Sizing up the DT's - Page 3

Mecca · 01-22-2008, 08:16 PM

January 22, 2008

If you have ever watched the National Geographic Channel, you would know that the grizzly bear is a fearsome creature. When the grizzly bear stands on its hind legs, you know you are in trouble but don’t try to run because the grizzly bear is violently quick, running at an alarming 35 miles per hour.

In the 2008 draft, there are two defensive tackles that resemble grizzly bears. Louisiana State’s Glenn Dorsey and Southern Cal’s Sedrick Ellis are two of the most feared DTs to come out in the same year since 1994 when Dan Wilkinson and Bryant Young both went within the first seven selections of the NFL Draft.

One on One

When we break down the tape, both Dorsey and Ellis are fierce linemen with more physical tools than any highly regarded defensive tackle since Tommie Harris in 2004. We won’t get a confirmed height and weight for Glenn Dorsey until the NFL Combine, but he is reportedly 6’2”, 303 lbs. At the Senior Bowl, Sedrick Ellis sized in at 6’0”, 308 lbs.

LSU’s Glenn Dorsey recorded 7 sacks, 12.5 tackles for a loss, and 69 total tackles as a senior in 2007. He also forced 1 fumble, hurried the quarterback 3 times, and broke up 3 passes. Dorsey may have the ideal frame for a defensive tackle but his quickness is similar to a defensive end’s. He does well as a pass rusher and usually was double teamed in 2007. Despite playing hurt most of 2007, Dorsey managed to change the momentum of games, especially against South Carolina. Dorsey’s arm length doesn’t wow scouts but the ability to dominate in one-on-one situations and swallow any gap around him makes up for what he lacks physically.

The Trojans have had a hidden gem in Sedrick Ellis for some time but he didn’t begin to garnish national attention until his senior year. In 2007, Ellis filled up his stat sheet with 8.5 sacks, 12.5 tackles for a loss and 58 total tackles. He also had 1 quarterback hurry and 7 passes broken up. Ellis isn’t as big height-wise as scouts like, but his extraterrestrial strength and speed makes him a highly regarded prospect. He is very instinctive and leads with a very quick first step. Watching Ellis is like watching a fundamental video on how to shed blocks. He possesses sound techniques and has top-notch intangibles. Like Dorsey, Ellis has had injury problems, breaking his ankle in 2003 and injuring his left knee in 2006. When it comes to disrupting the fluidity on offense for opponents, there is not one prospect in this draft that can do that like Sedrick Ellis.

Natural Habitat

Unlike Ellis, Glenn Dorsey would be better suited for just the 4-3 defensive scheme. As you can see, Ellis could play in both the 3-4 and 4-3. Dorsey is solid in shedding blockers but isn’t the nose tackle prospect Haloti Ngata was a couple of years’ back. Meanwhile, Sedrick Ellis is a hog at both positions, relinquishing the power that the center and guards may have on him and dominating the trenches.

While you may be confused and start to wonder, how is Dorsey more highly regarded than Ellis? He simply isn’t. As you read this, there are scouts and pro personnel breaking down film trying to decipher who is better suited for what and who has shown more weakness than the other. At the end of the day, it may be a push. Dorsey has a quicker first step and may use his hands better than Ellis but Ellis is quicker to dominate a double-team than Dorsey. Both DTs have played through injuries during their time in school and both have anchored a BCS defense.

Conclusion

If there were any fair comparison’s to current NFL DTs, I would put Glenn Dorsey in the Kevin Williams category and place Sedrick Ellis in the Albert Haynesworth category. In all honesty though, there are no fair comparisons. Both have the upside as the aforementioned Pro Bowler’s. Both have the talent and value to award them with bank-breaking rookie contracts. The only difference between the two is that depending on defensive scheme, one will get drafted ahead of the other.

Don’t look for the Miami Dolphins to draft Glenn Dorsey if they put in place a 3-4 scheme. Instead, look for them to address another need or grab a defensive end. On the other hand, Dorsey would fit in well with the St. Louis Rams (to replace La’Roi Glover). Sedrick Ellis meanwhile would be a great fit for the Miami Dolphins but his stock is not quite that up that high yet. Ellis plays with a Warren Sapp-like mean streak and could fit in well with Oakland. Regardless of this speculation, both Dorsey and Ellis will be top 8 eight selections come April.

