The myth of Pioli

[B_Ambuehl]

LOL I wonder if he's sharing that loaded contract he got from Clark with Bellichik.

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/c...148&position=0

This time it’s personnel
Building to collapse
By Ron Borges
Monday, December 7, 2009 - Updated 4m ago
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MIAMI - Slowly but inexorably they are dissolving in front of our eyes. It is a process that didn’t begin this year for the New England Patriots [team stats] but way back in 2004, when nobody was paying attention to much else but the lifting of another Super Bowl banner.

That season they won their third Super Bowl in four seasons but also began a widely ignored decline that manifested itself emphatically the past month and came to a sad head yesterday at Land Shark Stadium when they lost for the third time in four weeks, blowing a 14-0 lead to be beaten at the buzzer by the Miami Dolphins [team stats], 22-21.

Five years ago, the Patriots draft garnered two starters, both on the first round. Not another player drafted in April of 2004 is still in uniform. That fallowness continued in 2005 when they again picked only two current starters. In 2006, they got only one, running back Laurence Maroney [stats], plus kicker Stephen Gostkowski. Then came the disaster of 2007, when only first-round pick Brandon Meriweather was good enough to still be in pro
football.

It is a bit early to know about 2008 but other than linebacker Jerod Mayo it again appears to be a sad lot. Second- and third-round picks Terrence Wheatley and Shawn Crable seldom see the field (Crable never has) and it is becoming increasingly more disastrous that cornerback Jonathan Wilhite sees so much of it. In those five years, the Patriots drafted 41 players and got eight starters, six on the first round. Otherwise they got what Bill Belichick kept saying was “value.” Yesterday, it didn’t look that way.

Free agency has produced similarly skimpy results. Early hits were made on Rodney Harrison [stats] and Mike Vrabel, but after that the cupboard has been bare. They paid $30 million to Adalius Thomas and promised he could cover Ocho Cinco and sack Peyton Manning. He’s done neither. Shawn Springs signed a three-year, $10.5 million deal last spring and hasn’t played a snap in a month, while poor Wilhite struggles out of position because he’s a nickel back asked to play corner and rookie Darius Butler goes out and proves that while he has potential he never saw receivers at UConn like the ones catching balls behind and in front of him now, as Greg Camarillo did on fourth-and-6 on the game’s most critical play yesterday.

While there were fruitful trades for Randy Moss and Wes Welker, they have netted big numbers but no championships, which is the same amount Moss’ teams have won since he first came into the NFL.

These facts led New Orleans Saints coach Sean Payton to tell his team before last Monday night’s game to be stout hearted and unafraid because “this isn’t the team that accomplished all that stuff.” Although his language was more colorful, his point was clear. These Patriots aren’t those Patriots.

“It’s not for lack of effort,” center Dan Koppen said not long after Dolphins kicker Dan Carpenter nailed a 41-yard field goal and Tom Brady [stats] responded by throwing his second interception of the day with :35 to play as Cameron Wake hammered him.

Koppen is right. The Patriots’ problems are not from lack of effort or lack of planning. They are from lack of talent. Not so lacking that they aren’t competitive, but lacking enough that most every game is a struggle now.

Today everyone will say, “They need a better pass rush.” From whom?

They will say, “They need better pass coverage.” From whom?

Some will say they need to run the ball more to take pressure off Brady and his ailing ring finger, sore shoulder and aching ribs. By whom?

Years ago, Chuck Fairbanks said it best. “It’s not about X’s and O’s. It’s about Jimmys and Joes.” For half a decade with the Pats people believed otherwise. In Bill We Trust became the motto, but does anyone honestly believe Bill Belichick forgot how to coach? A guy who has been watching game film since he was 6 now can’t break down film and discover a team’s weaknesses?

That’s not the problem. The problem is he can’t ask people to do what they are not capable of doing. Or, worse, he does and you end up with Sam Aiken, a guy brought here to replace Larry Izzo [stats] on special teams, as your third receiver making one great catch for a touchdown and dropping two key ones. Did he have a great game or a disastrous one? Probably both, which is A) not his fault because he’s playing a role he was never supposed to, and B) not something Belichick can change.

“We’ve got to find a way to play better football for 60 minutes in all phases,” Brady said. “Everyone has to focus on what they need to do better. I think that’s the most important thing. And be mentally tough to overcome adversity and if things don’t go your way, you’ve got to fight back. That’s a challenge for all of us. At times I think we do, and other times, I don’t think we fight very hard.”

