Royals (New) 2013 Kansas City Royals Repository - Page 217

duncan_idaho · 08-15-2013, 08:13 AM

New thread, this time with more burst.

Proposed 2013 Slogan: Tigers: They're what's for dinner
Actual 2013 Slogan: Come to Play
A better, more accurate, or alternative slogan: All in, no panic, we promise.

Dayton Moore has pushed all his chips in and is riding on King/Jack suited, hoping it comes together, he gets some good luck, and he hits the nuts by the river card. There's potential, oh yes, there's potential. There's also risk.

At the midway point, Dayton is left counting on the river card. The flop and turn didn't help him, and he's looking at the Tigers holding a pair of Queens and the Indians holding a pair of 9s. His 2013 plan hasn't failed - yet - but the odds are not in his favor.

Burning questions updates below.

Burning Questions for 2013:

1) Will the improve rotation be improved enough? Does James Shields pitch like a fringe No. 1 away from Tampa Bay? Does Ervin Santana pitch to his highest upside in his walk year? Can Jeremy Guthrie build on his strong performance as a Royal in 2012? Can Wade Davis bring his new mentality- and velocity - back to the rotation?

Midseason check-in: Yes, the rotation is certainly improved enough. Shields has pitched like a fringe No. 1 and Santana is having his best season. Guthrie has horrible peripherals but has continued to perform well at his home park and eat innings on the road. Davis brought neither his kick-ass mentality or improved velocity back to the rotation and is in Luke Hochevar/Hiram Davies territory.

2) When will Luke Hochevar be shown the door?
Midseason check-in: It appears, never, at this point. Hochevar has been solid in non-leverage situations, though pretty much every time he has been used with men on base in an inning, it has been a disaster.

3) Does Hosmer bounce back?
Midseason check-in: It took some time, but Hosmer's performance from June 1 on is probably the most encouraging thing about the 2013 season so far.
4) Can Moustakas hit for a whole season like he did in the first half of 2012?
Midseason check-in: Nope. Moustakas was god-awful, then great for about 3 weeks, then god-awful again. He has been better since he started working with Brett and Grafol but still has a long way to go.
5) Who regresses?
Midseason check-in: Welp, Alicides Escobar is not a surprising name here (though Yost's stubborn insistence on hitting him second is ridiculous). Billy Butler is a surprise. He isn't having a terrible year - still contributing a lot to the offense - but he's not hitting for the average or power he has displayed over the past several years.
6) Who plays 2B?
Midseason check-in: A whole bunch of people, and not that great. Gio is at least getting a shot, though he once again is not doing much with it.
7) Can Jeff Francoeur be at least replacement level, rather than epic horrible level?
Midseason check-in: Hahahahahahahahahahaha
8) Will Dayton Moore survive to see 2014?
Midseason check-in: Outlook uncertain. Probably still around, unless the team completely tanks in the second half and he does something foolish. My guess - he sacrifices Ned Yost this offseason and gets one more shot with a new manager in 2014.
9) Will Danny Duffy come back healthy? And if he does, is he the same, better or worse?
Midseason check-in: Yes. Velocity looks the same, and it looks likely he is the same guy as before.
10) And the big one: Has KC added enough to run down the big-money Detroit Tigers?
Midseason check-in: Doesn't look like it, does it?

**alnorth** · 12-06-2013, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakesthecat

There's no way Moore is stupid enough to trade Butler for Franklin straight up.

Thats the kind of trade you make if you have a team filled with old or flawed players, you conclude that they can't win, and you decide to blow it all up and start over.

We can use a new 2B, but not an unproven young guy at the expense of Butler in a year when we're trying to win.

CoMoChief · 12-06-2013, 05:18 PM

Why's everyone excited about a guy who hit .225 last season?

That's ****ing stupid.

**Bowser** · 12-06-2013, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoMoChief

Why's everyone excited about a guy who hit .225 last season?

That's ****ing stupid.

Because even .225 guy is better than the other buckets of **** we rolled out there last season.

duncan_idaho · 12-06-2013, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth

Thats the kind of trade you make if you have a team filled with old or flawed players, you conclude that they can't win, and you decide to blow it all up and start over.

We can use a new 2B, but not an unproven young guy at the expense of Butler in a year when we're trying to win.

This. Exactly this.

The point is upgrading the offense. It's hard to do that in any scenario that involves trading Billy Butler.

**lewdog** · 12-06-2013, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

This. Exactly this.