So who is the better prospect? Flip a coin -- you can’t be wrong with heads or tails. This is the perfect win-win scenario for a franchise picking early in the draft that needs to address the middle of their defensive line.

Hammock Parties · 01-22-2008, 09:24 PM

Mecca brings a whole lot more to this place than CrazyStupid...

Priest4Prez · 01-22-2008, 09:24 PM

How about we compromise and draft Connor Barth:

Connor Barth

Class:
Senior

Hometown:
Wilmington, N.C.

High School:
Hoggard

Height / Weight:
6-1 / 190

Position:
Place Kicker

• Team leader • One of the most accurate place-kickers in the country • Enters the season having connected on his last 11 field goals • Should be a top candidate for postseason honors.

2006 - Junior Season
Made all 10 field goal attempts and 24 of 26 PATs • Was the only kicker in the country with a 1.000 field goal percentage in the NCAA rankings • Made a 20-yard field goal and six extra points in Carolina's 45-44 win at Duke • Booted three field goals of 20, 54 and 37 yards against NC State • The 54-yarder was his career best and tied for the second-longest in school history • It was the fifth time he had made three field goals in a game • Snapped a streak of 43 consecutive PATs when his extra point was blocked against Notre Dame • Later in the game, had a second PAT blocked by the Irish • Made a 35-yard field goal and two extra points against Wake Forest • Booted a 52-yard field goal against USF • Also had a 29-yarder against South Florida and made both extra points • Converted a 23-yarder against Furman in the first half • Made all six extra points against the Paladins • Made his only attempt - a 46-yarder - against Virginia Tech and converted one extra point • Booted a 47-yarder against Rutgers • Made both extra points against the Scarlet Knights.

2005 - Sophomore Season
Made 11 of 21 (.524) field goal attempts • After struggling in the middle of the season, connected on eight of his last 10 • Made a 25-yarder and had one blocked at Virginia Tech • Connected on a 24-yard field goal as time expired in the first half against Duke • Made three of four attempts in the overtime loss vs. Maryland • Connected on tries from 45, 41 and 24 yards • Missed a 38-yarder in overtime • Connected on all three field goal attempts in a 16-14 victory over Boston College - 20, 22 and 44 yards • Entered the BC game with just three field goals on the season and made three against the Eagles • Missed both attempts (47, 54) against Virginia • Missed a 44-yard field goal attempt against Louisville • Missed two of three field goals against Utah, including a 24-yarder and a 49-yarder • Booted a 32-yarder on his last attempt against the Utes • Struggled against NC State, missing two field goals, but converted a 24-yarder in the fourth quarter that gave the Tar Heels a 31-24 lead • Made a 43-yard field goal against Wisconsin, but missed a 50-yarder in the second half • Made three extra points and did not attempt a field goal at Georgia Tech.

2004 - Freshman Season
Named second-team freshman All-America by Rivals.com • Named honorable-mention All-ACC • Made 14 of 18 field goal attempts and 35 of 37 extra point attempts • Booted a 27-yard field goal against Boston College in the Continental Tire Bowl • Kicked 25- and 41-yard field goals in the win at Duke • Made a 33-yard field goal in the 31-24 victory at Wake Forest • Booted a 30-yard field goal against Virginia Tech • Missed a 54-yarder on Carolina's final possession that would have tied the game • Made a 42-yard game-winning field goal as time expired to beat No. 4 Miami, 31-28 • Had missed a 39-yarder earlier in the game against the Hurricanes • Carolina set up the field goal with a nine-play, 55-yard drive to the Miami 25-yard line • Carolina ran the clock down to four seconds, then Miami called a timeout to ice Barth • Barth responded with Carolina's first-game winning field goal since Dan Orner against Duke in 2002 • Made a 29-yard field goal at Utah • Made all three field goal attempts (50, 31, 25 yards) and three extra points in Carolina's 30-24 win over NC State • The 50-yard field goal was the longest ever by a Carolina freshman • Made all three field goals against FSU - (20, 32, 37) and an extra point • Became the first Tar Heel to make three field goals in a game since Dan Orner made three at Syracuse in 2002 • Made all four extra point attempts against Georgia Tech, but missed a 47-yard field goal • Made his first career field goal on a 22-yard attempt at Virginia • Connected on all seven point after attempts in Carolina's 49-38 win • Became the first freshman kicker to kick a field goal for the Tar Heels since Josh McGee in 1996.