The latter is a damning statement, but it’s also part of what separates the 2001 Pats from today’s. Remaining undaunted is a skill too and not everyone has it.

“We have leads in the second half, and leads in the fourth quarter,” Brady continued. “We’re just not closing the game out when we have the opportunity to. We’re searching for the answers, too.

“Coach always says, ‘You get what you deserve.’ In too many ways, you don’t deserve to win when you make as many mistakes as we do.”

That’s true whether you make them on the field or in the front office.

[beach tribe]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Scott Pioli has been a GM for one offseason and 12 games. That's his experience in this position.

And yet you've already declared him a failure because he didn't fix this roster in an off season.. Yeah, we're the morons.

We should have traded away our first for Vernon Gholston.
SOMETHING MUST BE DONE!!!!

[beach tribe]

I can't wait till Pioli builds a winner here.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

It's amazing that none of you dumb mother****ers, in spending voluminous time defending him, still don't realize that VP of Pro Personnel isn't the ****ing GM of the team.

Scott Pioli has been a GM for one offseason and 12 games. That's his experience in this position.

Lol. I was thinking the same thing. Only not so rude. Pioli was NOT the GM for the Pats.

Regardless, I know this season has been a disaster, but im not ready to throw in the Towel on Pioli and Haley. I think they both have what it takes.

I admire Haley for sticking to his philosophy, and I think Pioli will get this team headed in the right direction.

Cassel, im starting to loose faith in though.

[Mojo Jojo]

Originally Posted by beach tribe

BB won 3 SBs with the rosters that they built.

BB shut down the Colts, Rams, and other high flying attacks, and coached the most dangerous offense in the history of football.
Pioli was the GM,and BB the coach when players such as Ty Law, Asante Samuel were acquired, along with Richard Seymore, and .. screw it, you know the names.

So far this season, the genius BB, has shown that his team is going to lose more games with Tom Terrific, at QB than it did with a Matt Cassel.

He's also shown that it's not his genius that won all those games. It was a special group of players who he, and Pioli, hand picked. If he was such a genius. He wouldn't be losing games, by constantly going for it on 4th, and he sure as hell wouldn't be getting his ass handed to him by Sean Payton.
Not to mention the fact that Tom Coughlin out coached him in one SB, and Mike Martz handed him another by not running the ball.
As far as all of you guys already giving up on a regime after one draft, and 12 games with one of the worst rosters in the league. I just have to laugh.
Is it very possible that they Fail? Ugh.... yeah, but they haven't failed yet morons. We won 2 games last year. We will probably win 4 this year. It's a start, and it as much as anyone could ask for considering the circumstances.
Nancies.

You have one big fact wrong. Pioli was NEVER the GM in New England. His highest title was VP of Player Personnel. He was Bill Kuharich. Pioli has never dealt with all the issues a GM has to deal with. The job requires a lot more than player evaluation, and until now that is all he has done. The Chiefs have a GM and a HC that are both learning on the job.

[FAX]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

FAX, you know that's a false choice.

No one was expecting this team to be the '85 Bears. I wasn't expecting them to be the '85 Chiefs 6-10.

With that said, when his two biggest acquisitions look like botched abortions, how does that inspire any confidence.

We aren't looking for dominance, we're looking for signs of life near the bottom of the Marianas Trench.

That's deep.

Look, I understand the concern. As I mentioned, we have every right to be pissed. It appears that Pioli may well have made a mistake with the Cassel move. And, who knows what going to happen with Haley? He may start eating the wallpaper at any moment.

Still, it's way too early to call Pioli out on this. He'll make some good decisions and some bad ones along the way. There will be plenty of time to determine if he brought the skills with him. Right now, however, unless you're the reincarnation of Edgar KC, it's far too early to tell.

FAX

[Brock]

Originally Posted by beach tribe

I can't wait till Pioli builds a winner here.

That's obviously how most people feel, only with the exact opposite sentiment you're using those words in conjunction with. I'm giving him a long leash myself, because I don't believe he would have taken the job unless he thought he could build a winner here. The biggest mark against him at this point, IMO, is it looks like he may have made a big mistake with his first coaching hire.

[DaWolf]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

It's amazing that none of you dumb mother****ers, in spending voluminous time defending him, still don't realize that VP of Pro Personnel isn't the ****ing GM of the team.

Scott Pioli has been a GM for one offseason and 12 games. That's his experience in this position.

His role in New England was to identify talent that would fit BB's coaching style and the organization's philosophy, and bring that talent in.