The point is upgrading the offense. It's hard to do that in any scenario that involves trading Billy Butler.

TOO FAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Have you seen how many double plays he grounds into!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?

**Bowser** · 12-06-2013, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

This. Exactly this.

The point is upgrading the offense. It's hard to do that in any scenario that involves trading Billy Butler.

You just don't trade Butler unless Beltran is already locked up, and even then I'd think long and hard about it.

Prison Bitch · 12-06-2013, 05:31 PM

Lulz, whole lotta stupid on this thread. Oliver projections have Franklin at 3 war/per the next five years with Butler less than half that. Small markets must make trades like this. It's a total no brainer to me, ESP if Beltran comes

**lewdog** · 12-06-2013, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

Lulz, whole lotta stupid on this thread. Oliver projections have Franklin at 3 war/per the next five years with Butler less than half that. Small markets must make trades like this. It's a total no brainer to me, ESP if Beltran comes

Whole lotta stupid if you think taking a .225 hitter and a clear prospect over a guy who hits .300 for 7 years at the major league level when we need to upgrade our offense NOW. We are going for winning now, you dipshit.

**lewdog** · 12-06-2013, 05:38 PM

But please, keep relying on your projections.

Those same projections sure were off for Escobar and Moose.

duncan_idaho · 12-06-2013, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lewdog

TOO FAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Have you seen how many double plays he grounds into!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Herpa derpa derpa

Players who were also in the Top 10 in double plays last year:
Matt Holliday
Paul Goldschmidt
Dustin Pedroia
Jose Altuve
Victor Martinez
David Ortiz
Kendrys Morales

Clearly, grounding into a lot of double plays is an indication you suck. Just look at that list!

**Bowser** · 12-06-2013, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Herpa derpa derpa

Players who were also in the Top 10 in double plays last year:
Matt Holliday
Paul Goldschmidt
Dustin Pedroia
Jose Altuve
Victor Martinez
David Ortiz
Kendrys Morales

Clearly, grounding into a lot of double plays is an indication you suck. Just look at that list!

Slapdicks, the whole lot of them.

**lewdog** · 12-06-2013, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Herpa derpa derpa

Players who were also in the Top 10 in double plays last year:
Matt Holliday
Paul Goldschmidt
Dustin Pedroia
Jose Altuve
Victor Martinez
David Ortiz
Kendrys Morales

Clearly, grounding into a lot of double plays is an indication you suck. Just look at that list!

That is ****ing terrible! Look at those ****ing bums! I brought this up in the trade Butler thread and everyone agreed....Billy is still fatter than all of them!!!

MeatRock · 12-06-2013, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

Lulz, whole lotta stupid on this thread. Oliver projections have Franklin at 3 war/per the next five years with Butler less than half that. Small markets must make trades like this. It's a total no brainer to me, ESP if Beltran comes

This is the dumbest shit i have ever read. This can only happen IF Beltran is already here and signed and even then, Butler for Franklin straight up? No thanks.

Deberg_1990 · 12-06-2013, 05:50 PM

My biggest problem with Butler is he hits too many single and not enough HRs. Looks like Kilabrew, swings like Rod Carew.

duncan_idaho · 12-06-2013, 05:52 PM

Ultimate way to look at it:

Trading Billy Butler for Nick Franklin is really little different than trading Billy Butler for Mike Moustakas.

I don't think people realize how ABJECTLY AWFUL Franklin was once the league got a look at him. I'll say it again:

August 1-end of season:

.172/.274/.264
2 HR
57 SO
163 AB

That's a 35 percent K rate and a spike of 10 percent over his first 200 AB.

