Royals (New) 2013 Kansas City Royals Repository - Page 263

duncan_idaho · 08-15-2013, 08:13 AM

New thread, this time with more burst.

Proposed 2013 Slogan: Tigers: They're what's for dinner
Actual 2013 Slogan: Come to Play
A better, more accurate, or alternative slogan: All in, no panic, we promise.

Dayton Moore has pushed all his chips in and is riding on King/Jack suited, hoping it comes together, he gets some good luck, and he hits the nuts by the river card. There's potential, oh yes, there's potential. There's also risk.

At the midway point, Dayton is left counting on the river card. The flop and turn didn't help him, and he's looking at the Tigers holding a pair of Queens and the Indians holding a pair of 9s. His 2013 plan hasn't failed - yet - but the odds are not in his favor.

Burning questions updates below.

Burning Questions for 2013:

1) Will the improve rotation be improved enough? Does James Shields pitch like a fringe No. 1 away from Tampa Bay? Does Ervin Santana pitch to his highest upside in his walk year? Can Jeremy Guthrie build on his strong performance as a Royal in 2012? Can Wade Davis bring his new mentality- and velocity - back to the rotation?

Midseason check-in: Yes, the rotation is certainly improved enough. Shields has pitched like a fringe No. 1 and Santana is having his best season. Guthrie has horrible peripherals but has continued to perform well at his home park and eat innings on the road. Davis brought neither his kick-ass mentality or improved velocity back to the rotation and is in Luke Hochevar/Hiram Davies territory.

2) When will Luke Hochevar be shown the door?
Midseason check-in: It appears, never, at this point. Hochevar has been solid in non-leverage situations, though pretty much every time he has been used with men on base in an inning, it has been a disaster.

3) Does Hosmer bounce back?
Midseason check-in: It took some time, but Hosmer's performance from June 1 on is probably the most encouraging thing about the 2013 season so far.
4) Can Moustakas hit for a whole season like he did in the first half of 2012?
Midseason check-in: Nope. Moustakas was god-awful, then great for about 3 weeks, then god-awful again. He has been better since he started working with Brett and Grafol but still has a long way to go.
5) Who regresses?
Midseason check-in: Welp, Alicides Escobar is not a surprising name here (though Yost's stubborn insistence on hitting him second is ridiculous). Billy Butler is a surprise. He isn't having a terrible year - still contributing a lot to the offense - but he's not hitting for the average or power he has displayed over the past several years.
6) Who plays 2B?
Midseason check-in: A whole bunch of people, and not that great. Gio is at least getting a shot, though he once again is not doing much with it.
7) Can Jeff Francoeur be at least replacement level, rather than epic horrible level?
Midseason check-in: Hahahahahahahahahahaha
8) Will Dayton Moore survive to see 2014?
Midseason check-in: Outlook uncertain. Probably still around, unless the team completely tanks in the second half and he does something foolish. My guess - he sacrifices Ned Yost this offseason and gets one more shot with a new manager in 2014.
9) Will Danny Duffy come back healthy? And if he does, is he the same, better or worse?
Midseason check-in: Yes. Velocity looks the same, and it looks likely he is the same guy as before.
10) And the big one: Has KC added enough to run down the big-money Detroit Tigers?
Midseason check-in: Doesn't look like it, does it?

BigCatDaddy · 12-17-2013, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth

We did add an OF. We're going to be starting Gordon-Cain-Aoki. 4th/5th outfielder will be 2 of Lough/Maxwell/Dyson.

Santana is not up in the air, someone is going to throw a silly amount of money at him, lose a draft pick, and probably get burned for it. He hasn't signed yet because everyone's waiting on Tanaka.

Right. I thought they might move Aoki to CF and try to get a power hitting RF'er. I believe they were still shooting for Beltran after the Aoki signing.

duncan_idaho · 12-17-2013, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

Right. I thought they might move Aoki to CF and try to get a power hitting RF'er. I believe they were still shooting for Beltran after the Aoki signing.

Who would you add, though?

Choo is going to get a contract like Ellsbury. Cruz is going to get a deal that would be the biggest on the Royals.

