uncommon for CP, but this really is meant as a civil discussion into whether QBs (and which ones) have played at a high level with shit for OL and WR.

I can't think of many... maybe not any.. that really do. Even if we were to force a few names that kind of work? That's a start, albeit a short list that may just strengthen my suspicion of how rare it can be. So if people want to go into it, great. If it's easier and convenient to just not, and leave it at some trifling insult? Hey, go with that.

[Sandy Vagina]

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

His personal opinion, which keeps flip-flopping unsurprisingly.

He continues to ask for a QB with bottom 5 WRs and then cites TEs to help fit his narrative.

The TE added for Ben wasn't even necessary.. just threw it in to point out another good option he had.

[BigCatDaddy]

Originally Posted by Sandy Cheeks

The TE added for Ben wasn't even necessary.. just threw it in to point out another good option he had.

As long as you are cool throwing in JC also. Hate to not be consistant.

[Sandy Vagina]

Originally Posted by Pasta Giant Meatball

Grown men changing team allegiances is as creepy as Pat fans posting on a Chief board. It makes ZERO sense.

Copied and pasted, so I never again have to type it.

I have been a "fan" of the 49ers for decades, and still am to a lesser degree.
I signed no contract to be a "fan".
I made no blood pact with the organization.
I swore no allegiances to a family member pushing them onto me as a child.
I have no ties to SF, and have never even been to the WC, except to fly over to Hawaii.
I simply liked the team, and still to this day do.
I watch most of their games still.. but over the years, have steadily lost some of that enthusiasm.

As fellow anonymous members of a forum, I don’t see why anyone should care about where and why I hang my fandom onto the Chiefs and wish them success. You should simply be thankful that your team is relevant again, and even has "fans" that support them.

A grown man should be able to freely step in and out of any situation that either pleases him or displeases. Over the last two years, I have grown quite fond of the Chiefs, and much less so of the 49ers. I always rather liked the Chiefs anyway, and enjoyed watching Montana play for them. I can think of no other roster that has added or already had so many interesting and exciting players. I follow every aspect, and it’s not all about the QB.

If you happen to have some irrational devotion to the team… due to geography, family sentiments, blood pacts, etc… that’s your business, and I’d not judge you for it. I see no reason that this can not be reciprocated.

You can read it, wipe your ass with it... whatever ya like. If you're the decent type though, maybe you can just understand and deal with it better now.

signed,

creepy.

[ThaVirus]

Andrew Luck, Philip Rivers, Russell Wilson, Tom Brady, Carson Palmer, Cam Newton, and Ryan Tannehill.

[jd1020]

"The best defense is a good offense."

[Sandy Vagina]

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

As long as you are cool throwing in JC also. Hate to not be consistant.

LOL, nah.. not leaving room for you to use your evasive maneuvers.

Keep it just OL and WR then. Again, I just adding that TE for point of additional support for Ben, but it did nothing to really alter anything about what we are digging for.

Ben still had good WR weapons.. so I asked dude if he should really be included.

[Sandy Vagina]

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

Andrew Luck, Philip Rivers, Russell Wilson, Tom Brady, Carson Palmer, Cam Newton, and Ryan Tannehill.

Pretty sure all of these are invalid. This is as specific as you are capable of getting? Throw some names out with exact yrs, WR groups, OL, something!

copy/paste... because I am not typing this out again either..

I think it's fair to say that Rivers, in the last 2 years, has been close to elite, if not elite. OL suckage? yes.. can't argue that. WR suckage? Man... I don't think we can say he has bottom 5 WRs. Keenan Allen is a badass, and better than Bowe.. Malcolm Floyd is a very solid vet.. and Eddie Royal is easily better than Avery. Looks like Rivers checked down a ton to Woodhead also in 2013 to get him 76 receptions in. RBs aside though..

Allen, Floyd, and Royal... Were they really a poor trio? I don't think so.

So then, Rivers is eliminated from the short list, and then there were two.

Andrew Luck.. generally referred to as a once in a decade type of QB. Okay, let's just run with it anyway...

First, I'd say that T.Y. Hilton is an incredible WR weapon. He alone pushes the team above bottom 5/[inappropriate/removed] WR corps. Then add Reggie Wayne, Nicks, and Moncrief... and no way can anyone reasonably say his 2014 WRs are bottom 5/[inappropriate/removed]. OL ranked on the downside of middle-of-pack.. but doesn't matter... WRs alone not bottom 5/[inappropriate/removed].

Why no mention of Luck's 2013 year? why bother? his stats were very Alex-like. 60%.. 23 TDs / 9 INTs / 3800 yds / 87 rating... and he still had Hilton and Wayne (half season injury).

So it is very reasonable to take Luck off the list.

Now down to one. Russell Wilson.

This is as close as it gets. RW did not have a good OL for pass pro. bottom 5? not quite that bad.. but it wasn't good. WRs... not good. Bottom 5? yeah okay. I would say yes. So let's put the WRs and OL as bottom 5.. it's close enough.

So we have a real, legit name on the list.

How bout them numbers?

3400 pass yds.. 20 TDs.. 7 INTs... 63%.. 95 rating.. a top defense and RB..

Very similar. Difference is.. RW has elite mobility to extend plays.. and is far more willing to chuck the deep passes. Fair to say.

So even though he has [inappropriate/removed] WRs and OLs.. his rare mobility and brass balls allows him to do what? put up very Alex-like numbers. They do things in a different way.. but with similar production all the same.

So does that mean he should remain on a list that is presented to show him as a QB that functions on a high level despite bottom 5/[inappropriate/removed] OL and WR groups? Apparently so..since he was added onto the list.

So if Smith has similar production and functionality as RW... he must be functioning on a high level despite bottom 5/[inappropriate/removed] OLs and WRs.

[The Franchise]

2014:

Moncrief - 444 yards and 3 TDs
Nicks - 405 yards and 4 TDs
Wayne - 779 yards and 2 TDs