Hoggard High School
Named first-team high school All-America by USA Today • Played in the prestigious Army All-America Bowl • Attended the U.S. Army All-American Bowl combine and was named the event's top kicker • Selected to the inaugural EA Sports High School All-America Team • Considered one of the best kickers in the country by most recruiting services • Set the North Carolina state record for field goals in a season and career (38) • Ranked among the top 25 overall players in North Carolina by The Charlotte Observer • Connected on 20 of 21 field goals and 48 of 50 PATs for 108 points as a senior • Made a 53- and 50-yarder in 2003 • Had a string of 40 consecutive PATs in 2002 • Made 11 of 14 field goals that year, including a 50-yarder, and connected on 53 of 54 extra point attempts as a junior • Put 75 percent of his kickoffs in the end zone • Punted 42 times for a 38.2-yard average with a long punt of 50 yards • Won the field goal distance competition at Virginia Tech's Fourth Down Sports Camp with a 51-yarder following his sophomore season • Also won the Ray Guy Camp competition with a 55-yarder • Coached by Scott Braswell.

Brock · 01-22-2008, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyCoffey

but your posts are meaningless, you twit.

LOL, and coming from Mr. Postwhore himself that's saying something.

Priest4Prez · 01-22-2008, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

When was the last time you provided any sort of even remotely knowledgeable football take?

Battle Royal!!!!

Mecca · 01-22-2008, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Priest4Prez

Battle Royal!!!!

Well it's true, I've never seen him post anything insightful about the Chiefs or football or anything like that.

If you don't like my draft takes or posting of info you do it, provide some insight if you don't like mine. That's all I'm sayin if you can't...shut up.

Mecca · 01-22-2008, 09:31 PM

Right now the Chiefs value everything...have you seen this team?

Priest4Prez · 01-22-2008, 09:34 PM

a kicker is the most important part of hermball, why aren't we drafting kicker 1st round?

crazycoffey · 01-22-2008, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

When was the last time you provided any sort of even remotely knowledgeable football take?

First - why does that matter? Second- sure, I never talk about football.... whatever.

I enjoy watching football, even the pats, and I want to like them but I just don't. But that doesn't mean they're not a good football team, IMO. I also like to talk about football, hence the reason I come here. Along with BS about politics, and celebrities. My problem with you has always been the same, you are eternally pessimistic, and you pass it off as being a realist. So you either or too stupid to know the difference or too arrogant to care. Eitherway, I have the right to post what ever the fuck I want and right now I choose to say your and idiot.

crazycoffey · 01-22-2008, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock

LOL, and coming from Mr. Postwhore himself that's saying something.

see the difference is, I'm not spouting off at the mouth that I know everything and that I'm somehow making a difference by posting my opinions on the interweb....

Mecca · 01-22-2008, 09:37 PM

I'd tell you in a draft like this a DL is more valuable than an OL because the OL side is much deeper..after Dorsey and Ellis the DTs drop off huge.

crazycoffey · 01-22-2008, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by findthedr

But their is a priority list. I am sure you agree FB isnt valued the same as a Dlineman or Olineman. From all indications, upgrading the Oline is at the top of the priority list and thus valued the highest.

and rightfully so, the OL is the biggest concern on this team, even if mecca doesn't believe it.

Mecca · 01-22-2008, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyCoffey

First - why does that matter? Second- sure, I never talk about football.... whatever.