Beyond those guys, unfortunately, there's just not much that adds value.

I know we all chuckled about it, but adding Aoki DOES change Alex Gordon's role for this team and deepen the middle of the lineup. Especially if Infante can post a good enough OBP out of the 2 hole to allow them to use Gordon at 3, 4 or 5.

I'd still go Aoki/Gordon/Butler/Hosmer/Perez/Infante, personally, but can live with Infante in the 2. Just don't LOVE anything that reduces the number of ABs Alex Gordon gets.

I should include one caveat about my Billy Butler statement from earlier (value vs. Lough/Dyson): Considering some of the stuff Kevin Towers has done, he might be an exception to the "not one" statement.

I mean, the guy DID trade Justin Upton for Martin Prado (basically) and Trevor Bauer for Didi Gregorious, so...

BigCatDaddy · 12-17-2013, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Who would you add, though?

Choo is going to get a contract like Ellsbury. Cruz is going to get a deal that would be the biggest on the Royals.

Beyond those guys, unfortunately, there's just not much that adds value.

I know we all chuckled about it, but adding Aoki DOES change Alex Gordon's role for this team and deepen the middle of the lineup. Especially if Infante can post a good enough OBP out of the 2 hole to allow them to use Gordon at 3, 4 or 5.

I'd still go Aoki/Gordon/Butler/Hosmer/Perez/Infante, personally, but can live with Infante in the 2. Just don't LOVE anything that reduces the number of ABs Alex Gordon gets.

I should include one caveat about my Billy Butler statement from earlier (value vs. Lough/Dyson): Considering some of the stuff Kevin Towers has done, he might be an exception to the "not one" statement.

I mean, the guy DID trade Justin Upton for Martin Prado (basically) and Trevor Bauer for Didi Gregorious, so...

I like the Aoki signing, but I really hope Cain can do a little more with the bat this year. If he struggles maybe a Dyson/Cain platoon?

duncan_idaho · 12-17-2013, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

I like the Aoki signing, but I really hope Cain can do a little more with the bat this year. If he struggles maybe a Dyson/Cain platoon?

I could see a Dyson/Cain platoon... really think health is important with Cain, so giving him more rest probably helps with that. He seems to be a guy whose swing gets bad in a hurry when he's battling day-to-day/nagging hurts.

Cain had a slight reverse split last year, really struggling against LHP and specifically, good changeups. So I don't know how much a true platoon system helps.

There's also a step down there in terms of defensive ability.

BigCatDaddy · 12-17-2013, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

I could see a Dyson/Cain platoon... really think health is important with Cain, so giving him more rest probably helps with that. He seems to be a guy whose swing gets bad in a hurry when he's battling day-to-day/nagging hurts.

Cain had a slight reverse split last year, really struggling against LHP and specifically, good changeups. So I don't know how much a true platoon system helps.

There's also a step down there in terms of defensive ability.

It seems there are a few ways they could go. Maybe Aoki in C and stick with the Maxwell/Lough RF platoon. Hopefully Cain picks it up and it's not a concern, but at least there are options.

tyton75 · 12-17-2013, 11:05 AM

I think we are pretty well setup now. Moose, Escobar and Cain have to get their shit in gear and start hitting the ball. If they can do that, even at a league average; we are going to do some damage this year.

**Anyong Bluth** · 12-17-2013, 12:13 PM

I at least can honestly say that I'm more excited about this upcoming season than I can recall - even though the 2004 season went to shit (the Juan Gonzalez year), I think that was the last time there was a general consensus that the Royals coming into the season were actually a reasonable pick to win their division.

A lot to take in from spring training, and how the pieces will fall in place, and if their impact will turn out to be a +?

But, I am as optimistic as can be that we can carry over from our 2nd half success after the All-Star break into this year, and see a bump in our plate production.

Sans Santana, no major subtraction- not to diminish that, but people are also weary that his up & down consistancy should be a reason to give pause to any longer term commitment - especially for this organization given the impact his dead money contact could submarine this roster.

Sure, I'd have loved if he would have taken a qualified minimum contract for 2-3 years at the $14 million, but on the brightside, that money not on the books may be possibly used for get an extension for Shields?

