Chiefs How patient will YOU be with Brodie Croyle? - Page 3

TRR · 07-22-2008, 02:18 PM

Nearing training camp, I'm starting to wonder how soon fellow KC fans will start throwing Croyle under the bus. Last season, Croyle struggled, but had no real help to give KC fans an honest look at what he can do. This season, the line should be a bit better, a healthy LJ should give him a legitimate playmaker in the backfield, and an entire offseason of working as the starting QB could only help...

BUT...

I remember how impatient KC fans were with Trent Green. Most were ready to kill him after the 2001 season, and still weren't happy with him after the 2002 season. Even at the end, after Green became one of the great Chiefs QB's in recent memory, fans were quick to rip him apart, and resurrect the name "TrINT".

My question is, (1) how long will you give Croyle to prove himself? Half the season? All season? And (2) what does he need to do to be brought back as the starting QB for the 2009 season?

Thoughts...

Micjones · 07-22-2008, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRR

Then Trent Green should have never been brought back for the 2002 season and beyond if it were up to you....

Trent Green had already proven he could produce in the NFL.

blueballs · 07-22-2008, 02:53 PM

KC needs a QB of the future
until 2009 there really isn't any alternative
but what's on the payroll other than HUTARD

TRR · 07-22-2008, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micjones

I never said there were only four, but carry on.

Yeah, Tony Gonzalez is indebted to Brodie Croyle.

That has happened in the National Football League before believe it or not.
And again, I can prove that other QB's with similar or greater hurdles were able to produce.

A young QB with as many obstacles as Croyle had to overcome last season...

*Coming in at game 10 (splitting time in mini camp/training camp/practice with Huard)
*Third string RB
*Terrible O Line
*No #2 WR

...won't have much to offer, and it definitely should not be the measuring stick. Please provide multiple examples of this like you say in the NFL, and I would be willing to listen.

Also keep in mind that Croyle had a couple of decent flashes, like his play at Indianapolis, and in New York late in the season where he managed the game well throwing no picks in 43 attempts.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 07-22-2008, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micjones

I never said there were only four, but carry on.

Yeah, Tony Gonzalez is indebted to Brodie Croyle.

That has happened in the National Football League before believe it or not.
And again, I can prove that other QB's with similar or greater hurdles were able to produce.

Wow, you're really going out of your way to look foolish here, Mic.

You go ahead and name the QB's that have overcome these obstacles in less than 6 starts, then I'll name TEN TIMES that amount that haven't.

Micjones · 07-22-2008, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Out of how many?

Once again, I never said there were only 4 who have shown flashes that warranted more time.

Quote:

And those were the only two offensive weapons on the team. Playing with a patchwork OL and a 3rd string RB.

However you'd like to spin that... He had two highly reliable pass-catchers.
To say he had nothing to work with is to be disingenuous.

Quote:

If you haven't seen what makes this kid special, you're not willing to see it, or you're not watching the games.

He might play one hell of a piano for all I know.
He hasn't proven he's special on the football field.
I'm sorry.

But I'm all ears if you'd care to share what makes him special.
One condition...Say nothing about his arm strength.

Don't worry... I'll wait.

Quote:

By your standards, QB's like Manning, (Peyton or Eli) Aikman, Elway, etc would have never started their 2nd season.

Not this lame argument...again!

Those were #1 overall draft picks.
The way their respective franchises handled them has ZERO bearing on what we do with Croyle.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 07-22-2008, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micjones

Trent Green had already proven he could produce in the NFL.

Produce what?

He had one good year prior to coming to KC, 1998.

Interestingly enough, in 2001, the year everyone wants to crucify him over, his completion percentage, yardage, yards per attempt and yards per game were all BETTER than in 1998.

StcChief · 07-22-2008, 03:03 PM

all year barring glaring errors and injuries. Thigpen? if not 2009 draft....

or maybe by then Brett will be done pouting and wanna play

**OnTheWarpath15** · 07-22-2008, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micjones

Once again, I never said there were only 4 who have shown flashes that warranted more time.

However you'd like to spin that... He had two highly reliable pass-catchers.
To say he had nothing to work with is to be disingenuous.

He might play one hell of a piano for all I know.
He hasn't proven he's special on the football field.
I'm sorry.

But I'm all ears if you'd care to share what makes him special.
One condition...Say nothing about his arm strength.

Don't worry... I'll wait.

Not this lame argument...again!

Those were #1 overall draft picks.
The way their respective franchises handled them has ZERO bearing on what we do with Croyle.

I don't give a shit if they were picked #1 overall, or were Mr. ****ing Irrelevant.

To say that you've seen everything you need to see out of a young QB in six starts shows your ignorance on the subject.

Hell, I can't think of ONE team who has ever given their QBOTF less than a full season to prove anything.

Since you keep skirting the issue, feel free to enlighten us on ALL the QB's who have been a Brady-like miracle from Day One. It's a tiny fraction of all the QB's who needed 2-3+ years to develop into a quality player.

Quit making it sound like Roethlisberger and Brady are the rules. They are an anomaly, a rarity.

Oh, and I'll wait...

Micjones · 07-22-2008, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRR

A young QB with as many obstacles as Croyle had to overcome last season...

