These "parents" should face criminal charges - Page 26

**DaneMcCloud** · 03-27-2008, 07:12 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080328/...s_death_prayer

Parents pick prayer over docs; girl dies

WESTON, Wis. - Police are investigating an 11-year-old girl's death from an undiagnosed, treatable form of diabetes after her parents chose to pray for her rather than take her to a doctor.

An autopsy showed Madeline Neumann died Sunday of diabetic ketoacidosis, a condition that left too little insulin in her body, Everest Metro Police Chief Dan Vergin said.

She had probably been ill for about a month, suffering symptoms such as nausea, vomiting, excessive thirst, loss of appetite and weakness, the chief said Wednesday, noting that he expects to complete the investigation by Friday and forward the results to the district attorney.

The girl's mother, Leilani Neumann, said that she and her family believe in the Bible and that healing comes from God, but that they do not belong to an organized religion or faith, are not fanatics and have nothing against doctors.

She insisted her youngest child, a wiry girl known to wear her straight brown hair in a ponytail, was in good health until recently.

"We just noticed a tiredness within the past two weeks," she said Wednesday. "And then just the day before and that day (she died), it suddenly just went to a more serious situation. We stayed fast in prayer then. We believed that she would recover. We saw signs that to us, it looked like she was recovering."

Her daughter — who hadn't seen a doctor since she got some shots as a 3-year-old, according to Vergin — had no fever and there was warmth in her body, she said.

The girl's father, Dale Neumann, a former police officer, said he started CPR "as soon as the breath of life left" his daughter's body.

Family members elsewhere called authorities to seek help for the girl.

"My sister-in-law, she's very religious, she believes in faith instead of doctors ...," the girl's aunt told a sheriff's dispatcher Sunday afternoon in a call from California. "And she called my mother-in-law today ... and she explained to us that she believes her daughter's in a coma now and she's relying on faith."

The dispatcher got more information from the caller and asked whether an ambulance should be sent.

"Please," the woman replied. "I mean, she's refusing. She's going to fight it. ... We've been trying to get her to take her to the hospital for a week, a few days now."

The aunt called back with more information on the family's location, emergency logs show. Family friends also made a 911 call from the home. Police and paramedics arrived within minutes and immediately called for an ambulance that took her to a hospital.

But less than an hour after authorities reached the home, Madeline — a bright student who left public school for home schooling this semester — was declared dead.

She is survived by her parents and three older siblings.

"We are remaining strong for our children," Leilani Neumann said. "Only our faith in God is giving us strength at this time."

The Neumanns said they moved from California to a modern, middle-class home in woodsy Weston, just outside Wassau in central Wisconsin, about two years ago to open a coffee shop and be closer to other relatives. A basketball hoop is set up in the driveway.

Leilani Neumann said she and her husband are not worried about the investigation because "our lives are in God's hands. We know we did not do anything criminal. We know we did the best for our daughter we knew how to do."

Jenson71 · 03-30-2008, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a1na2

Do a google and go to their site. that's how I found it and the quote was directly from their site.

No you do not know more about the disease than they do. I have doubts that you even know more than the Neumans.

I'm sure it was. I'm sure they would agree with me that people need insulin and water to live.

Jenson71 · 03-30-2008, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a1na2

Clearly needs it in your eyes. You are still trying to impress your values on them and that is not reality.

Your views and beliefs have no ground with that family.

Yes, I am stressing those damned "values" of getting a sick child medical help on to them and everyone else if the opportunity is there. That's very realistic. Common sense has no ground with that family. So I complain and ask their children be taken away.

a1na2 · 03-30-2008, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenson71

Yes, I am stressing those damned "values" of getting a sick child medical help on to them and everyone else if the opportunity is there. That's very realistic. Common sense has no ground with that family. So I complain and ask their children be taken away.

You can stress your values all you want but you cannot force your values on others, no where, no time.

Realistic? If you want to be realistic and feel that your values have to be adhered to by the Neumans I have but one question. Where were you when the symptoms started showing in their little girl? Where was you wisdom and common sense to share with them and to teach them at the time the girl was getting sicker?

It is not the Neumans that should be prosecuted for neglect, it is you.

milkman · 03-30-2008, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a1na2

You can stress your values all you want but you cannot force your values on others, no where, no time.