In turn, I have a good feeling that the pieces we brought in more than make his loss better than a zero sum gain as their impact can be found more than every fourth game.

I think we've got a few live arms that are going to pan out to give us a quality rotation. That's saying something considering 2 years ago we didn't even really have a true #1. It may not all happen this year, but I think we'll have a very good 1-4 rotation comprised of a few of our young and *cheap* arms that we'll have control of obviously afford for a while.

I'm going to call my shot and go out on a limb in saying that our boy, Yordano "Ace" Ventura, will give us a similar level of performance to trot out there on the mound as what we got out of Santana.

I will miss Ervin, because his enthusiasm and personality I think was a tremendous additional asset to his play- especially for a very young team that had quite a few ups and downs.

Plus, I know everyone is so anxious waiting with bated breath on what absurd and ridiculous shit will pour from the mouth of Rex Hudler!

Yes, that is Rex.

tk13 · 12-17-2013, 06:29 PM

Infante deal: $5M in '14 then $7.5M, $7.75M and $8M. $10M option for '18 with $2M buyout. #royals
— Jon Heyman (@JonHeymanCBS) December 18, 2013

**DeezNutz** · 12-17-2013, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

I could see a Dyson/Cain platoon... really think health is important with Cain, so giving him more rest probably helps with that. He seems to be a guy whose swing gets bad in a hurry when he's battling day-to-day/nagging hurts.

Cain had a slight reverse split last year, really struggling against LHP and specifically, good changeups. So I don't know how much a true platoon system helps.

There's also a step down there in terms of defensive ability.

I loathe Dyson defensively, no matter what the numbers say. His instincts are absolute shit.

**alnorth** · 12-18-2013, 09:38 AM

We probably shouldn't get our hopes up too high, but enough credible respected journalists are writing about how badly Santana's market value was damaged by the QO, that there could be a small chance that he has to come back to KC for a lot less money than he was hoping for.

I still think there are going to be a couple teams with more money than brains who are being quiet now that'll bid for him when Tanaka's situation gets resolved, but there are apparently more than a few mid and large-market teams who absolutely will not ever choose to lose the draft pick, and of those who would many of them don't have room for him.

One article I read today said the Royals moved on as soon as they heard that Santana was seeking $100MM, so if Santana ends up having no leverage and is forced to deal with KC, it'd have to be on our terms, probably a very backloaded multi-year contract where he gets very little in 2014, and then takes over James Shields spot in our payroll in 2015+.

It also doesn't hurt that he genuinely likes playing in KC, too.

**alnorth** · 12-18-2013, 09:53 AM

Rany wrote an awesome article about the Yankees that is almost mandatory reading. Kick back, relax, and enjoy, the Yankees could end up being really, really bad in 2014.

BlackHelicopters · 12-18-2013, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth

Rany wrote an awesome article about the Yankees that is almost mandatory reading. Kick back, relax, and enjoy, the Yankees could end up being really, really bad in 2014.

Read the article, but all I really care about is if the Royals are improved. Still, **** the Yankees.

Chiefspants · 12-18-2013, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth

We probably shouldn't get our hopes up too high, but enough credible respected journalists are writing about how badly Santana's market value was damaged by the QO, that there could be a small chance that he has to come back to KC for a lot less money than he was hoping for.

I still think there are going to be a couple teams with more money than brains who are being quiet now that'll bid for him when Tanaka's situation gets resolved, but there are apparently more than a few mid and large-market teams who absolutely will not ever choose to lose the draft pick, and of those who would many of them don't have room for him.

One article I read today said the Royals moved on as soon as they heard that Santana was seeking $100MM, so if Santana ends up having no leverage and is forced to deal with KC, it'd have to be on our terms, probably a very backloaded multi-year contract where he gets very little in 2014, and then takes over James Shields spot in our payroll in 2015+.

It also doesn't hurt that he genuinely likes playing in KC, too.

