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Old 02-08-2006, 09:54 AM  
jspchief jspchief is offline
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NFL Draft Countdown Has Added Round 2

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sub/mockdraft.html

NFL Draft Countdown has added the second round to their mock. They have us taking a dude I know absolutely nothing about.
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Old 02-09-2006, 10:35 AM   #31
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BS.

Sims, Freeman, Sands. You can't get by with just size alone in the NFL. In college, yes.
Are you calling B.S. on this?...

"I think some are putting too much emphasis on his stats, instead of what the guy can actually do for a defensive line. He can clog up the middle and STUFF the run. He also commands a double-team, thus freeing up other lineman to get after the QB and HB."

I believe what I said is true about Gabe Watson.
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Old 02-09-2006, 11:06 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by BigChiefFan
Are you calling B.S. on this?...

"I think some are putting too much emphasis on his stats, instead of what the guy can actually do for a defensive line. He can clog up the middle and STUFF the run. He also commands a double-team, thus freeing up other lineman to get after the QB and HB."

I believe what I said is true about Gabe Watson.
I'm calling BS on the theory that at DT you can get away with a big guy who isn't athletic or doesn't try all the time. It isn't true or else Siavii would be a starter and all the Watson talk would be nonexistent.

I'm done debating Gabe Watson. If I were a GM I wouldn't use a first round pick on a player that takes plays off.
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Old 02-09-2006, 11:37 AM   #33
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I understand that some of you have questions about Gabe Watson. I do, too. I've looked over the last few posts and see what you all are saying about an entire collegiate career and there is certainly ALOT of merit to that. However, the one position, that you can get by without being super athletic and just be a mammoth boulder is the NT position.

I think some are putting too much emphasis on his stats, instead of what the guy can actually do for a defensive line. He can clog up the middle and STUFF the run. He also commands a double-team, thus freeing up other lineman to get after the QB and HB.
You may be able to get by without being super athletic, that's debatable.

But the one sure way to be a BIG BUST at DT in the NFL is to NOT TRY.

My beef with Watson is 100% that he's been notorious for taking plays (hell, sometimes whole drives) off...
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Old 02-09-2006, 12:41 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by htismaqe
You may be able to get by without being super athletic, that's debatable.

But the one sure way to be a BIG BUST at DT in the NFL is to NOT TRY.

My beef with Watson is 100% that he's been notorious for taking plays (hell, sometimes whole drives) off...
I don't think Gabe Watson is lazy. I don't even know how all of that started, maybe because he lost his starting job at one point, but...that is what the issue is, not whether or not the guy is talented. What makes you CERTAIN Watson is LAZY and that he takes plays off? I found an old article on Gabe Watson coming out of High School. Check it out...

Tuesday, August 14
Updated: August 15, 11:19 AM ET

Prospect profile: Gabe Watson

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Tom Lemming
Special to ESPN.com



Gabe Watson

It's awfully tough to put together a top 10 list, mainly because one tends to lean towards quarterbacks, running backs and wide receivers. Linemen are usually the forgotten players when it comes to selecting All-American teams, but every now and then there's a player who really stands out and garners accolades simply because he is that good. I believe Gabe Watson (6-4, 334, 4.9) of Southfield, Mich., is certainly that type of player.

He's a two-way tackle who's devastating against the run and shows the agility, quickness and strength to become a very effective pass rusher at defensive tackle in college. However, I believe Watson could become a superstar at offensive guard. When you combine his great size with his super quickness, tremendous strength and unusually good football sense, you've got yourself an All-American waiting to happen.

As a junior Watson totaled 78 tackles, eight QB sacks, one INT and 16 tackles for losses at defensive tackle. He's an exceptional run stopper with good flexibility, outstanding body control and a nose for the ball. He does a good job of taking on two and sometimes three blockers, penetrating and applying pressure on the quarterback.