I enjoy watching football, even the pats, and I want to like them but I just don't. But that doesn't mean they're not a good football team, IMO. I also like to talk about football, hence the reason I come here. Along with BS about politics, and celebrities. My problem with you has always been the same, you are eternally pessimistic, and you pass it off as being a realist. So you either or too stupid to know the difference or too arrogant to care. Eitherway, I have the right to post what ever the fuck I want and right now I choose to say your and idiot.

You are on a football message board telling me I provide nothing when you don't even talk about football....that makes sense.

Say all you want but I bet people will have some respect for my views on the draft just due to my history with it.

Ebolapox · 01-22-2008, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by findthedr

give you credit for that. YOu could be like others and call players "elite" and stick to your views regardless to reason.

heh, pot... meet kettle.

YOU'RE BLACK!

crazycoffey · 01-22-2008, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Priest4Prez

Battle Royal!!!!

pffft, what - ever....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Well it's true, I've never seen him post anything insightful about the Chiefs or football or anything like that.

If you don't like my draft takes or posting of info you do it, provide some insight if you don't like mine. That's all I'm sayin if you can't...shut up.

Because you haven't seen it, great one, it must be true, do you actually read your posts? Besides, it's not that you share your opinion, that's fine, I'll agree to disagree if it comes to that, it's the beating a dead horse thing that gets old.

Mecca · 01-22-2008, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyCoffey

and rightfully so, the OL is the biggest concern on this team, even if mecca doesn't believe it.

Why should I take a OT 5th when I don't personally believe he is that great when I can take one of the 2 dominant DT prospects and still get a damn good OT prospect that isn't that much worse than Long with my 2nd pick..

The dropoff from Ellis to the 2nd round DT's is much greater than the dropoff from Long to those next OT's.

I'd rather get 2 players than 1......people say it starts at the lines so um isn't it better to have 2 good players than 1?

01-22-2008, 08:16 PM
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $2097050	Sizing up the DT's January 22, 2008 If you have ever watched the National Geographic Channel, you would know that the grizzly bear is a fearsome creature. When the grizzly bear stands on its hind legs, you know you are in trouble but don’t try to run because the grizzly bear is violently quick, running at an alarming 35 miles per hour. In the 2008 draft, there are two defensive tackles that resemble grizzly bears. Louisiana State’s Glenn Dorsey and Southern Cal’s Sedrick Ellis are two of the most feared DTs to come out in the same year since 1994 when Dan Wilkinson and Bryant Young both went within the first seven selections of the NFL Draft. One on One When we break down the tape, both Dorsey and Ellis are fierce linemen with more physical tools than any highly regarded defensive tackle since Tommie Harris in 2004. We won’t get a confirmed height and weight for Glenn Dorsey until the NFL Combine, but he is reportedly 6’2”, 303 lbs. At the Senior Bowl, Sedrick Ellis sized in at 6’0”, 308 lbs. LSU’s Glenn Dorsey recorded 7 sacks, 12.5 tackles for a loss, and 69 total tackles as a senior in 2007. He also forced 1 fumble, hurried the quarterback 