I would rather this situation play out with Shields next year. James will be older (meaning less market attention), and the Royals will hopefully be willing to offer him more money than they offered Ervin (due to Aoki, Davis and Hoch's contracts coming off the books). It's been said many times, but Santana pitched at the peak of his ability last year, while Shields' delivered the standard BGJ level of performance.

mr. tegu · 12-18-2013, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth

Rany wrote an awesome article about the Yankees that is almost mandatory reading. Kick back, relax, and enjoy, the Yankees could end up being really, really bad in 2014.

He wrote one last year too about their downfall coming in 2013. Sure they didn't make the playoffs but they were right there down the stretch.

tomahawk kid · 12-18-2013, 11:00 AM

Just like last year - I like the moves the Royals have made thus far, but still feel like they need one more, power bat.

The LOB stats last year were gross.

08-15-2013, 08:13 AM
duncan_idaho M-I-Z-Z-O-U Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Kansas City Casino cash: $270308	(New) 2013 Kansas City Royals Repository New thread, this time with more burst. Proposed 2013 Slogan: Tigers: They're what's for dinner Actual 2013 Slogan: Come to Play A better, more accurate, or alternative slogan: All in, no panic, we promise. Dayton Moore has pushed all his chips in and is riding on King/Jack suited, hoping it comes together, he gets some good luck, and he hits the nuts by the river card. There's potential, oh yes, there's potential. There's also risk. At the midway point, Dayton is left counting on the river card. The flop and turn didn't help him, and he's looking at the Tigers holding a pair of Queens and the Indians holding a pair of 9s. His 2013 plan hasn't failed - yet - but the odds are not in his favor. Burning questions updates below. Burning Questions for 2013: 1) Will the improve rotation be improved enough? Does James Shields pitch like a fringe No. 1 away from Tampa Bay? Does Ervin Santana pitch to his highest upside in his walk year? Can Jeremy Guthrie build on his strong performance as a Royal in 2012? Can Wade Davis bring his new mentality- and velocity - back to the rotation? Midseason check-in: Yes, the rotation is certainly improved enough. Shields has pitched like a fringe No. 1 and Santana is having his best season. Guthrie has horrible peripherals but has continued to perform well at his home park and eat innings on the road. Davis brought neither his kick-ass mentality or improved velocity back to the rotation and is in Luke Hochevar/Hiram Davies territory. 2) When will Luke Hochevar be shown the door? Midseason check-in: It appears, never, at this point. Hochevar has been solid in non-leverage situations, though pretty much every time he has been used with men on base in an inning, it has been a disaster. 3) Does Hosmer bounce back? Midseason check-in: It took some time, but Hosmer's performance from June 1 on is probably the most encouraging thing about the 2013 season so far. 4) Can Moustakas hit for a whole season like he did in the first half of 2012? Midseason check-in: Nope. Moustakas was god-awful, then great for about 3 weeks, then god-awful again. He has been better since he started working with Brett and Grafol but still has a long way to go. 5) Who regresses? Midseason check-in: Welp, Alicides Escobar is not a surprising name here (though Yost's stubborn insistence on hitting him second is ridiculous). Billy Butler is a surprise. He isn't having a terrible year - still contributing a lot to the offense - but he's not hitting for the average or power he has displayed over the past several years. 6) Who plays 2B? Midseason check-in: A whole bunch of people, and not that great. Gio is at least getting a shot, though he once again is not doing much with it. 7) Can Jeff Francoeur be at least replacement level, rather than epic horrible level? Midseason check-in: Hahahahahahahahahahaha 8) Will Dayton Moore survive to see 2014? Midseason check-in: Outlook uncertain. Probably still around, unless the team completely tanks in the second half and he does something foolish. My guess - he sacrifices Ned Yost this offseason and gets one more shot with a new manager in 2014. 9) Will Danny Duffy come back healthy? And if he does, is he the same, better or worse? Midseason check-in: Yes. Velocity looks the same, and it looks likely he is the same guy as before. 10) And the big one: Has KC added enough to run down the big-money Detroit Tigers? Midseason check-in: Doesn't look like it, does it?
Posts: 21,435

12-17-2013, 11:05 AM	#3936
tyton75 Veteran Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: KC North Casino cash: $5128386	I think we are pretty well setup now. Moose, Escobar and Cain have to get their shit in gear and start hitting the ball. If they can do that, even at a league average; we are going to do some damage this year. __________________
Posts: 3,289