On offense, he's a dominating run blocker who can bend his knees and stay with his defender until the whistle, an extremely aggressive player who loves to pancake defenders. This year I have not seen a better all-around offensive line prospect. He plays tackle in high school but his size, quickness and ability to pull and trap should make him a dominating guard in college. He bench-presses 405 pounds and in track he has thrown the shot put over 51 feet.

He's the consensus No. 1 player in the state of Michigan and in my mind the top offensive line prospect in the country. A testament to Watson's ability is the fact that he's been offered a scholarship by every school that has come to his high school to watch his film. When I recently met with Watson, he told me that Michigan is his leader, followed closely by Ohio State, Miami (Fla.), Nebraska, Michigan State, FSU, Tennessee and Minnesota. The Wolverines could be tough to beat; however, just about every powerhouse in the country will be giving it their best to land this two-way prep standout.
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Old 02-09-2006, 12:50 PM   #35
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What makes me think Watson is lazy is watching him play. I watch Michigan play about 6 times a year.
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Old 02-09-2006, 12:50 PM   #36
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I've watched enough Big 10 football to recognize that Watson disappears at times. Sometimes for entire games.

Maybe he'll change in the NFL, but he was very inconsistent in the effort put forth in college.
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Old 02-09-2006, 01:04 PM   #37
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So you guys think he's lazy. I don't think he is lazy. Problem solved.
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Old 02-09-2006, 01:18 PM   #38
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The guys who say he's lazy actually watched him this past year on Saturdays. The guy who says he isn't is relying on a high school scouting profile. Enough said.
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Old 02-09-2006, 01:28 PM   #39
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The guys who say he's lazy actually watched him this past year on Saturdays. The guy who says he isn't is relying on a high school scouting profile. Enough said.

If laziness is what you fear, then the contract could will be back loaded, and incentives based.
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Old 02-09-2006, 01:29 PM   #40
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Looks like some may disagree with you about Gabe Watson...

http://www.collegefootballnews.com/B...igTen_team.htm

2005 CFN All-Big Ten Team

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Team P.O.Y.s
Illinois
P S. Weatherford
Indiana
WR James Hardy
Iowa
LB C Greenway
Michigan
DT G. Watson
Michigan State
QB D Stanton
Minnesota
RB L. Maroney Team P.O.Y.s
Northwestern
QB B Basanez
Ohio State
LB A.J. Hawk
Penn State
QB M Robinson
Purdue
DE R Ninkovich
Wisconsin
DE Erasmus
Big Ten Player of the Year
Michael Robinson, QB Penn State
The stats weren't out-of-this-world, but Michael Robinson's leadership, clutch play, and running ability helped take Penn State from good to elite. He finished ninth in the Big Ten in rushing with 11 touchdowns, and threw 16 touchdown passes.

Defensive Player of the Year
A.J. Hawk, LB Ohio State
Iowa's Chad Greenway, and Penn State's Paul Posluszny and Tamba Hali all would be defensive players of the year in just about any other league, but Hawk lived up to all the hype with his steady, sometimes spectacular play finishing the year with 109 tackles, 7.5 sacks, 13 tackles for loss, an interception and two forced fumbles.

Scroll down for the All-Big Ten Team and Top 30 players regardless of position
2004 CFN All-Big Ten Team | 2003 CFN All-Big Ten Team | 2002 CFN All-Big Ten Team | 2001 CFN All-Big Ten Team

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Coach of the year - Joe Paterno, Penn State
Best Big Ten game - Sep 24 - Minn. 42 ... Purdue 35 2OT
Worst Big Ten game - Oct. 22 - Penn State 63 ... Illinois 10
Freshman of the year - Northwestern RB Tyrell Sutton
Best Performance - Oct. 8. Northwestern RB Tyrell Sutton ran 29 times for 244 yards and three touchdowns and caught two passes for nine yards and a score in the 51-48 win over Wisconsin. Wildcat LB Tim McGarigle made 25 tackles.
Biggest Surprise: Penn State. Everyone thought Penn State would be a bowl team thanks to its defense, but no one had a clue the offense would be as efficient as it was leading the way to the Big Ten title and within a fingernail of the national championship.
Biggest Disappointment: Purdue. With everyone returning on defense, no Ohio State or Michigan on the schedule, and an explosive offense, this was Purdue's year to take the Big Ten by storm. Not only didn't it happen, but the Boilermakers didn't go to a bowl game in one of the most puzzling collapses this season.

