Chiefs Offense/Defense (Philosophy based) - Page 3

Sorter · 11-13-2012, 10:45 PM

We've done several "If you were the GM/HC etc." threads here. However, I'm curious to see what kind of base offensive or defensive philosophies you would choose to try and design the Chiefs with. I know a majority will and should chose to utilize a 1-ga principle defensively but am curious as to the other aspects.

Personally, I would hire coaches to install a 1-gap Phillips based 3-4. While I love the fire-zone philosophies, I think that they require even more athletic players than we have currently to run at an elite level constantly and would prefer man-coverage rather than zone on downs/scenarios that dictate a pass. In the future, I would love to be able to incorporate these concepts once personnel has been adjusted accordingly.

Offensively, it would depend on the QB we draft. If Barkley, I'm hiring an OC who is based in the WCO and a HC that understands (generally) those philosophies, even if it is a defensive minded coach. Additionally, I would want him to emphasize YAC and back shoulder throws consistently.

If Smith or Wilson, I would likely hire someone who continues with a zone-based blocking system (as I feel it fits our smaller, athletic OL better and our backs in Charles/Cyrus better in a 1-cut philosophy). The OC would also utilize PA consistently (via bootlegs off of our stretch play) and would encourage a deeper approach in terms of route concepts, specifically attacking the seams off of motion with our WRs/TEs and and the corners of the field (corners/deep outs, back shoulder throws).

I'm curious to see what you all would like to have as there are several talented minds here, IMO.

Sorter · 11-14-2012, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scott free

Honest question...

How in the blue hell did a girl your age ever become so football intelligent?

Its been bugging the shit out of me for days, i've never seen a girl with such informed takes.

You need to apply for a pr job with some college or pro team.

WTF. Why just PR? You're a sexist asshole. You don't think personnel would be a good fit?

This kind of close-minded thinking is exactly why the Chiefs suck.

**Easy 6** · 11-14-2012, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sorter

WTF. Why just PR? You're a sexist asshole. You don't think personnel would be a good fit?

This kind of close-minded thinking is exactly why the Chiefs suck.

I Honestly Swear on my Grandfather, that exact thought hit my mind about 1 minute after that post.

My bad, you go!

**petegz28** · 11-14-2012, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dayze

I truly hate the 3-4.

I personally like the 3-4 when it is more attacking. I don't like the version of the 3-4 we run.

Mr. Laz · 11-14-2012, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dayze

I truly hate the 3-4.

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

I personally like the 3-4 when it is more attacking. I don't like the version of the 3-4 we run.

If we would just run a hybrid 3-4 system i think we would be fine.

1-gap/2-gap

Right now the offense knows exactly what our Dline is going to do. If we were to switch it up and run 1-gap some too, opposing offense would have to play more honestly in their blocking assignments.

It would also help with motivation along the Dline imo. It's got to be boring as shit to 'engage' the Oline but not be allow to attack. Being a human punching bag has to suck.

Sorter · 11-14-2012, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dayze

I truly hate the 3-4.

Care to elaborate? I value your opinion honestly. Do you truly hate it, or would prefer to see a 4-3 that utilizes a sub package consisting of 4 true DEs like the NYGs?

From a personal viewpoint, I think that while the 3-4 (1-gap or fire-zone based) requires moredifficult players to obtain that are effective but the payoff is greater. There are far more athletic LBs who can play in a 4-3, as well as pure-pass rushing DE's (240-270lbs that only focus on rushing the passer as opposed to 270-310 DEs who can rush the passer, play the run well and could occasionally drop depending on the blitz designed).

Just one person's opinion. I think the 4-3 is fantastic but doesn't provide as much variability. To me, it is more of a "we'll line up, show what we've got and try to ****ing beat us" front, typically. You can utilize some zone-blitz concepts effectively as the Eagles used to do, but to me it seems more difficult to incorporate effectively.

chiefzilla1501 · 11-14-2012, 09:35 PM

I know I'm going to get destroyed for this, but I want to run an old-school Whisenhunt offense. It's basically run-heavy, dink and dunk, but take a lot of shots downfield. I think it's a great system to develop a young pocket QB. In 2-3 years, I then want to open that offense up. Lots of young guys developed in this kind of system. Matt Ryan, Flacco, Big Ben, Brady, Eli... they didn't begin as pass-first offenses. Then open up the offense in 2-3 years when the QB is settled.

On defense, it has to be a 1-gap. I'd love to extend Dorsey a year and see if he can adapt. I'd cut Tyson Jackson as he's not 1-gap material. I still like Gus Bradley/Pete Carroll's "under" scheme in Seattle and think it would be a pretty easy transition. Also really like Horton's 3-4 in Arizona. And anybody who thinks Poe should move away from NT is crazy. Poe's value is that he could one day be a nose tackle you never have to take off the field. That's a great player to have in a world where your NTs are 2-down guys who get destroyed when offenses go no-huddle.

**petegz28** · 11-14-2012, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I know I'm going to get destroyed for this, but I want to run an old-school Whisenhunt offense. It's basically run-heavy, dink and dunk, but take a lot of shots downfield. I think it's a great system to develop a young pocket QB. In 2-3 years, I then want to open that offense up. Lots of young guys developed in this kind of system. Matt Ryan, Flacco, Big Ben, Brady, Eli... they didn't begin as pass-first offenses. Then open up the offense in 2-3 years when the QB is settled.

