Chiefs Whitlock comes down on LJ hard, supports Waters - Page 3

Hammock Parties · 04-12-2009, 07:20 AM

Fat guys gotta stick together!

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chi...y/1137858.html

Chiefs need to get this right: Boot LJ, keep Waters

There’s no reason to believe Larry Johnson or his new agent.

The moody running back, in the pursuit of the remaining millions left on his contract, claims — through his agent — he wants nothing more than to be a productive runner for the Kansas City Chiefs in 2009.

He made the same claims before the start of the 2007 season, when he was trying to secure a lucrative contract extension. Carl Peterson fell for Johnson’s kind words and made Johnson the highest-paid Chief.

Scott Pioli should go ahead and release Johnson now. If somehow Kansas City’s new general manager is able to trade Johnson for anything — chinstrap, mouthpiece, blocking dummy, a jockstrap to be named later — Pioli would have to be an early candidate for NFL executive of the year.

Johnson has no trade value. He refuses to block. He’s an unreliable runner. He has a bad attitude. His best years are long gone. A team would be foolish to trade for Johnson.

Why not just wait for the Chiefs to release Johnson?

If the Chiefs hold on to Johnson and he makes their season-opening roster, which would re-guarantee his contract, then we’ll have our second legitimate reason to question the decision-making of the Chiefs’ new leadership.

For those of you with short memories, our first legitimate reason was Pioli and Todd Haley’s handling of their first meeting with Pro Bowl guard Brian Waters.

This is one of the most underplayed stories of the NFL offseason. Waters is Kansas City’s version of Jay Cutler. After brief and abrasive encounters with Pioli and Haley, Waters demanded his release from the Chiefs.

Obviously, Waters isn’t as high-profile as a Pro Bowl quarterback, so the national media have ignored his dissatisfaction.

But Waters’ troubles hint at a bigger trend: The arrogance of the young lieutenants coming off the Bill Belichick tree and whether they’ve made mistakes that damaged their new franchises.

Denver coach Josh McDaniels, the 32-year-old former Patriots offensive coordinator, cost the Broncos an in-his-prime franchise quarterback by foolishly attempting to trade for Matt Cassel.

Pioli, Belichick’s former right hand, may cost Kansas City its best lineman by foolishly implementing his my-way-or-the-highway approach to diplomacy. Pioli and Haley needlessly played rough with a valuable asset.

Of course, the whole thing could blow over during the offseason and Waters could return to his role as locker-room leader by training camp. But right now, we don’t know where the standoff stands. Waters represents himself and isn’t talking. Pioli and Haley don’t like to talk about sensitive issues.

We’re left to speculate.

Maybe the Chiefs could package Waters and Johnson in a draft-day trade, if there’s a player on the board in the second or third round that the club really likes.

It’s difficult for me to envision a scenario that would have Johnson on the Chiefs’ 2009 roster. It’s equally difficult for me to see Pioli taking the necessary, pride-swallowing steps to fix the team’s issue with Waters.

Brian Waters can be reasoned with. He’s a student of the game.

Don’t read anything into what I’m about to say. I have not talked with Brian Waters or anyone close to him recently. I’m basing my opinion on what I’ve learned about Brian over his nine years on the Chiefs.

He can be easily persuaded to get on board with what Pioli and Haley are trying to accomplish. Waters simply needs to be recruited and given the level of respect his consistent play and off-field professionalism demand.

Does Mike Vrabel’s success in New England dictate he gets more respect in Kansas City than Brian Waters? Not in my opinion.

According to Cassel’s statement to the media shortly after being traded to KC, Pioli had an open-door policy with players in New England. You got the impression Pioli liked to chat up key personnel and get them on board with the club’s philosophy.

His handling of Waters created the impression of a young person on an immature power trip. General managers don’t win football games. Good football players and coaches do. You do whatever is necessary to retain the good ones, and you dump the Larry Johnsons of the world the first chance you get.

**jAZ** · 04-12-2009, 01:03 PM

Why did Waters demand the special treatment of an in-person meeting with the two newly hired guys who if they take the meeting, they then have to worry about having to hold simlar adhoc, in-person meetings with 80 different people?

What was so critical that Waters needed to do his own thing like that?

Sweet Daddy Hate · 04-12-2009, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claythan

I think we've all made mistakes when under the influence.

At least Larry isn't pissing on anyone.

Hammock Parties · 04-12-2009, 01:09 PM

Larry hasn't beaten a woman since college.

Seriously, if roles were reversed, and LJ had skipped the workouts, he would be crucified.

Double standard.

LaChapelle · 04-12-2009, 01:22 PM

Pioli would probably rather deal with Vrabel as the Chiefs' NFLP rep than Waters. The Waters dust up could all be about a power struggle(the timing would need checked).

kcxiv · 04-12-2009, 01:25 PM

Whoever can help us win, then let them play. That other shit is none of my business. I just want the team to win. I wont ever know any of these players personally, so all that other shit means nothing to me.