2005 Collegefootballnews.com All-Big Ten Team

Offense
QB - Michael Robinson, Sr. Penn State
RB - Brian Calhoun, Jr. Wisconsin
RB - Laurence Maroney, Jr. Minnesota
WR - Jason Avant, Sr. Michigan
WR - Santonio Holmes, Jr. Ohio State
TE - Matt Spaeth, Jr. Minnesota
OL - Greg Eslinger, Sr. Minnesota
OL - Mark Setterstrom, Sr. Minnesota
OL - Adam Stenavich, Sr. Michigan
OL - Zach Strief, Sr. Northwestern
OL - Joe Thomas, Jr. Wisconsin
PK - Josh Houston, Sr. Ohio State
KR - Ted Ginn Jr., Soph. Ohio State Defense
DL - Tamba Hali, Sr. Penn State
DL - Mike Kudla, Sr. Ohio State
DL - Rob Ninkovich, Sr. Purdue
DL - Gabe Watson, Sr. Michigan
LB - Chad Greenway, Sr. Iowa
LB - A.J. Hawk, Sr. Sr. Ohio State
LB - Paul Posluszny, Jr. Penn State
DB - Jovon Johnson, Sr. Iowa
DB - Calvin Lowery, Sr. Penn State
DB - Ashton Youboty, Jr. Ohio State
DB - Alan Zemaitis, Sr. Penn State
P - Ken DeBauche, Soph. Wisconsin
PR - Brandon Williams, Sr. Wisconsin

Top 30 players regardless of position
Based on the season the player had
1. QB Michael Robinson, Sr. Penn State
2. LB A.J. Hawk, Sr. Ohio State
3. RB Laurence Maroney, Jr. Minnesota
4. LB Chad Greenway, Sr. Iowa
5. LB Paul Posluszny, Jr. Penn State
6. RB Brian Calhoun, Jr. Wisconsin
7. QB Troy Smith, Jr. Ohio State
8. QB Brett Basanez, Sr. Northwestern
9. RB Tyrell Sutton, Fr. Northwestern
10. DE Tamba Hali, Sr. Penn State
11. RB Albert Young, Soph. Iowa
12. LB Tim McGarilgle, Sr. Northwestern
13. LB Abdul Hodge, Sr. Iowa
14. C Greg Eslinger, Sr. Minnesota
15. CB Alan Zemaitis, Sr. Penn State
16. DT Gabe Watson, Sr. Michigan
17. OT Joe Thomas, Jr. Wisconsin
18. QB Drew Stanton, Sr. Michigan State
19. WR Jason Avant, Sr. Michigan
20. CB Ashton Youboty, Jr. Ohio State
21. WR Santonio Holmes, Jr. Ohio State
22. LB Bobby Carpenter, Sr. Ohio State
23. WR Dorien Bryant, Soph. Purdue
24. WR James Hardy, Fr. Indiana
25. SS Calvin Lowry, Sr. Penn State
26. TE Matt Spaeth, Jr. Minnesota
27. CB Jovon Johnson, Sr. Iowa
28. S Nate Salley, Sr. Ohio State
29. QB Drew Tate, Jr. Iowa
30. QB Chad Henne, Jr. Michigan Top Quarterbacks
1. M. Robinson, PSU
2. Troy Smith, Ohio St
3. Brett Basanez, NW
4. Drew Stanton, MSU
5. Drew Tate, Iowa Top Running Backs
1. L. Maroney, Minnesota
2. Brian Calhoun, Wisc.
3. Tyrell Sutton, NW
4. Albert Young, Iowa
5. Antonio Pittman, OSU
Top Receivers
1. Jason Avant, Michigan
2. Santonio Holmes, OSU
3. Dorien Bryant, Purdue
4. James Hardy, Indiana
5. Brandon Williams, UW Top Offensive Linemen
1. Greg Eslinger, Minn.
2. Joe Thomas, Wisc.
3. M. Setterstrom, Minn.
4. Adam Stenavich, Mich.
5. Zach Strief, Nwestern
Top Defensive Linemen
1. Tamba Hali, Penn State
2. Gabe Watson, Mich.
3. Mike Kudla, Ohio St
4. Rob Ninkovich, Purd.
5. Ken Iwebema, Iowa Top Linebackers
1. A.J. Hawk, Ohio St
2. Chad Greenway, Iowa
3. Paul Posluszny, PSU
4. Tim McGarigle, NW
5. Abdul Hodge, Iowa
Top Defensive Backs
1. Alan Zemaitis, PSU
2. Ashton Youboty, OSU
3. Calvin Lowry, PSU
4. Jovon Johnson, Iowa
5. Nate Salley, OSU Top Kickers
1. PK Josh Huston, OSU
2. PK K. Schlicher, Iowa
3. P Ken DeBauche, UW
4. P Steve Weaterhford, Ill
5. P Tyson Beattie, IU



