Pats Cheating Comfirmed

[PizzaDoughz]

According to the report, the league sources say the NFL determined 11 of the 12 footballs used by the Patriots were under-inflated by two pounds per square inch each. Per NFL rules, footballs are required to be inflated between 12.5 and 13.5 PSI and weigh between 14 and 15 ounces.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/1/2...bill-belichick

Discuss.

[MagicHef]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

This thread is 60 pages long. Feel free to repeat, summarize, or link me to whatever you said.

Many things are news to you, apparently, including the spelling of Belichick's name.

Assuming a pliable football is a rigid vessel is foolish.

Can you give me a link about the NFL having Belichick's phone? Google didn't do me any good.

[Red Dawg]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

So 2 out of 4 ruled in favor of Brady, right? Right. Thanks for playing.

The two that ruled against him are on the higher court. They matter more and would be sitting on the 13 panel as well.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by MagicHef

Assuming a pliable football is a rigid vessel is foolish.

Ah, that.

All I know is that many, many scientists, all much smarter than me, have asserted over and over again that the ideal gas law accounts for the drop in pressure. You have it in your head (and you're not the only one -- I think Hamas or someone else raised this point also) that the fact that it isn't a rigid vessel is very significant. I cannot say, from my own knowledge, whether it is or isn't.

What I can say is that ACTUAL EXPERIMENTS WITH ACTUAL FOOTBALLS, also exonerated the Patriots.

“A lot of people came out and didn’t really use the equation correctly. They forgot to convert the pressure into absolute pressure, so they were using gauge pressure, not absolute pressure,” said Thomas Healy, a graduate student at Carnegie Mellon and researcher at HeadSmart Labs.

When word of this misconception spread, a number of scientists had to go back and revise earlier calculations. Tyson ultimately released a retraction of his earlier tweet. “I made that mistake too,” Ramirez said. Orzel added that it was a common misconception that was likely compounded by years of word problems in school that overly simplify what gauges really do.
On January 29, the New York Times ran an article highlighting the misconceptions of the ideal gas law. It also covered the experiments of Healy at HeadSmart Labs, which seemed to exonerate the Patriots. HeadSmart primarily focuses on developing sports equipment to prevent concussions, but Healy and his team had redirected their investigations to football air pressure. “What our research brought in was you can’t only look at the temperature, you have to bring in the fact that it was raining,” Healy said. “Our hypothesis was that when leather gets wet, it starts to expand some, which increases the volume and decreases the pressure.”

Healy and his team did their best to recreate the changes in temperature and moisture the ball underwent from the warm locker room to the cold rainy field. They soaked the footballs in water with a damp rag and stored them in a 50-degree room for about two hours. “In that time we saw that there was an on average 1.8 psi drop in the footballs,” Healy said.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxsXFX3tDpg


The scientific answer to the "rigid vessel" issue is well beyond me, but since (1) I have no doubt that these very bright scientists realize a football is not a steel box, and (2) some of them used/tested actual footballs, it seems to me well covered.

Can you give me a link about the NFL having Belichick's phone? Google didn't do me any good.

re: the spelling of Belichick's name.

Google also failed to help me on this. I have a very specific memory that the Patriots ordered all employees, including Belichick, to turn over their phones, which they did. Brady is an employee but in a special class as his relationship is covered by the CBA. Pats kicker Stephen Gostkowski also did not turn over his phone in connection with the kicking ball scandal.

But yeah, I can't find anything on who did/didn't turn over their phones now either.

I will say that I doubt the NFL would have specifically exonerated Belichick if he DIDN'T turn over his phone, but that is hardly strong evidence.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by Tuckdaddy

The two that ruled against him are on the higher court. They matter more and would be sitting on the 13 panel as well.

Yes, as is the CHIEF JUDGE of the Second Circuit, who ruled in favor of Brady.



At this point it isn't much about whether Brady did or didn't do something wrong. It's all about process and the power of an arbitrator under the CBA blah, blah blah.

But rant on.

[MagicHef]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Ah, that.

All I know is that many, many scientists, all much smarter than me, have asserted over and over again that the ideal gas law accounts for the drop in pressure. You have it in your head (and you're not the only one -- I think Hamas or someone else raised this point also) that the fact that it isn't a rigid vessel is very significant. I cannot say, from my own knowledge, whether it is or isn't.

What I can say is that ACTUAL EXPERIMENTS WITH ACTUAL FOOTBALLS, also exonerated the Patriots.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxsXFX3tDpg


The scientific answer to the "rigid vessel" issue is well beyond me, but since (1) I have no doubt that these very bright scientists realize a football is not a steel box, and (2) some of them used/tested actual footballs, it seems to me well covered.



re: the spelling of Belichick's name.

Google also failed to help me on this. I have a very specific memory that the Patriots ordered all employees, including Belichick, to turn over their phones, which they did. Brady is an employee but in a special class as his relationship is covered by the CBA. Pats kicker Stephen Gostkowski also did not turn over his phone in connection with the kicking ball scandal.

But yeah, I can't find anything on who did/didn't turn over their phones now either.

I will say that I doubt the NFL would have specifically exonerated Belichick if he DIDN'T turn over his phone, but that is hardly strong evidence.

Your (1) is what mystifies me. I'm sure that they intellectually would realize that a football is not a steel box, but with the way they are applying the ideal gas law, that is exactly what they are assuming. I cannot believe that no one has called them on it, but maybe everybody's just sick of the conversation. I don't know. Whatever.

