Chiefs How old was Rich Ganon before he was a franchise QB? - Page 3

SenselessChiefsFan · 10-12-2010, 08:24 PM

I keep reading how Cassel is 28 and he is in his sixth season and if he hasn't gotten it by now, he never will. Perhaps we should look at someone who had very similar numbers through his first six seasons.

Rich Gannon was drafted in 1987 by the Pats to be a defensive back. When he bristled at the idea, he was traded to Minnesota. In 1990, Gannon started 12 games. The Vikings had a 11-5 record, and the coaches went with Sean Salisbury. He played a lot over the years 1990-1992. He played in at least 12 games in each of those years, and never had more than 2278 yards. his passer rating was never more than 81.5. in 1990, he had 16 td's and 16 Int's. In 1991, he had 12 td's and 6 int's. in 1992, he had 12 Td's and 13 Int's. 1992 was his sixth season.

In 1993, he was picked up by the Redskins. He had three td's and seven interceptions. He played in only seven games. This was his seventh season.

His eighth season didn't come until 1995 because he was out of football in 1994. He had rotator cuff surgery in 1993, but no one was knocking down his door to get him under contract.

In 1995, Gannon worked out for the Chiefs and signed with the team as the BACKUP to Bono. He was a team player. A guy that would be the backup and not complain. A hard worker. The kind of player that coaches like.

He saw action in four games in 1996. He finally started to 'get it'. This was his 9th season. But, the Chiefs didn't have any faith in him and still went out and got Grbac. I believe Gannon signed a two year extension in 1996 because no one wanted him to be a starter.

Over the course of 1997 and 1998, he started a total of 16 games and played in a total of 21. His passer rating was about 80 over those two years. He threw for 3349 yards in those two seasons combined.

This was years 10 and 11.

The Raiders rewarded Gannon's mediocre numbers over his 11 seasons in the league with an opportunity to win the starting job.

We all know how it turned out.

This is a folk hero around these parts.... and yet, through his first 10 seasons, he was not an extremely accurate passer. He didn't throw downfield very well. He struggled to read defenses. And he was athletic.

Oh, AND he took a ton of sacks. He was sacked 302 times in 4206 pass attempts.

Heck, he wasn't even drafted to be a QB.

Through his first six seasons, Gannon had thrown 1003 passes. He had completed 561 passes. He completed 55.9% of his passes. He had 40 TD's and 36 Int's. He averaged 6.4 yards per attempt. He averaged 11.5 yards per completion. He had 81 sacks, or at about 8 percent of his pass attempts.

Through Cassel's first six seasons, he has thrown 1154 passes. He has completed 678 of them. He is completing 58.7% of his passes. He has 43 TD's. He has 32 Int's. He has averaged 6.5 yards per attempt. He has averaged 11.09 yards per completion. He has 96 sacks, which is about 8% of his pass attempts.

Will Cassel be Gannon? Probably not. But, Gannon wasn't Gannon until his 12th season in the league.... or twice as long as Cassel has been in the league...... That is when Gannon really got it and became a pro bowl QB.

stevieray · 10-12-2010, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Green had "put it together" before arriving in KC, but Rodney Harrison broke it apart.

The Green-Cassel comparisons hold no water

you brought it up..oh wait..you weren't being sincere...

SenselessChiefsFan · 10-12-2010, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Green had "put it together" before arriving in KC, but Rodney Harrison broke it apart.

The Green-Cassel comparisons hold no water, other than they both play QB, unfortunately for us as it pertains to Matt Edwards.

Yeah, Green was doing well in the preseason... and preseason stats never lie.

**Bane** · 10-12-2010, 08:49 PM

Great!Casshole should be pro bowl caliber by time we give him another $60 million contract.Cool!
Posted via Mobile Device

SenselessChiefsFan · 10-12-2010, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

2001, when Green was TrINT.

Okay, in 2001, our WR's were crap... but even in 2001, the Chiefs offensive line was better. The Chiefs had Holmes, Richardson and Gonzalez....which was more than they had last year.

**DeezNutz** · 10-12-2010, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

Their coat tails aren't as pervasive as the coat tails you are riding.

I wouldn't have even started to post in this thread unless I was confident you were going to be here.

**DeezNutz** · 10-12-2010, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan

Okay, in 2001, our WR's were crap... but even in 2001, the Chiefs offensive line was better. The Chiefs had Holmes, Richardson and Gonzalez....which was more than they had last year.