They have rated as the best NT in the Big-10 and Player Of the Year for his team.
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Old 02-09-2006, 01:39 PM   #41
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Looks like some may disagree with you about Gabe Watson...

They have rated as the best NT in the Big-10 and Player Of the Year for his team.
1) This wasn't a big year for defensive tackles in the Big 10. Alot of teams, like Iowa, are very young up front. Him being the best DT in the Big 10 says more about the lack of talent at the position more than anything about him.

2) He was PotY on a Michigan team that was one of the worst any Michigan fan can remember. Not exactly a huge honor.
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Old 02-09-2006, 01:40 PM   #42
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If laziness is what you fear, then the contract could will be back loaded, and incentives based.
The #20 overall pick isn't gonna agree to that kind of a contract out-of-hand. More than likely, he'd just hold out.

It's much easier to get a 2nd-round pick to agree to such a contract.
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Old 02-09-2006, 01:41 PM   #43
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If laziness is what you fear, then the contract could will be back loaded, and incentives based.
And face a holdout. Contracts are based on slotting and based upon the previous years signings. Add a modest percentage to last years #20 and you have Watson's numbers.
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Old 02-09-2006, 01:46 PM   #44
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1) This wasn't a big year for defensive tackles in the Big 10. Alot of teams, like Iowa, are very young up front. Him being the best DT in the Big 10 says more about the lack of talent at the position more than anything about him.

2) He was PotY on a Michigan team that was one of the worst any Michigan fan can remember. Not exactly a huge honor.
It still doesn't discount how many DTs are in the BIG 10 and he was the consensus BEST at the position. I'm just showing you, that alot of other people watch the BIG 10, as well, and seem to think he's a damn good player, in fact the best in the conference at his position. POY also speaks volumes. How many LAZY players are considered POY for their team?
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Old 02-09-2006, 01:54 PM   #45
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It still doesn't discount how many DTs are in the BIG 10 and he was the consensus BEST at the position. I'm just showing you, that alot of other people watch the BIG 10, as well, and seem to think he's a damn good player, in fact the best in the conference at his position. POY also speaks volumes. How many LAZY players are considered POY for their team?
1) There are alot of DT's in the Big 10. That doesn't mean all of them, or even any of them, are good. Being the BEST at a shitty position could mean that you're still shitty, just not as shitty as the rest. The next-best DT in the Big 10, according to most, is Cofield out of Northwestern. Most of the scouting services have him rated as a 5th-round pick.

2) He was declared PoY by that service you quoted. They aren't coaches and they aren't his teammates.

3) I never said he wasn't a damn good player. I said before he has the ability to be one of the best DT's in the game. The problem is that he doesn't play like that every down. How many LAZY players have awards heaped on them? I'm sure Chester McGlockton did.
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Tarrant County, Texas and Johnson County, Texas.
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