As far as experimental data goes, I'd really like someone to set up a test that closely mirrors the conditions that all of the balls (including the Colts' balls) went through. This way the assumption that everyone seems to be applying (Pats' balls were measured, a break of some time, Colts' balls were measured accounts for the discrepancies between the two sets of balls) could be tested. This is the part of the story that I have trouble buying.

[HemiEd]

cheaters

[Red Dawg]

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by MagicHef

Your (1) is what mystifies me. I'm sure that they intellectually would realize that a football is not a steel box, but with the way they are applying the ideal gas law, that is exactly what they are assuming. I cannot believe that no one has called them on it, but maybe everybody's just sick of the conversation. I don't know. Whatever.

It may well be that it is "rigid enough", or the fact that actual experiments back up the predictions of the ideal gas law gives reassurance that it is accurately predicting what happens with a change in temperature for a football. I can't explain it, and see nobody that discusses it online. All I know is that waaaay more Ph.Ds than I will meet in a lifetime seem to be comfortable with it.

As far as experimental data goes, I'd really like someone to set up a test that closely mirrors the conditions that all of the balls (including the Colts' balls) went through. This way the assumption that everyone seems to be applying (Pats' balls were measured, a break of some time, Colts' balls were measured accounts for the discrepancies between the two sets of balls) could be tested. This is the part of the story that I have trouble buying.

I hear you, and I understand.

All I can really say is that despite paying attention to this for over a year, pretty much the only "scientists" that I have seen that support the findings of the Wells Report are the bought-and-paid-for "experts" that the NFL's lawyers hired. Pretty much every other scientist that has looked at it has called it junk science, and confirmed that the deflation reported in the Wells Report is explained by the Ideal Gas Law.

https://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploa...lls-report.pdf

http://drewfustin.com/deflategate/

http://www.sporttechie.com/2015/01/3...s-deflategate/


And, unlike the guys used in the Wells Report, these guys weren't paid by the Patriots to find what they found.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by Tuckdaddy

I didn't listen to all of it (to say the least), but I really like how the video includes the fumble rate as proof of deflation/cheating.

Such a terrible shame for all of you haters that teh Patriots once again led the league in fumble rate in 2015, despite random testing of ball pressure.

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/01/05/n...bill-belichick

Last winter, much was made about the extremely low fumble rates of the Patriots, leading many to speculate or conclude that their potentially deflated footballs were responsible. See FiveThirtyEight for a general summary of the arguments.

In any case, the 2015 season makes for an excellent out-of-sample test with respect to New England's fumble tendencies. Although the Patriots have been accused of going crazy lengths to gain a winning edge, it seems safe to assume that any suspect ball routine could not have been a part of the game-day preparation process this season. (The NFL implemented new procedures for inspecting game balls.) As a result, if one initially made the link between the Patriots low fumble rates and deflated footballs, the natural follow-up would be to assume that New England's fumble rates would revert toward the league average in 2015.

So what happened in 2015?

• The Patriots had the fewest fumbles of any NFL offense.

• The Patriots had the best fumble rate of any NFL offense.

• The Patriots had one of their best fumble rates of the past decade.

That's the Patriots on the far right, leading the league while fumbling only once every 105 plays.

Haters gonna hate. Rock on!

[Spott]

All of you that are whining and bitching about the Patriots cheating sound like a bunch of little girls.

[Mennonite]

Cheating scumbags.

[HemiEd]

Originally Posted by Mennonite

Cheating scumbags.

good post. cheaters

[MagicHef]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

It may well be that it is "rigid enough", or the fact that actual experiments back up the predictions of the ideal gas law gives reassurance that it is accurately predicting what happens with a change in temperature for a football. I can't explain it, and see nobody that discusses it online. All I know is that waaaay more Ph.Ds than I will meet in a lifetime seem to be comfortable with it.




I hear you, and I understand.

All I can really say is that despite paying attention to this for over a year, pretty much the only "scientists" that I have seen that support the findings of the Wells Report are the bought-and-paid-for "experts" that the NFL's lawyers hired. Pretty much every other scientist that has looked at it has called it junk science, and confirmed that the deflation reported in the Wells Report is explained by the Ideal Gas Law.

https://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploa...lls-report.pdf

http://drewfustin.com/deflategate/

http://www.sporttechie.com/2015/01/3...s-deflategate/


And, unlike the guys used in the Wells Report, these guys weren't paid by the Patriots to find what they found.

There is no way that it's rigid enough. The amount of size change in the football material that is needed to make the pressures not "consistent with Ideal Gas Law predictions" is minuscule. I figured it out once, and it was like a fraction of a millimeter in the diameter of the football.

The force from the air pressure must be resisted by something, and in this case it is resisted by the rubber bladder. Elastic deformation of materials generates that resisting force through deformation. There is no other way for the material to provide equal force against the air pressure, meaning that the bladder must deform based on changing pressures. Deformation of the bladder means a changing volume, which invalidates the use of the Ideal Gas Law.

I don't care how many PhDs say otherwise, it doesn't change the laws of physics.

[MagicHef]

Originally Posted by eDave

Not sure if this counts but there are two strays at Joe's Crabshack that I've been taking care of for the last month or so. I stop by every couple of days to fill food and water bowls I put out for them until the heat subsides. Bonnie and Clyde:

Yes, it definitely counts.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Good lord Asterix is STILL defending his cheating frauds