Football Romo/Rivers/Cutler..career losers or franchise QBs? - Page 24

Deberg_1990 · 10-07-2013, 03:57 PM

Whats your take on these guys? Would these guys be 5-0 on the Chiefs.....or do they make too many mistakes and turnovers in critical situations? Sure, they put up great "box scores" , but so did Jeff George......

htismaqe · 12-18-2013, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gadzooks

Criteria:
Mile High's Syphilis has advanced to the point where the infection has caused severe problems with his heart, brain and and nerves. He's bordering on paralysis, blindness, dementia, deafness and impotence.
Through charitable donations, he has been granted an expansion team and has made me the GM, knowing he only has a year to live.
The expansion draft is open to all players. The players will be given a new playbook based on the coach that is hired.

In no particular order...

Group One
Philip Rivers

Couldn't even read the rest.

**Gadzooks** · 12-18-2013, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

Dunno about all that... it's clear that you have much hate for Eli and Ben. Putting Rivers in group 1 and the other two where you did... I dunno, homer much?

I have no hate for Ben, hence his place on the list. Putting Rivers in Group 1 would be statistically relevant right now.

Mile High Mania · 12-18-2013, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gadzooks

I have no hate for Ben, hence his place on the list. Putting Rivers in Group 1 would be statistically relevant right now.

Ok, I am looking at the body of work... Huge disconnect with the weekly fantasy type ranking you are using.

**Gadzooks** · 12-18-2013, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

Ok, I am looking at the body of work... Huge disconnect with the weekly fantasy type ranking you are using.

It seems that when you look at the body of work you focus on the player's W/L record, playoff appearances and SB wins. While ideally these things would come automatically to the top QBs, circumstantially it's not always the case, (Marino).
We don't tend to rate Guards based on this criteria but for some reason you're focusing on it as criteria for QBs.

-King- · 12-18-2013, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

Hard for me to fathom how you have Wilson lower than Luck and Newton... and putting them on par with Ben is odd to me.

Because Wilson is a game manager. A very good one but at this point in his career he's a rich mans Alex Smith. Luck and Newton are pretty close to elite and are the best 2 young QBs in the league. They are the ones who drive the team.
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**dirk digler** · 12-18-2013, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -King-

No they are not. Don't they both have more picks than TDs? Seriously, apart from last post season, when has Flacco looked like more than a barely above average QB in his career?
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Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Um, no.

We will agree to disagree. Both Newton and Wilson barely have 3000 yds passing. Alex Smith has more than they do. They may end up better than those guys but Flacco and Eli have won alot of big games something neither Wilson and Newton have done yet, I just can't discount that.

htismaqe · 12-18-2013, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler

We will agree to disagree. Both Newton and Wilson barely have 3000 yds passing. Alex Smith has more than they do. They may end up better than those guys but Flacco and Eli have won alot of big games something neither Wilson and Newton have done yet, I just can't discount that.

You said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler

Manning and Flacco are overall better than Wilson and Cam right now.

The big games that Flacco and Eli have won in the past don't matter RIGHT NOW.

Wilson and Newton are better RIGHT NOW.

**dirk digler** · 12-18-2013, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

You said:

The big games that Flacco and Eli have won in the past don't matter RIGHT NOW.

Wilson and Newton are better RIGHT NOW.

I was meaning their entire body of work right now.

This season no question Cam and Russell are having better years. Eli has more INT's than both of those guys combined.

Mile High Mania · 12-18-2013, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gadzooks

It seems that when you look at the body of work you focus on the player's W/L record, playoff appearances and SB wins. While ideally these things would come automatically to the top QBs, circumstantially it's not always the case, (Marino).
We don't tend to rate Guards based on this criteria but for some reason you're focusing on it as criteria for QBs.

I referenced the playoffs in my commentary, but didn't use them as any of the items after creating my groupings.

I didn't even look at the stats and compare them prior to grouping them. I looked at the names and considered what I have seen and what I know of them from the past however many years they've been in the league. After I grouped them, then I looked for and posted those career stats for W/L, completion %, Yards, TD/INT...

So, those stats didn't go into my groupings, but they (for the most part) supported what I was thinking.

You see my top groupings and jump to the SB conclusion, which is fine. However, you never mentioned anyone that I snubbed aside from Rivers, you just harped on the SB thing (which wasn't a factor) and screamed about Rivers while appearing to have serious issues with Eli and Ben.