3 times, and broke up 3 passes. Dorsey may have the ideal frame for a defensive tackle but his quickness is similar to a defensive end’s. He does well as a pass rusher and usually was double teamed in 2007. Despite playing hurt most of 2007, Dorsey managed to change the momentum of games, especially against South Carolina. Dorsey’s arm length doesn’t wow scouts but the ability to dominate in one-on-one situations and swallow any gap around him makes up for what he lacks physically. The Trojans have had a hidden gem in Sedrick Ellis for some time but he didn’t begin to garnish national attention until his senior year. In 2007, Ellis filled up his stat sheet with 8.5 sacks, 12.5 tackles for a loss and 58 total tackles. He also had 1 quarterback hurry and 7 passes broken up. Ellis isn’t as big height-wise as scouts like, but his extraterrestrial strength and speed makes him a highly regarded prospect. He is very instinctive and leads with a very quick first step. Watching Ellis is like watching a fundamental video on how to shed blocks. He possesses sound techniques and has top-notch intangibles. Like Dorsey, Ellis has had injury problems, breaking his ankle in 2003 and injuring his left knee in 2006. When it comes to disrupting the fluidity on offense for opponents, there is not one prospect in this draft that can do that like Sedrick Ellis. Natural Habitat Unlike Ellis, Glenn Dorsey would be better suited for just the 4-3 defensive scheme. As you can see, Ellis could play in both the 3-4 and 4-3. Dorsey is solid in shedding blockers but isn’t the nose tackle prospect Haloti Ngata was a couple of years’ back. Meanwhile, Sedrick Ellis is a hog at both positions, relinquishing the power that the center and guards may have on him and dominating the trenches. While you may be confused and start to wonder, how is Dorsey more highly regarded than Ellis? He simply isn’t. As you read this, there are scouts and pro personnel breaking down film trying to decipher who is better suited for what and who has shown more weakness than the other. At the end of the day, it may be a push. Dorsey has a quicker first step and may use his hands better than Ellis but Ellis is quicker to dominate a double-team than Dorsey. Both DTs have played through injuries during their time in school and both have anchored a BCS defense. Conclusion If there were any fair comparison’s to current NFL DTs, I would put Glenn Dorsey in the Kevin Williams category and place Sedrick Ellis in the Albert Haynesworth category. In all honesty though, there are no fair comparisons. Both have the upside as the aforementioned Pro Bowler’s. Both have the talent and value to award them with bank-breaking rookie contracts. The only difference between the two is that depending on defensive scheme, one will get drafted ahead of the other. Don’t look for the Miami Dolphins to draft Glenn Dorsey if they put in place a 3-4 scheme. Instead, look for them to address another need or grab a defensive end. On the other hand, Dorsey would fit in well with the St. Louis Rams (to replace La’Roi Glover). Sedrick Ellis meanwhile would be a great fit for the Miami Dolphins but his stock is not quite that up that high yet. Ellis plays with a Warren Sapp-like mean streak and could fit in well with Oakland. Regardless of this speculation, both Dorsey and Ellis will be top 8 eight selections come April. So who is the better prospect? Flip a coin -- you can’t be wrong with heads or tails. This is the perfect win-win scenario for a franchise picking early in the draft that needs to address the middle of their defensive line.
Posts: 111,275