Realistic? If you want to be realistic and feel that your values have to be adhered to by the Neumans I have but one question. Where were you when the symptoms started showing in their little girl? Where was you wisdom and common sense to share with them and to teach them at the time the girl was getting sicker?

It is not the Neumans that should be prosecuted for neglect, it is you.

This is the stupidest ****ing post ever.

a1na2 · 03-30-2008, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenson71

I'm sure it was. I'm sure they would agree with me that people need insulin and water to live.

You are deflecting. You commented on my quote and said that they were wrong. Prove that their site did not say that you MAY need insulin and medical attention.

On second thought I agree.

Live with your smugness and willingness to perpetuate the big brother mentality.

Let's find the next issue that you know more than those that are responsible and we can get them in jail too.

You might make a list, we can big brother the world to extinction by imposing our beliefs and opinions where it is not wanted or needed.

a1na2 · 03-30-2008, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

This is the stupidest ****ing post ever.

Considering that you and Jenson feel that you know better than the family that had the kid it is not stupid. You both are responsible for the kid's death because you did not intervene when the kid was dying.

milkman · 03-30-2008, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a1na2

Considering that you and Jenson feel that you know better than the family that had the kid it is not stupid. You both are responsible for the kid's death because you did not intervene when the kid was dying.

You're a ****ing moron.

I'm not surprised that reading comprehension is beyond your grasp.

Jenson71 · 03-30-2008, 12:50 PM

Let the record stand that a1na2 has gone from the parents should be in no trouble at all because of their freedom of religion to me being prosecuted for the girl's death.

a1na2 · 03-30-2008, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

You're a ****ing moron.

I'm not surprised that reading comprehension is beyond your grasp.

Milkman retorts with name calling, the sure sign that he cannot understand what is going on.

Too bad, for him.

Just for the record, do you have enough ability to understand that the whole point here is that what happened is none of your business and that your moral outrage is nothing?

I didn't think so.

a1na2 · 03-30-2008, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenson71

Let the record stand that a1na2 has gone from the parents should be in no trouble at all because of their freedom of religion to me being prosecuted for the girl's death.

That shows just how little you understand the ignorance of your stand against the parents. You, and your beliefs, concerns and desires to have them jailed still remain in the NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.

If you really want those people to be responsible for their actions, you be responsible for the lack of understanding you have of the situation.

How they reacted to their childs sickness, beit a religious belief, a personal disdain for doctors or that they felt they were doing all that needed to be done falls under the category of not being any of your business. If you want to stick your nose into it take the responsibility that you claim they do not have.

If I were you I'd live some life and gain some kind of experience before you claim to be all knowing.

milkman · 03-30-2008, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a1na2

Milkman retorts with name calling, the sure sign that he cannot understand what is going on.

Too bad, for him.

Just for the record, do you have enough ability to understand that the whole point here is that what happened is none of your business and that your moral outrage is nothing?

I didn't think so.

I retorted with name calling because you are too ****ing stupid to understand that I didn't react to this story with moral outrage.

I couldn't give a rat's ass about the kid.

It's a tragedy, but I don't know her.

My only reaction is that cases like these will eventually lead to lawmakers making laws, because there will be moral outrage, and that's what lawmakers do.

Impose their standards on society.

a1na2 · 03-30-2008, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

You're a ****ing moron.

I never said my values should be pushed on the parents, dumbass.

Make your case of why you are so pissed off then.

Those people did what they felt right and just about every one here, you included by your responses, feel that they were criminal in their actions.

What causes you to feel that their actions were criminal? Were you there? Did you have a video of them neglecting the child as she was dying?

Come on, if you are going to accuse me of wrongdoing because I tell you that you are sticking your nose in others business where it is obviously not wanted or needed, I need to know why you feel it is in your purview to do so.

milkman · 03-30-2008, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a1na2

Make your case of why you are so pissed off then.

Those people did what they felt right and just about every one here, you included by your responses, feel that they were criminal in their actions.

What causes you to feel that their actions were criminal? Were you there? Did you have a video of them neglecting the child as she was dying?

Come on, if you are going to accuse me of wrongdoing because I tell you that you are sticking your nose in others business where it is obviously not wanted or needed, I need to know why you feel it is in your purview to do so.

I'm not pissed off at the parents.