To me, he can continue to do that here but as a GM, his real issue will be whether or not he can build an organization. That starts with the scouting/pro personnel department, and the coaches he hires. It's like how I evaluate any head coach: if you surround yourself with good people, you have a shot at being successful. If not, then good luck to you. I look at our coaching staff, and I look at the Lions coaching staff, and I can pretty much tell that neither Haley nor Schwartz were going to have great turnarounds this year. Same goes for Pioli, he will only be as good as the personnel department he puts together and the head coach he hires. If he fails in those aspects, he fails as a GM...

[keg in kc]

The myth we should be talking about is the apparent fan expectation of a one-year turnaround from a franchise that's been in bad shape for over a decade. One offseason and people are throwing themselves off buildings, and trying to take the GM, coach and anybody else they can reach with them.

Maybe they'll fail. Maybe they won't. It's too soon to tell either way.

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy

I'll give him more than a year on the job before I'm ready to shoot him out back.

Completely agree with this.

However, I'm more than prepared to see some evidence that he knows what the **** he's doing in KC, beyond our ****ing kicker.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

The myth we should be talking about is the apparent fan expectation of a one-year turnaround from a franchise that's been in bad shape for over a decade.

Hamas already addressed this.

The only thing people really wanted to see this year was PROGRESS.

And yet here we sit with just about the worst goddamn offense AND defense in the league again.

And you can argue this team is GETTING WORSE!!! We sure weren't losing 87-27 in back to back weeks during September and October.

[beach tribe]

Originally Posted by Mojo Jojo

You have one big fact wrong. Pioli was NEVER the GM in New England. His highest title was VP of Player Personnel. He was Bill Kuharich. Pioli has never dealt with all the issues a GM has to deal with. The job requires a lot more than player evaluation, and until now that is all he has done. The Chiefs have a GM and a HC that are both learning on the job.

I knew that, I just hadn't thought about it in a long time.

I made a mistake.

My opinion remains unchanged. I agree also that Haley is the man for the job, but that Cassel may be shell shocked, and it's 50-50 whether he recovers or not. I hope so, but I would like another QB brought in to push him, or take his job.
Everybody around here sucks A.J. Smith form S.D.'s balls, but he let Michael turner, and Drew Brees walk, and it probably cost them a SB or three. People make mistakes. Nobody's perfect. There is a lot of luck involved.

[beach tribe]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

The myth we should be talking about is the apparent fan expectation of a one-year turnaround from a franchise that's been in bad shape for over a decade. One offseason and people are throwing themselves off buildings, and trying to take the GM, coach and anybody else they can reach with them.

Maybe they'll fail. Maybe they won't. It's too soon to tell either way.

I really can't understand how anyone can see it any other way. It baffles me.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by beach tribe

I agree also that Haley is the man for the job,

Based on what? The Jenny Craig franchise he installed at Arrowhead?

[B_Ambuehl]

It's not about giving him time, we don't have any choice, it's about seeing positive steps in the right direction. Thus far, EVERY move Pioli's made appears to be negative. Virtually EVERY player hes acquired or drafted has sucked. Players hes let go have gone to other teams and succeeded.

I think we'd have seen more positives by now if he knew what he was doing.

Trading for Cassell looks like a mistake - Giving Cassell an unnecessary 60 million was an outright abortion.

The NFL is full of "suits" who know nothing about playing or coaching football who take credit for players, coaches, and scouts success. As of now I have to put Pioli smack dab in the middle of that group, which shouldn't really be surprising considering how his reputation came about largely thru the media.

The biggest problem with this football team is Clark. Not only does he not want to spend money, but his lack of football knowledge leads him into getting suckered by the suits, which is pretty common with really bad football teams.

[DaWolf]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

The myth we should be talking about is the apparent fan expectation of a one-year turnaround from a franchise that's been in bad shape for over a decade. One offseason and people are throwing themselves off buildings, and trying to take the GM, coach and anybody else they can reach with them.

Maybe they'll fail. Maybe they won't. It's too soon to tell either way.

Yeah, if the Pats demise is five years in the making, you're seeing the results of over 10 years of failure by Carl Peterson here.

Brodie Croyle, Tamba Hali, Dustin Colquitt, Derrick Johnson, Jarrad Page, and Dwayne Bowe are I believe the only guys left on this team drafted prior to '08. That's hardly a solid, veteran core group of players that you inherit that you can build around, and NONE of them play at the critical LOS positions (OL, DL) that good teams are built on...