RufusRJones · 04-12-2009, 01:32 PM

Whitlock obviously have never lead a group of individuals in any sort of goal - a business, a club and team. When you inherit a business that's failing, you don't bend over and kiss the arses of everyone there and tell them how much you love them...sorry but that respect is earned. Pioli and Haley wouldn't be there if other people had done their jobs.

The first thing a good leader does in these situations is assess what's going on...then set some expectations. I think both were done. The "22 guys off the street" comment and the refusal to take an adhoc meeting were clear signs. It wasn't just to Waters, it would have been to any of the current players. Waters shouldn't take it personally, and Whitlock is too stupid to understand that players on a 2-14 team don't deserve respect...they should be busting their arses to make sure they have a job.

B_Ambuehl · 04-12-2009, 02:10 PM

The problem is that's the same thing other young Belichik coatdraggers have tried to do and as a general rule they've failed. I imagine Pioli will eventually pass the blame onto Haley but this John Wayne bullshit usually doesn't fly unless you're a guy who's earned the respect. Mangina went into NY with that attitude and quickly got run out of town. McDaniels hasn't even coached a game in Denver and is already pretty much a dead man walking. Haley already has a history of not being respected by 2 different teams, do the math.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 04-12-2009, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B_Ambuehl

The problem is that's the same thing other young Belichik coatdraggers have tried to do and as a general rule they've failed. I imagine Pioli will eventually pass the blame onto Haley but this John Wayne bullshit usually doesn't fly unless you're a guy who's earned the respect. Mangina went into NY with that attitude and quickly got run out of town. McDaniels hasn't even coached a game in Denver and is already pretty much a dead man walking. Haley already has a history of not being respected by 2 different teams, do the math.

True.

Hammock Parties · 04-12-2009, 02:13 PM

Mangina had a shitty coaching background. He's a fraud.

McDaniels ****ed up a FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.

A coach and a GM, the former with a WEALTH of coaching experience and the latter with rings out the ass, pissing off a 32-year old guard, isn't remotely the same.

Halfcan · 04-12-2009, 02:13 PM

nothing to read hear

Hammock Parties · 04-12-2009, 02:14 PM

So I'm like, more popular with Chiefs fans than Whitlock now.

Bustin' makes me feel good!

Sweet Daddy Hate · 04-12-2009, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claythan

Mangina had a shitty coaching background. He's a fraud.

McDaniels ****ed up a FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.

A coach and a GM, the former with a WEALTH of coaching experience and the latter with rings out the ass, pissing off a 32-year old guard, isn't remotely the same.

True.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 04-12-2009, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claythan

So I'm like, more popular with Chiefs fans than Whitlock now.

Bustin' makes me feel good!

True.

Mecca · 04-12-2009, 02:19 PM

Whitlock takes up for his good buddy Waters, man I'm stunned.

They can both go in my opinion.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 04-12-2009, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Whitlock takes up for his good buddy Waters, man I'm stunned.

They can both go in my opinion.

But...but WHO will pay Gates light bill???

04-12-2009, 07:20 AM
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $4300478	Whitlock comes down on LJ hard, supports Waters Fat guys gotta stick together! http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chi...y/1137858.html Chiefs need to get this right: Boot LJ, keep Waters There’s no reason to believe Larry Johnson or his new agent. The moody running back, in the pursuit of the remaining millions left on his contract, claims — through his agent — he wants nothing more than to be a productive runner for the Kansas City Chiefs in 2009. He made the same claims before the start of the 2007 season, when he was trying to secure a lucrative contract extension. Carl Peterson fell for Johnson’s kind words and made Johnson the highest-paid Chief. Scott Pioli should go ahead and release Johnson now. If somehow Kansas City’s new general manager is able to trade Johnson for anything — chinstrap, mouthpiece, blocking dummy, a jockstrap to be named later — Pioli would have to be an early candidate for NFL executive of the year. Johnson has no trade value. He refuses to block. He’s an unreliable runner. He has a bad attitude. His best years are long gone. A team would be foolish to trade for Johnson. Why not just wait for the Chiefs to release Johnson? If the Chiefs hold on to Johnson and he makes their season-opening roster, which would re-guarantee his contract, then we’ll have our second legitimate reason to question the decision-making of the Chiefs’ new leadership. For those of you with short memories, our first legitimate reason was Pioli and Todd Haley’s handling of their first meeting with Pro Bowl guard Brian Waters. This is one of the most underplayed stories of the NFL offseason. Waters is Kansas City’s version of Jay Cutler. After brief and abrasive encounters with Pioli and Haley, Waters demanded his release from the Chiefs. Obviously, Waters isn’t as high-profile as a Pro Bowl quarterback, so the national media have ignored his dissatisfaction. But Waters’ troubles hint at a bigger trend: The arrogance of the young lieutenants coming off the Bill Belichick tree and whether they’ve made mistakes that damaged their new franchises. Denver coach Josh McDaniels, the 32-year-old former Patriots offensive coordinator, cost the Broncos an in-his-prime franchise quarterback by foolishly attempting to trade for Matt Cassel. Pioli, Belichick’s former right hand, may cost Kansas City its best lineman by foolishly implementing his my-way-or-the-highway approach to diplomacy. Pioli and Haley needlessly played rough with a valuable asset. Of course, the whole thing could blow over during the offseason and Waters could return to his role as locker-room leader by training camp. But right now, we don’t know where the standoff stands. Waters represents himself and isn’t talking. Pioli and Haley don’t like to talk about sensitive issues. We’re left to speculate. Maybe the Chiefs could package Waters and Johnson in a draft-day trade, if there’s a player on the board in the second or third round that the club really likes. It’s difficult for me to envision a scenario that would have Johnson on the Chiefs’ 2009 roster. It’s equally difficult for me to see Pioli taking the necessary, pride-swallowing steps to fix the team’s issue with Waters. Brian Waters can be reasoned with. He’s a student of the game. Don’t read anything into what I’m about to say. I have not talked with Brian Waters or anyone close to him recently. I’m basing my opinion on what I’ve learned about Brian over his nine years on the Chiefs. He can be easily persuaded to get on board with what Pioli and Haley are trying to accomplish. Waters simply needs to be recruited and given the level of respect his consistent play and off-field professionalism demand. Does Mike Vrabel’s success in New England dictate he gets more respect in Kansas City than Brian Waters? Not in my opinion. According to Cassel’s statement to the media shortly after being traded to KC, Pioli had an open-door policy with players in New England. You got the impression Pioli liked to chat up key personnel and get them on board with the club’s philosophy. His handling of Waters created the impression of a young person on an immature power trip. General managers don’t win football games. Good football players and coaches do. You do whatever is necessary to retain the good ones, and you dump the Larry Johnsons of the world the first chance you get.
Posts: 279,150

