MNF - You decide

TD or INT


I don't even know how necessary this might be but I am interested to know if this is the most lopsided poll in the history of this site.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Phil Luckett

Wow, I remember him being in several controversial calls and my memory based on just hearing his name was "bad official". Based on his Wikipedia entry, however, it seems he was right in all those controversial ones (and/or was just relying on another ref, so it wasn't his fault), and that the famous "refs screwed up the coin toss, it was JEROME BETTIS who screwed up and/or tried to cheat!

Controversies

Luckett has been known for officiating several controversial games.

Thanksgiving 1998
The first was an overtime coin toss on November 26, 1998 between the Pittsburgh Steelers and the Detroit Lions at the Silverdome in Pontiac, Michigan. The referee microphone only picked up Pittsburgh captain Jerome Bettis calling "tails."[2] The toss was "tails", and Luckett called the Lions as the coin toss winners. Bettis insisted that he had called "tails", and Luckett insisted that Bettis had called "heads-tails," meaning that Bettis said "heads" first. The Steelers argued the call to no avail and Bettis denied Luckett's claim. The Lions scored a field goal on their first possession of the overtime to win the game.
Within a week, the game tape was enhanced, and Bettis is clearly heard saying "hea-tails." A sideline microphone enhancement also clearly had Bettis telling Coach Bill Cowher that (Bettis) had said "hea-tails."[2] According to NFL rules, a team's first call is the one the referee will use.


Vinny Testaverde
The second was a late touchdown scored by Vinny Testaverde of the New York Jets against the Seattle Seahawks on December 6, 1998 at The Meadowlands in East Rutherford, New Jersey. Testaverde attempted a quarterback sneak on 4th down in the final minute of the game and although television replays clearly showed the football did not cross the goal line, head linesman Earnie Frantz ruled that Testaverde had scored (in fact, the only part of Testaverde that did cross the line was his helmet). At the time, the NFL did not use instant replay to review officials' decisions. Luckett, as the head of the officiating crew that day, received bad publicity despite not actually making the erroneous ruling. The call would be cited as a major reason why the NFL reinstituted instant replay the following season. The ruling is alleged to have helped cost Seahawks a chance at a playoff berth and cost head coach Dennis Erickson his job.

The Music City Miracle

The third was the Music City Miracle play during the 1999 Playoffs between the Buffalo Bills and Tennessee Titans on January 8, 2000 at Adelphia Coliseum in Nashville. A lateral pass (by rule, a backward pass or pass parallel to the line of yardage it was thrown from) thrown by Frank Wycheck to Kevin Dyson enabled Dyson to run 75 yards for a game-winning touchdown. The Bills claimed that the pass was actually a forward pass, and thus an illegal play that would have virtually clinched the game for the Bills. Instead, Luckett, after checking the replay, ruled the pass was thrown parallel to the 25-yard line, thus making it a legal lateral pass. The NFL gave the reason for the call was that replays showed no clear proof that the call on the field was bad. NFL Films, with computer assistance, later concluded that the pass was, once and for all, a lateral.

[MagicHef]

Originally Posted by mikeyis4dcats.

That's my point. Many of you are saying GB had possession first, so it was an INT. It's not an INT until it's a legal catch, so the GB player needed sole possession AND to be down if it is an INT.

If he did not have sole possession at the point he was down, it is a TD.

According to the rule book alnorth posted, when player A gains possession first, but player B gains possession as well before player A completes the catch, it is not joint possession, it is a catch by player A.

[Brock]

Originally Posted by MagicHef

According to the rule book alnorth posted, when player A gains possession first, but player B gains possession as well before player A completes the catch, it is not joint possession, it is a catch by player A.

Yep. For the thousandth time, this was not a simultaneous catch.

[Joe Seahawk]

Uh -OH. I'm starting to sip the kool aide. Might have actually been a legit simultaneous possession after all! Tate has his feet down with partial possession..

The NFL's statement on the play notes that "a player (or players) jumping in the air has not legally gained possession of the ball until he satisfies the elements of a catch."