I'm just generally pissed off all the time.

And I never said their actions were criminal.

I said their case, and cases like these will lead to laws, eventually, that will make similiar actions in the future, criminal.

a1na2 · 03-30-2008, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

I retorted with name calling because you are too ****ing stupid to understand that I didn't react to this story with moral outrage.

I couldn't give a rat's ass about the kid.

It's a tragedy, but I don't know her.

My only reaction is that cases like these will eventually lead to lawmakers making laws, because there will be moral outrage, and that's what lawmakers do.

Impose their standards on society.

That's not what you were illuding to, you claimed that they were wrong and that I should go along with that sentiment. I do not. I think that as parents they did what they could with what they had to do it with. They, for whatever reason (reasons we have no say in) did not choose to take the kid to a doctor.

What you have to ask them is did anyone in their immediate family ever go see a doctor due to illness. If they did, I'd agree that they were wrong. If they did not there is nothing to argue about and it is still none of our business.

a1na2 · 03-30-2008, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

I'm not pissed off at the parents.

I'm just generally pissed off all the time.

The only suggestion I have for you is to get over it.

03-27-2008, 07:12 PM
DaneMcCloud Supporter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Hollywood, CA Casino cash: $10053648	These "parents" should face criminal charges http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080328/...s_death_prayer Parents pick prayer over docs; girl dies WESTON, Wis. - Police are investigating an 11-year-old girl's death from an undiagnosed, treatable form of diabetes after her parents chose to pray for her rather than take her to a doctor. An autopsy showed Madeline Neumann died Sunday of diabetic ketoacidosis, a condition that left too little insulin in her body, Everest Metro Police Chief Dan Vergin said. She had probably been ill for about a month, suffering symptoms such as nausea, vomiting, excessive thirst, loss of appetite and weakness, the chief said Wednesday, noting that he expects to complete the investigation by Friday and forward the results to the district attorney. The girl's mother, Leilani Neumann, said that she and her family believe in the Bible and that healing comes from God, but that they do not belong to an organized religion or faith, are not fanatics and have nothing against doctors. She insisted her youngest child, a wiry girl known to wear her straight brown hair in a ponytail, was in good health until recently. "We just noticed a tiredness within the past two weeks," she said Wednesday. "And then just the day before and that day (she died), it suddenly just went to a more serious situation. We stayed fast in prayer then. We believed that she would recover. We saw signs that to us, it looked like she was recovering." Her daughter — who hadn't seen a doctor since she got some shots as a 3-year-old, according to Vergin — had no fever and there was warmth in her body, she said. The girl's father, Dale Neumann, a former police officer, said he started CPR "as soon as the breath of life left" his daughter's body. Family members elsewhere called authorities to seek help for the girl. "My sister-in-law, she's very religious, she believes in faith instead of doctors ...," the girl's aunt told a sheriff's dispatcher Sunday afternoon in a call from California. "And she called my mother-in-law today ... and she explained to us that she believes her daughter's in a coma now and she's relying on faith." The dispatcher got more information from the caller and asked whether an ambulance should be sent. "Please," the woman replied. "I mean, she's refusing. She's going to fight it. ... We've been trying to get her to take her to the hospital for a week, a few days now." The aunt called back with more information on the family's location, emergency logs show. Family friends also made a 911 call from the home. Police and paramedics arrived within minutes and immediately called for an ambulance that took her to a hospital. But less than an hour after authorities reached the home, Madeline — a bright student who left public school for home schooling this semester — was declared dead. She is survived by her parents and three older siblings. "We are remaining strong for our children," Leilani Neumann said. "Only our faith in God is giving us strength at this time." The Neumanns said they moved from California to a modern, middle-class home in woodsy Weston, just outside Wassau in central Wisconsin, about two years ago to open a coffee shop and be closer to other relatives. A basketball hoop is set up in the driveway. Leilani Neumann said she and her husband are not worried about the investigation because "our lives are in God's hands. We know we did not do anything criminal. We know we did the best for our daughter we knew how to do."
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03-30-2008, 12:50 PM	#383
Jenson71 fides quaerens intellectum Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: United States Casino cash: $8330900	Let the record stand that a1na2 has gone from the parents should be in no trouble at all because of their freedom of religion to me being prosecuted for the girl's death.
Posts: 15,986