*Coming in at game 10 (splitting time in mini camp/training camp/practice with Huard)
*Third string RB
*Terrible O Line
*No #2 WR

...won't have much to offer, and it definitely should not be the measuring stick. Please provide multiple examples of this like you say in the NFL, and I would be willing to listen.

Also keep in mind that Croyle had a couple of decent flashes, like his play at Indianapolis, and in New York late in the season where he managed the game well throwing no picks in 43 attempts.

Let's start with Tom Brady...
Here are his numbers after just 6 starts.
Tom Brady
10 TD's
5 INT's
1,273 Passing Yards
Game 4, 148.3 QB Rating
Game 6, 124.4 QB Rating

He was dumped 41 times in his first full year as a starter.
He had an all-world offensive line...

TRR · 07-22-2008, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micjones

Let's start with Tom Brady...
Here are his numbers after just 6 starts.
Tom Brady
10 TD's
5 INT's
1,273 Passing Yards
Game 4, 148.3 QB Rating
Game 6, 124.4 QB Rating

He was dumped 41 times in his first full year as a starter.
He had an all-world offensive line...

Tom Brady, as well as maybe a couple of more QB's are the exception. NOT THE RULE.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 07-22-2008, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micjones

Let's start with Tom Brady...
Here are his numbers after just 6 starts.
Tom Brady
10 TD's
5 INT's
1,273 Passing Yards
Game 4, 148.3 QB Rating
Game 6, 124.4 QB Rating

He was dumped 41 times in his first full year as a starter.
He had an all-world offensive line...

Yeah, let's start with the mother of all exceptions in NFL HISTORY...

IIRC, Brady had a pretty solid TEAM around him. Didn't they win the SB or something?

B_Ambuehl · 07-22-2008, 03:09 PM

I think Herm and Carl et. al already pretty much realize he can't play, but the fact that he hasn't totally proven that yet has worked to their advantage because it allowed them to address other team needs in the draft and they can afford another year of shitty QB play without getting hammered by the fans. They can wait until next year to get a QB.

kcxiv · 07-22-2008, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

By your standards, QB's like Manning, (Peyton or Eli) Aikman, Elway, etc would have never started their 2nd season.

Except they were all drafted in round 1. The rules are a little different when you get drafted that high.

Chiefnj2 · 07-22-2008, 03:10 PM

Barring a complete meltdown you give him the entire season.

If after 10 games he has a 50% completion percentage and a 1:2 Td to INT ration, then maybe you sit him down and tell him that if he doesn't improve Thigpen will get the last few starts.

**Bowser** · 07-22-2008, 03:10 PM

You kids settle down, or I'll pull this car over RIGHT HERE!

07-22-2008, 02:18 PM
TRR The Priest and I Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: CO Casino cash: $9870185	How patient will YOU be with Brodie Croyle? Nearing training camp, I'm starting to wonder how soon fellow KC fans will start throwing Croyle under the bus. Last season, Croyle struggled, but had no real help to give KC fans an honest look at what he can do. This season, the line should be a bit better, a healthy LJ should give him a legitimate playmaker in the backfield, and an entire offseason of working as the starting QB could only help... BUT... I remember how impatient KC fans were with Trent Green. Most were ready to kill him after the 2001 season, and still weren't happy with him after the 2002 season. Even at the end, after Green became one of the great Chiefs QB's in recent memory, fans were quick to rip him apart, and resurrect the name "TrINT". My question is, (1) how long will you give Croyle to prove himself? Half the season? All season? And (2) what does he need to do to be brought back as the starting QB for the 2009 season? Thoughts...
Posts: 7,262

07-22-2008, 02:53 PM	#32
blueballs Banned Join Date: Feb 2006 Casino cash: $10004900	KC needs a QB of the future until 2009 there really isn't any alternative but what's on the payroll other than HUTARD
Posts: 14,233

07-22-2008, 03:03 PM	#37
StcChief Playing for #1 Draft Pick Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Just West of Lambs land Casino cash: $10004900	all year barring glaring errors and injuries. Thigpen? if not 2009 draft.... or maybe by then Brett will be done pouting and wanna play __________________ sig test for this screwy schema
Posts: 25,901

07-22-2008, 03:09 PM	#42
B_Ambuehl Veteran Join Date: Apr 2005 Casino cash: $9805405	I think Herm and Carl et. al already pretty much realize he can't play, but the fact that he hasn't totally proven that yet has worked to their advantage because it allowed them to address other team needs in the draft and they can afford another year of shitty QB play without getting hammered by the fans. They can wait until next year to get a QB. __________________ Who's decision was it to fire Romeo" - Coleman C Hunt: "It was my decision but it was one that Scott agreed with" LOL
Posts: 2,605

07-22-2008, 03:10 PM	#44
Chiefnj2 In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Casino cash: $7813688	Barring a complete meltdown you give him the entire season. If after 10 games he has a 50% completion percentage and a 1:2 Td to INT ration, then maybe you sit him down and tell him that if he doesn't improve Thigpen will get the last few starts. __________________ Mismanaging the clock.
Posts: 22,396

07-22-2008, 03:10 PM	#45
Bowser sorta mod-ish Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: KC North Casino cash: $2971616	You kids settle down, or I'll pull this car over RIGHT HERE!
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