04-12-2009, 01:03 PM	#31
jAZ Supporter Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Tucson, AZ Casino cash: $9847493	Why did Waters demand the special treatment of an in-person meeting with the two newly hired guys who if they take the meeting, they then have to worry about having to hold simlar adhoc, in-person meetings with 80 different people? What was so critical that Waters needed to do his own thing like that?
Posts: 24,799

04-12-2009, 01:09 PM	#33
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $4300478	Larry hasn't beaten a woman since college. Seriously, if roles were reversed, and LJ had skipped the workouts, he would be crucified. Double standard. __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 279,150

04-12-2009, 01:22 PM	#34
LaChapelle Banned Join Date: Mar 2009 Casino cash: $10004900	Pioli would probably rather deal with Vrabel as the Chiefs' NFLP rep than Waters. The Waters dust up could all be about a power struggle(the timing would need checked).
Posts: 8,588

04-12-2009, 01:25 PM	#35
kcxiv In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Central Valley, Cali Casino cash: $8807996	Whoever can help us win, then let them play. That other shit is none of my business. I just want the team to win. I wont ever know any of these players personally, so all that other shit means nothing to me.
Posts: 29,110

04-12-2009, 01:32 PM	#36
RufusRJones Starter Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: All Star Wrestling Ring Casino cash: $10004900	Whitlock obviously have never lead a group of individuals in any sort of goal - a business, a club and team. When you inherit a business that's failing, you don't bend over and kiss the arses of everyone there and tell them how much you love them...sorry but that respect is earned. Pioli and Haley wouldn't be there if other people had done their jobs. The first thing a good leader does in these situations is assess what's going on...then set some expectations. I think both were done. The "22 guys off the street" comment and the refusal to take an adhoc meeting were clear signs. It wasn't just to Waters, it would have been to any of the current players. Waters shouldn't take it personally, and Whitlock is too stupid to understand that players on a 2-14 team don't deserve respect...they should be busting their arses to make sure they have a job.
Posts: 57

04-12-2009, 02:10 PM	#37
B_Ambuehl Veteran Join Date: Apr 2005 Casino cash: $9805405	The problem is that's the same thing other young Belichik coatdraggers have tried to do and as a general rule they've failed. I imagine Pioli will eventually pass the blame onto Haley but this John Wayne bullshit usually doesn't fly unless you're a guy who's earned the respect. Mangina went into NY with that attitude and quickly got run out of town. McDaniels hasn't even coached a game in Denver and is already pretty much a dead man walking. Haley already has a history of not being respected by 2 different teams, do the math.
Posts: 2,605

04-12-2009, 02:13 PM	#39
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $4300478	Mangina had a shitty coaching background. He's a fraud. McDaniels ****ed up a FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK. A coach and a GM, the former with a WEALTH of coaching experience and the latter with rings out the ass, pissing off a 32-year old guard, isn't remotely the same. __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 279,150

04-12-2009, 02:13 PM	#40
Halfcan In Search of a Life Join Date: Aug 2005 Casino cash: $7327995	nothing to read hear
Posts: 43,200

04-12-2009, 02:14 PM	#41
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $4300478	So I'm like, more popular with Chiefs fans than Whitlock now. Bustin' makes me feel good! __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 279,150

04-12-2009, 02:19 PM	#44
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $2207050	Whitlock takes up for his good buddy Waters, man I'm stunned. They can both go in my opinion.
Posts: 111,215