Roaf arrived in 2002, and this is when the line started its run as a dominant force. The current line is not nearly as good, but not even close to as bad as some would like to portray.

And 2001 Holmes wasn't the same, either, primarily b/c the staff didn't know what they had.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 10-12-2010, 08:54 PM

SenselessChiefsFan · 10-12-2010, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bane

Great!Casshole should be pro bowl caliber by time we give him another $60 million contract.Cool!
Posted via Mobile Device

I'm not even saying that. He may never be a pro bowler. Just showing how guys can develop over time.

In fact, there are more examples of late bloomers at the QB position than any other position in the NFL.

The reality is that the biggest factor in QB play is reading defenses. The best way to read defenses is to work hard and to get experience.

This isn't about me proclaiming that Cassel will be the next Gannon. The next Green. The next Warner.

This is just pointing out that guys learn and develop at different rates. Cassel is at a disadvantage due to his lack of time in college..... and riding the bench in NE for three years.

He is still only 28 and has only six years in the league.

SenselessChiefsFan · 10-12-2010, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Roaf arrived in 2002, and this is when the line started its run as a dominant force. The current line is not nearly as good, but not even close to as bad as some would like to portray.

And 2001 Holmes wasn't the same, either, primarily b/c the staff didn't know what they had.

I know this will get me flamed, but Cassel has done a good job of getting rid of the ball when nothing is open.

RustShack · 10-12-2010, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan

I know this will get me flamed, but Cassel has done a good job of getting rid of the ball when nothing is open.

Hes also done a bad job of throwing to open receivers.

SenselessChiefsFan · 10-12-2010, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Roaf arrived in 2002, and this is when the line started its run as a dominant force. The current line is not nearly as good, but not even close to as bad as some would like to portray.

And 2001 Holmes wasn't the same, either, primarily b/c the staff didn't know what they had.

In 2001, the line was still better than this one.

And, Holmes was great from the third game on in 2001.

The WR's did suck though.

In 2002, the entire offense was much better than the current offense.

patteeu · 10-12-2010, 09:04 PM

As impressive as your argument is, SensibleChiefsFan, it's clear that the facts it's based on don't fit the preferred narrative around here. The narrative must be maintained. I applaud your effort though.

It's pretty safe to proclaim in the most definitive and belligerent terms that Matt Cassel isn't the QB this team needs because in all likelihood he won't be. And if the stars align and he actually becomes a Gannon-like exception, it will be easy enough for these people to shrug their shoulders and say that they just made a mistake like everyone else does from time to time. It takes no courage and very little thought to join the Cassel-can't-cut-it chorus, but by joining the in-crowd you get to get in on a lot more high fives I guess.

**Bane** · 10-12-2010, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan

I'm not even saying that. He may never be a pro bowler. Just showing how guys can develop over time.

In fact, there are more examples of late bloomers at the QB position than any other position in the NFL.

The reality is that the biggest factor in QB play is reading defenses. The best way to read defenses is to work hard and to get experience.

This isn't about me proclaiming that Cassel will be the next Gannon. The next Green. The next Warner.

This is just pointing out that guys learn and develop at different rates. Cassel is at a disadvantage due to his lack of time in college..... and riding the bench in NE for three years.

He is still only 28 and has only six years in the league.

Great outlook,but IMO you're wrong about Cassel if you think that will ever be him.Its cool though,I understand what its like.I remember being a kid and tuning in every game thinking we had the best players and would be in the SB every year.Then I started paying more attention to the players,coaches and the game itself and I realized that train of thought is foolish.
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SenselessChiefsFan · 10-12-2010, 09:05 PM

This isn't an absolute comparison, just something to make some people think. Sorry, shouldn't have done that.

milkman · 10-12-2010, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan

This isn't an absolute comparison, just something to make some people think. Sorry, shouldn't have done that.

The NFL is littered with hundreds of QBs that never developed.

The Gannons, Warners and Plunkets of the world are exceptions.

I have no desire to wait years to find out of Cassel is one of those rare exceptions.