In all honesty, Rivers was the one I had difficulty slotting between 2/3... but in the end, as I compared him to the others (and not just a stats war), I honestly couldn't justify moving him to 2 without dragging one of the others along. So, I kept him in 3... and I think he fits, by no means is it a knock. Rivers is a top 10-12 QB annually and that's about where he falls here.

Regarding Wilson, Newton, Luck --- I basically said they're floaters at this point. That whole group could very well leapfrog the likes of Stafford, Ryan, Romo, Cutler and even Rivers.

But, based on what I've seen and how I feel about those QBs ... I had had to pick a QB between the groups I listed, I'd go to the first 2 areas first. I like Rivers, Stafford and Ryan - as well as some of the newer QBs. But, if I had to pick one of them to lead a team that could contend, gimme one of the guys in the first two groups.

(no order of preference, just listing them)

Group 1
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Drew Brees
Aaron Rodgers

Group 2
Eli Manning
Joe Flacco
Ben Roethlisberger

Group 3
Phillip Rivers
Matthew Stafford
Matt Ryan
Tony Romo
Jay Cutler

Too early to slot, but float in the 2/3 range...
Andrew Luck
Andy Dalton
Russell Wilson
Cam Newton
Colin Kaepernick

Not sure what to do with them...
Alex Smith
Ryan Tannehill
RGIII
Nick Foles

**Gadzooks** · 12-18-2013, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

You see my top groupings and jump to the SB conclusion, which is fine. However, you never mentioned anyone that I snubbed aside from Rivers, you just harped on the SB thing (which wasn't a factor) and screamed about Rivers while appearing to have serious issues with Eli and Ben.

Again, I have no problem with Ben, he's developed into a fine QB and was on my list, albeit much lower ranked than you have him. By having Eli and Flacco in Group 2 you're snubbing all of group 3 who are as good if not better than those 2 statistically. The only differentiating factor is the fact that they've won SBs.
BTW - I didn't scream..

Mile High Mania · 12-18-2013, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gadzooks

Again, I have no problem with Ben, he's developed into a fine QB and was on my list, albeit much lower ranked than you have him. By having Eli and Flacco in Group 2 you're snubbing all of group 3 who are as good if not better than those 2 statistically. The only differentiating factor is the fact that they've won SBs.
BTW - I didn't scream..

I'm not judging it all on stats... lots of other things come into play.

O.city · 12-18-2013, 11:01 AM

It's not as if Cam has had some revolution this year. He's been this good since he's been in th eleague, their D has just sucked.

I guess you could say he's improved from the pocket some, but again, he hasn't ever been as bad as some would make it out to be.

Mile High Mania · 12-18-2013, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

It's not as if Cam has had some revolution this year. He's been this good since he's been in th eleague, their D has just sucked.

I guess you could say he's improved from the pocket some, but again, he hasn't ever been as bad as some would make it out to be.

Cam's not bad at all, he could use an upgrade or two around him though... and that's not a knock on him, but he doesn't have a lot of talent out there with him.

O.city · 12-18-2013, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

Cam's not bad at all, he could use an upgrade or two around him though... and that's not a knock on him, but he doesn't have a lot of talent out there with him.

Absolutely.

As much as I wish the CHiefs would have done it, the Panthers should have thrown a first at the Browns for Josh Gordon.

Mile High Mania · 12-18-2013, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Absolutely.

As much as I wish the CHiefs would have done it, the Panthers should have thrown a first at the Browns for Josh Gordon.

I wonder how much they're projected to be under the cap next season.

10-07-2013, 03:57 PM
Deberg_1990 In Search of a Life Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Antonio Tx. Casino cash: $3614454	Romo/Rivers/Cutler..career losers or franchise QBs? Whats your take on these guys? Would these guys be 5-0 on the Chiefs.....or do they make too many mistakes and turnovers in critical situations? Sure, they put up great "box scores" , but so did Jeff George......
Posts: 66,914

12-18-2013, 11:01 AM	#357
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $2404064	It's not as if Cam has had some revolution this year. He's been this good since he's been in th eleague, their D has just sucked. I guess you could say he's improved from the pocket some, but again, he hasn't ever been as bad as some would make it out to be.
Posts: 81,534