01-22-2008, 09:24 PM	#31
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $4170478	Mecca brings a whole lot more to this place than CrazyStupid... __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 279,689

01-22-2008, 09:24 PM	#32
Priest4Prez Vote for Bush/Cheny 08 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Idaho Casino cash: $10004900	How about we compromise and draft Connor Barth: Connor Barth Class: Senior Hometown: Wilmington, N.C. High School: Hoggard Height / Weight: 6-1 / 190 Position: Place Kicker • Team leader • One of the most accurate place-kickers in the country • Enters the season having connected on his last 11 field goals • Should be a top candidate for postseason honors. 2006 - Junior Season Made all 10 field goal attempts and 24 of 26 PATs • Was the only kicker in the country with a 1.000 field goal percentage in the NCAA rankings • Made a 20-yard field goal and six extra points in Carolina's 45-44 win at Duke • Booted three field goals of 20, 54 and 37 yards against NC State • The 54-yarder was his career best and tied for the second-longest in school history • It was the fifth time he had made three field goals in a game • Snapped a streak of 43 consecutive PATs when his extra point was blocked against Notre Dame • Later in the game, had a second PAT blocked by the Irish • Made a 35-yard field goal and two extra points against Wake Forest • Booted a 52-yard field goal against USF • Also had a 29-yarder against South Florida and made both extra points • Converted a 23-yarder against Furman in the first half • Made all six extra points against the Paladins • Made his only attempt - a 46-yarder - against Virginia Tech and converted one extra point • Booted a 47-yarder against Rutgers • Made both extra points against the Scarlet Knights. 2005 - Sophomore Season Made 11 of 21 (.524) field goal attempts • After struggling in the middle of the season, connected on eight of his last 10 • Made a 25-yarder and had one blocked at Virginia Tech • Connected on a 24-yard field goal as time expired in the first half against Duke • Made three of four attempts in the overtime loss vs. Maryland • Connected on tries from 45, 41 and 24 yards • Missed a 38-yarder in overtime • Connected on all three field goal attempts in a 16-14 victory over Boston College - 20, 22 and 44 yards • Entered the BC game with just three field goals on the season and made three against the Eagles • Missed both attempts (47, 54) against Virginia • Missed a 44-yard field goal attempt against Louisville • Missed two of three field goals against Utah, including a 24-yarder and a 49-yarder • Booted a 32-yarder on his last attempt against the Utes • Struggled against NC State, missing two field goals, but converted a 24-yarder in the fourth quarter that gave the Tar Heels a 31-24 lead • Made a 43-yard field goal against Wisconsin, but missed a 50-yarder in the second half • Made three extra points and did not attempt a field goal at Georgia Tech. 2004 - Freshman Season Named second-team freshman All-America by Rivals.com • Named honorable-mention All-ACC • Made 14 of 18 field goal attempts and 35 of 37 extra point attempts • Booted a 27-yard field goal against Boston College in the Continental Tire Bowl • Kicked 25- and 41-yard field goals in the win at Duke • Made a 33-yard field goal in the 31-24 victory at Wake Forest • Booted a 30-yard field goal against Virginia Tech • Missed a 54-yarder on Carolina's final possession that would have tied the game • Made a 42-yard game-winning field goal as time expired to beat No. 4 Miami, 31-28 • Had missed a 39-yarder earlier in the game against the Hurricanes • Carolina set up the field goal with a nine-play, 55-yard drive to the Miami 25-yard line • Carolina ran the clock down to four seconds, then Miami called a timeout to ice Barth • Barth responded with Carolina's first-game winning field goal since Dan Orner against Duke in 2002 • Made a 29-yard field goal at Utah • Made all three field goal attempts (50, 31, 25 yards) and three extra points in Carolina's 30-24 win over NC State • The 50-yard field goal was the longest ever by a Carolina freshman • Made all three field goals against FSU - (20, 32, 37) and an extra point • Became the first Tar Heel to make three field goals in a game since Dan Orner made three at Syracuse in 2002 • Made all four extra point attempts against Georgia Tech, but missed a 47-yard field goal • Made his first career field goal on a 22-yard attempt at Virginia • Connected on all seven point after attempts in Carolina's 49-38 win • Became the first freshman kicker to kick a field goal for the Tar Heels since Josh McGee in 1996. Hoggard High School Named first-team high school All-America by USA Today • Played in the prestigious Army All-America Bowl • Attended the U.S. Army All-American Bowl combine and was named the event's top kicker • Selected to the inaugural EA Sports High School All-America Team • Considered one of the best kickers in the country by most recruiting services • Set the North Carolina state record for field goals in a season and career (38) • Ranked among the top 25 overall players in North Carolina by The Charlotte Observer • Connected on 20 of 21 field goals and 48 of 50 PATs for 108 points as a senior • Made a 53- and 50-yarder in 2003 • Had a string of 40 consecutive PATs in 2002 • Made 11 of 14 field goals that year, including a 50-yarder, and connected on 53 of 54 extra point attempts as a junior • Put 75 percent of his kickoffs in the end zone • Punted 42 times for a 38.2-yard average with a long punt of 50 yards • Won the field goal distance competition at Virginia Tech's Fourth Down Sports Camp with a 51-yarder following his sophomore season • Also won the Ray Guy Camp competition with a 55-yarder • Coached by Scott Braswell. __________________ If you don't believe in gosh you will go to heck-Believer
Posts: 1,522

01-22-2008, 09:31 PM	#36
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $2097050	Right now the Chiefs value everything...have you seen this team?
Posts: 111,275

01-22-2008, 09:34 PM	#37
Priest4Prez Vote for Bush/Cheny 08 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Idaho Casino cash: $10004900	a kicker is the most important part of hermball, why aren't we drafting kicker 1st round? __________________ If you don't believe in gosh you will go to heck-Believer
Posts: 1,522

01-22-2008, 09:37 PM	#40
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $2097050	I'd tell you in a draft like this a DL is more valuable than an OL because the OL side is much deeper..after Dorsey and Ellis the DTs drop off huge.
Posts: 111,275