Those elements are satisfied when a player:
•"Secures control of the ball in his hands or arms prior to the ball touching the ground."
•"Touches the ground inbounds with both feet or any body part other than his hands."
•"Maintains control of the ball long enough to perform any act common to the game (i.e., maintaining control long enough to pitch it, pass it, advance with it or avoid or ward off an opponent, etc.)."

The league also cited the rule governing a simultaneous catch.

"If a pass is caught simultaneously by two eligible opponents, and both players retain it, the ball belongs to the passers," the rule reads. "It is not a simultaneous catch if a player gains control first and an opponent subsequently gains joint control."

[BigMeatballDave]

Yes. That pic CLEARLY shows simultaneous possession.

Especially since we can't even see the ball.

[007]

Why are we still talking about this?

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Guru

Why are we still talking about this?

Joe's been around long enough to deserve his 15 minutes.

Love the new user name.

[Joe Seahawk]

Originally Posted by Dave

Yes. That pic CLEARLY shows simultaneous possession.

Especially since we can't even see the ball.

If you watch the video i just posted, it looks like Jennings is trying to pry the ball away from tate as they hit the ground, why would he be doing that if Tate didn't have at least partial possession? You must remember it is not a catch until your feet hit (clearly Tates feet hit first, see pic)

I can see why they didn't reverse the call on the field. the push off was obviously clearly missed, but I suspect it's rather common on those hail mary's

[Joe Seahawk]

One last thing for the doubters.. WTF, If i'm going to have this user name I might as well live up to it.

http://lifexinxrewind.wordpress.com/

[Joe Seahawk]

Originally Posted by MagicHef

According to the rule book alnorth posted, when player A gains possession first, but player B gains possession as well before player A completes the catch, it is not joint possession, it is a catch by player A.

You don't posess the ball until you have satisfied the elements of posession.

Those elements are satisfied when a player:
•"Secures control of the ball in his hands or arms prior to the ball touching the ground."
•"Touches the ground inbounds with both feet or any body part other than his hands."
•"Maintains control of the ball long enough to perform any act common to the game (i.e., maintaining control long enough to pitch it, pass it, advance with it or avoid or ward off an opponent, etc.)."

Tate achieves the elements of posession first, therefore it's a TD. simple as that see pic above.

[blaise]

Just stop. They got the win; you don't need to keep acting like it was legit.

[007]

Originally Posted by blaise

Just stop. They got the win; you don't need to keep acting like it was legit.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by Joe "Simultaneous Possession' Seahawk

You don't posess the ball until you have satisfied the elements of posession.

Those elements are satisfied when a player:
•"Secures control of the ball in his hands or arms prior to the ball touching the ground."
•"Touches the ground inbounds with both feet or any body part other than his hands."
•"Maintains control of the ball long enough to perform any act common to the game (i.e., maintaining control long enough to pitch it, pass it, advance with it or avoid or ward off an opponent, etc.)."

Tate achieves the elements of posession first, therefore it's a TD. simple as that see pic above.

GTFO.

Go back to the post where it stated from the rulebook that possession is not determined by having to touch the ground.

On your way out, look at the still of the initial catch made by Jennings and take a gander at Tate's hands.... Yup.... They aren't even touching the ball. They are touching Jennings forearms.

[BigCatDaddy]

The Seahawks got a gift W. Just enjoy it man. It's better then being the screwy.

Originally Posted by Joe "Simultaneous Possession' Seahawk

You don't posess the ball until you have satisfied the elements of posession.

Those elements are satisfied when a player:
•"Secures control of the ball in his hands or arms prior to the ball touching the ground."
•"Touches the ground inbounds with both feet or any body part other than his hands."
•"Maintains control of the ball long enough to perform any act common to the game (i.e., maintaining control long enough to pitch it, pass it, advance with it or avoid or ward off an opponent, etc.)."

Tate achieves the elements of posession first, therefore it's a TD. simple as that see pic above.

The way this seems to be used is Green Bay is being punished because their player achieved more air or timed his jump differently than Tate. I don't think that is the "spirit of the rule". There's no race to jump, catch and reach the ground with both feet first. That is ridiculous. You're right, you are drinking the koolaid.