10-12-2010, 08:24 PM
SenselessChiefsFan MVP Join Date: Nov 2008 Casino cash: $10005450	How old was Rich Ganon before he was a franchise QB? I keep reading how Cassel is 28 and he is in his sixth season and if he hasn't gotten it by now, he never will. Perhaps we should look at someone who had very similar numbers through his first six seasons. Rich Gannon was drafted in 1987 by the Pats to be a defensive back. When he bristled at the idea, he was traded to Minnesota. In 1990, Gannon started 12 games. The Vikings had a 11-5 record, and the coaches went with Sean Salisbury. He played a lot over the years 1990-1992. He played in at least 12 games in each of those years, and never had more than 2278 yards. his passer rating was never more than 81.5. in 1990, he had 16 td's and 16 Int's. In 1991, he had 12 td's and 6 int's. in 1992, he had 12 Td's and 13 Int's. 1992 was his sixth season. In 1993, he was picked up by the Redskins. He had three td's and seven interceptions. He played in only seven games. This was his seventh season. His eighth season didn't come until 1995 because he was out of football in 1994. He had rotator cuff surgery in 1993, but no one was knocking down his door to get him under contract. In 1995, Gannon worked out for the Chiefs and signed with the team as the BACKUP to Bono. He was a team player. A guy that would be the backup and not complain. A hard worker. The kind of player that coaches like. He saw action in four games in 1996. He finally started to 'get it'. This was his 9th season. But, the Chiefs didn't have any faith in him and still went out and got Grbac. I believe Gannon signed a two year extension in 1996 because no one wanted him to be a starter. Over the course of 1997 and 1998, he started a total of 16 games and played in a total of 21. His passer rating was about 80 over those two years. He threw for 3349 yards in those two seasons combined. This was years 10 and 11. The Raiders rewarded Gannon's mediocre numbers over his 11 seasons in the league with an opportunity to win the starting job. We all know how it turned out. This is a folk hero around these parts.... and yet, through his first 10 seasons, he was not an extremely accurate passer. He didn't throw downfield very well. He struggled to read defenses. And he was athletic. Oh, AND he took a ton of sacks. He was sacked 302 times in 4206 pass attempts. Heck, he wasn't even drafted to be a QB. Through his first six seasons, Gannon had thrown 1003 passes. He had completed 561 passes. He completed 55.9% of his passes. He had 40 TD's and 36 Int's. He averaged 6.4 yards per attempt. He averaged 11.5 yards per completion. He had 81 sacks, or at about 8 percent of his pass attempts. Through Cassel's first six seasons, he has thrown 1154 passes. He has completed 678 of them. He is completing 58.7% of his passes. He has 43 TD's. He has 32 Int's. He has averaged 6.5 yards per attempt. He has averaged 11.09 yards per completion. He has 96 sacks, which is about 8% of his pass attempts. Will Cassel be Gannon? Probably not. But, Gannon wasn't Gannon until his 12th season in the league.... or twice as long as Cassel has been in the league...... That is when Gannon really got it and became a pro bowl QB.
Posts: 5,540

10-12-2010, 08:49 PM	#33
Bane C.H.I.E.F.S Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: **** your face Casino cash: $10005055	Great!Casshole should be pro bowl caliber by time we give him another $60 million contract.Cool! Posted via Mobile Device
Posts: 12,621

10-12-2010, 08:54 PM	#37
OnTheWarpath15 MVP Join Date: Sep 2005 Casino cash: $4781115
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10-12-2010, 09:04 PM	#42
patteeu The 23rd Pillar Join Date: Sep 2002 Casino cash: $10019237	As impressive as your argument is, SensibleChiefsFan, it's clear that the facts it's based on don't fit the preferred narrative around here. The narrative must be maintained. I applaud your effort though. It's pretty safe to proclaim in the most definitive and belligerent terms that Matt Cassel isn't the QB this team needs because in all likelihood he won't be. And if the stars align and he actually becomes a Gannon-like exception, it will be easy enough for these people to shrug their shoulders and say that they just made a mistake like everyone else does from time to time. It takes no courage and very little thought to join the Cassel-can't-cut-it chorus, but by joining the in-crowd you get to get in on a lot more high fives I guess. __________________ “Boy, you all want power. God, I hope you never get it.” - Lindsay Graham
Posts: 110,871

10-12-2010, 09:05 PM	#44
SenselessChiefsFan MVP Join Date: Nov 2008 Casino cash: $10005450	This isn't an absolute comparison, just something to make some people think. Sorry, shouldn't have done that. __________________ A bad day at the gym is better than a good day on the Couch.
Posts: 5,540