08-15-2013, 08:13 AM
duncan_idaho M-I-Z-Z-O-U Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Kansas City Casino cash: $1200308	(New) 2013 Kansas City Royals Repository New thread, this time with more burst. Proposed 2013 Slogan: Tigers: They're what's for dinner Actual 2013 Slogan: Come to Play A better, more accurate, or alternative slogan: All in, no panic, we promise. Dayton Moore has pushed all his chips in and is riding on King/Jack suited, hoping it comes together, he gets some good luck, and he hits the nuts by the river card. There's potential, oh yes, there's potential. There's also risk. At the midway point, Dayton is left counting on the river card. The flop and turn didn't help him, and he's looking at the Tigers holding a pair of Queens and the Indians holding a pair of 9s. His 2013 plan hasn't failed - yet - but the odds are not in his favor. Burning questions updates below. Burning Questions for 2013: 1) Will the improve rotation be improved enough? Does James Shields pitch like a fringe No. 1 away from Tampa Bay? Does Ervin Santana pitch to his highest upside in his walk year? Can Jeremy Guthrie build on his strong performance as a Royal in 2012? Can Wade Davis bring his new mentality- and velocity - back to the rotation? Midseason check-in: Yes, the rotation is certainly improved enough. Shields has pitched like a fringe No. 1 and Santana is having his best season. Guthrie has horrible peripherals but has continued to perform well at his home park and eat innings on the road. Davis brought neither his kick-ass mentality or improved velocity back to the rotation and is in Luke Hochevar/Hiram Davies territory. 2) When will Luke Hochevar be shown the door? Midseason check-in: It appears, never, at this point. Hochevar has been solid in non-leverage situations, though pretty much every time he has been used with men on base in an inning, it has been a disaster. 3) Does Hosmer bounce back? Midseason check-in: It took some time, but Hosmer's performance from June 1 on is probably the most encouraging thing about the 2013 season so far. 4) Can Moustakas hit for a whole season like he did in the first half of 2012? Midseason check-in: Nope. Moustakas was god-awful, then great for about 3 weeks, then god-awful again. He has been better since he started working with Brett and Grafol but still has a long way to go. 5) Who regresses? Midseason check-in: Welp, Alicides Escobar is not a surprising name here (though Yost's stubborn insistence on hitting him second is ridiculous). Billy Butler is a surprise. He isn't having a terrible year - still contributing a lot to the offense - but he's not hitting for the average or power he has displayed over the past several years. 6) Who plays 2B? Midseason check-in: A whole bunch of people, and not that great. Gio is at least getting a shot, though he once again is not doing much with it. 7) Can Jeff Francoeur be at least replacement level, rather than epic horrible level? Midseason check-in: Hahahahahahahahahahaha 8) Will Dayton Moore survive to see 2014? Midseason check-in: Outlook uncertain. Probably still around, unless the team completely tanks in the second half and he does something foolish. My guess - he sacrifices Ned Yost this offseason and gets one more shot with a new manager in 2014. 9) Will Danny Duffy come back healthy? And if he does, is he the same, better or worse? Midseason check-in: Yes. Velocity looks the same, and it looks likely he is the same guy as before. 10) And the big one: Has KC added enough to run down the big-money Detroit Tigers? Midseason check-in: Doesn't look like it, does it?
Posts: 21,201

12-06-2013, 05:18 PM	#3242
CoMoChief Mahomes Dynasty Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Parts Unknown Casino cash: $7972254	Why's everyone excited about a guy who hit .225 last season? That's ****ing stupid. __________________
Posts: 39,174

12-06-2013, 05:31 PM	#3247
Prison Bitch Rabbi Goldmann Join Date: Nov 2012 Casino cash: $5450159	Lulz, whole lotta stupid on this thread. Oliver projections have Franklin at 3 war/per the next five years with Butler less than half that. Small markets must make trades like this. It's a total no brainer to me, ESP if Beltran comes
Posts: 87,025

12-06-2013, 05:38 PM	#3249
lewdog Mod Team Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Valley of the hot as **** Casino cash: $1341900	But please, keep relying on your projections. Those same projections sure were off for Escobar and Moose.
Posts: 45,752

12-06-2013, 05:50 PM	#3254
Deberg_1990 In Search of a Life Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Antonio Tx. Casino cash: $3454454	My biggest problem with Butler is he hits too many single and not enough HRs. Looks like Kilabrew, swings like Rod Carew. __________________ Originally Posted by Cassel's Reckoning: Matt once made a very nice play in Seattle where he spun away from a pass rusher and hit Bowe off his back foot for a first down. One of the best plays Matt has ever made.
Posts: 66,914

12-06-2013, 05:52 PM	#3255
duncan_idaho M-I-Z-Z-O-U Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Kansas City Casino cash: $1200308	Ultimate way to look at it: Trading Billy Butler for Nick Franklin is really little different than trading Billy Butler for Mike Moustakas. I don't think people realize how ABJECTLY AWFUL Franklin was once the league got a look at him. I'll say it again: August 1-end of season: .172/.274/.264 2 HR 57 SO 163 AB That's a 35 percent K rate and a spike of 10 percent over his first 200 AB. __________________ "You gotta love livin', cause dying is a pain in the ass." ---- Sinatra Last edited by duncan_idaho; 12-06-2013 at 05:59 PM..
Posts: 21,201