12-17-2013, 12:13 PM	#3937
Anyong Bluth Deus ambulans inter homines Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago Casino cash: $9599340	I at least can honestly say that I'm more excited about this upcoming season than I can recall - even though the 2004 season went to shit (the Juan Gonzalez year), I think that was the last time there was a general consensus that the Royals coming into the season were actually a reasonable pick to win their division. A lot to take in from spring training, and how the pieces will fall in place, and if their impact will turn out to be a +? But, I am as optimistic as can be that we can carry over from our 2nd half success after the All-Star break into this year, and see a bump in our plate production. Sans Santana, no major subtraction- not to diminish that, but people are also weary that his up & down consistancy should be a reason to give pause to any longer term commitment - especially for this organization given the impact his dead money contact could submarine this roster. Sure, I'd have loved if he would have taken a qualified minimum contract for 2-3 years at the $14 million, but on the brightside, that money not on the books may be possibly used for get an extension for Shields? In turn, I have a good feeling that the pieces we brought in more than make his loss better than a zero sum gain as their impact can be found more than every fourth game. I think we've got a few live arms that are going to pan out to give us a quality rotation. That's saying something considering 2 years ago we didn't even really have a true #1. It may not all happen this year, but I think we'll have a very good 1-4 rotation comprised of a few of our young and cheap arms that we'll have control of obviously afford for a while. I'm going to call my shot and go out on a limb in saying that our boy, Yordano "Ace" Ventura, will give us a similar level of performance to trot out there on the mound as what we got out of Santana. I will miss Ervin, because his enthusiasm and personality I think was a tremendous additional asset to his play- especially for a very young team that had quite a few ups and downs. Plus, I know everyone is so anxious waiting with bated breath on what absurd and ridiculous shit will pour from the mouth of Rex Hudler! Yes, that is Rex. __________________ Suck it, *beautiful*
Posts: 14,918

12-17-2013, 06:29 PM	#3938
tk13 ... Join Date: Nov 2001 Casino cash: $512500	Infante deal: $5M in '14 then $7.5M, $7.75M and $8M. $10M option for '18 with $2M buyout. #royals — Jon Heyman (@JonHeymanCBS) December 18, 2013
Posts: 55,490

12-18-2013, 09:38 AM	#3940
alnorth . Join Date: Dec 2002 Casino cash: $57156239	We probably shouldn't get our hopes up too high, but enough credible respected journalists are writing about how badly Santana's market value was damaged by the QO, that there could be a small chance that he has to come back to KC for a lot less money than he was hoping for. I still think there are going to be a couple teams with more money than brains who are being quiet now that'll bid for him when Tanaka's situation gets resolved, but there are apparently more than a few mid and large-market teams who absolutely will not ever choose to lose the draft pick, and of those who would many of them don't have room for him. One article I read today said the Royals moved on as soon as they heard that Santana was seeking $100MM, so if Santana ends up having no leverage and is forced to deal with KC, it'd have to be on our terms, probably a very backloaded multi-year contract where he gets very little in 2014, and then takes over James Shields spot in our payroll in 2015+. It also doesn't hurt that he genuinely likes playing in KC, too. __________________ how many emo kids does it take to change a lightbulb? HOW MANY?! none they just sit in the dark and cry
Posts: 36,130

12-18-2013, 09:53 AM	#3941
alnorth . Join Date: Dec 2002 Casino cash: $57156239	Rany wrote an awesome article about the Yankees that is almost mandatory reading. Kick back, relax, and enjoy, the Yankees could end up being really, really bad in 2014. __________________ how many emo kids does it take to change a lightbulb? HOW MANY?! none they just sit in the dark and cry
Posts: 36,130

12-18-2013, 11:00 AM	#3945
tomahawk kid Drunk in the Neighborhood Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Beating the War Drums Casino cash: $10001837	Just like last year - I like the moves the Royals have made thus far, but still feel like they need one more, power bat. The LOB stats last year were gross.
Posts: 5,974