On defense, it has to be a 1-gap. I'd love to extend Dorsey a year and see if he can adapt. I'd cut Tyson Jackson as he's not 1-gap material. I still like Gus Bradley/Pete Carroll's "under" scheme in Seattle and think it would be a pretty easy transition. Also really like Horton's 3-4 in Arizona. And anybody who thinks Poe should move away from NT is crazy. Poe's value is that he could one day be a nose tackle you never have to take off the field. That's a great player to have in a world where your NTs are 2-down guys who get destroyed when offenses go no-huddle.

Dorsey ain't going to cut it in a 3-4.

**petegz28** · 11-14-2012, 09:40 PM

Our offensive and defensive philosophies should be one in the same when you get down to it:

strike first
strike hard
strike last

It's that simple. Attack, attack, attack.

Sorter · 11-14-2012, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I'd love to extend Dorsey a year and see if he can adapt.

Dorsey as displayed throughout his career that he can't provide a pass rush on sub packages in the 3-tech or in a shaded 1. He has played both at different times throughout his tenure here. I don't think he needs to stay.

chiefzilla1501 · 11-14-2012, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

Dorsey ain't going to cut it in a 3-4.

He hasn't been trained to be a pass rusher. He needs to be coached up big time on technique. But the reason he was highly regarded in college was his explosion off the line of scrimmage. Let's get him back to what he's good at. I don't think he'll be a star, but he could be a solid enough starter. Jackson's the guy I'm convinced is a pure 2-gap player.

Sorter · 11-14-2012, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

He hasn't been trained to be a pass rusher. He needs to be coached up big time on technique. But the reason he was highly regarded in college was his explosion off the line of scrimmage. Let's get him back to what he's good at. I don't think he'll be a star, but he could be a solid enough starter. Jackson's the guy I'm convinced is a pure 2-gap player.

Dorsey played quite a few snaps in our sub package, which has 2 DL playing a shaded 1 and a 3-tech. In a Phillips 1-gap, 1 DE typically plays the 5 or 4 tech, with a shaded NT and a DE playing the 3-tech.

Dorsey has gotten several snaps playing a relevant technique and didn't ever display on a consistent basis that he can penetrate and provide an interior pass rush.

**petegz28** · 11-14-2012, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

He hasn't been trained to be a pass rusher. He needs to be coached up big time on technique. But the reason he was highly regarded in college was his explosion off the line of scrimmage. Let's get him back to what he's good at. I don't think he'll be a star, but he could be a solid enough starter. Jackson's the guy I'm convinced is a pure 2-gap player.

Dorsey is not a 3-4 DE, I don't care how much coaching you give him. It's not his game. Joe Phillips was the last 3-4 RDE we had prior to Dorsey, IIRC. He was 6-5, 317. Glen Dorsey is 6-1, 297.

Sorter · 11-14-2012, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

Dorsey is not a 3-4 DE, I don't care how much coaching you give him. It's not his game. Joe Phillips was the last 3-4 RDE we had prior to Dorsey, IIRC. He was 6-5, 317. Glen Dorsey is 6-1, 297.

Dorsey's size isn't the problem IMO. Watt is 6'5 295 and Justin SMith is 6'4, 285.

Dorsey just isn't a good pass rusher, period.

**petegz28** · 11-14-2012, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sorter

Dorsey's size isn't the problem IMO. Watt is 6'5 295 and Justin SMith is 6'4, 285.

Dorsey just isn't a good pass rusher, period.

Both have 3-4 inches over Dorsey. Both are natural pass rushers. Dorsey is a 4-3 guy pure and simple.

**petegz28** · 11-14-2012, 09:59 PM

Ok, not saying he is anything as good but it really reinforces my point. Warren Sapp who I think no one would argue was a beast in a 4-3. When he go moved to a 3-4 he sucked and he sucked badly. Some guys are just not cut out to play a 3-4. Dorsey is one of them.

11-13-2012, 10:45 PM
Sorter Caralho Join Date: Sep 2011 Casino cash: $9611474	Offense/Defense (Philosophy based) We've done several "If you were the GM/HC etc." threads here. However, I'm curious to see what kind of base offensive or defensive philosophies you would choose to try and design the Chiefs with. I know a majority will and should chose to utilize a 1-ga principle defensively but am curious as to the other aspects. Personally, I would hire coaches to install a 1-gap Phillips based 3-4. While I love the fire-zone philosophies, I think that they require even more athletic players than we have currently to run at an elite level constantly and would prefer man-coverage rather than zone on downs/scenarios that dictate a pass. In the future, I would love to be able to incorporate these concepts once personnel has been adjusted accordingly. Offensively, it would depend on the QB we draft. If Barkley, I'm hiring an OC who is based in the WCO and a HC that understands (generally) those philosophies, even if it is a defensive minded coach. Additionally, I would want him to emphasize YAC and back shoulder throws consistently. If Smith or Wilson, I would likely hire someone who continues with a zone-based blocking system (as I feel it fits our smaller, athletic OL better and our backs in Charles/Cyrus better in a 1-cut philosophy). The OC would also utilize PA consistently (via bootlegs off of our stretch play) and would encourage a deeper approach in terms of route concepts, specifically attacking the seams off of motion with our WRs/TEs and and the corners of the field (corners/deep outs, back shoulder throws). I'm curious to see what you all would like to have as there are several talented minds here, IMO.
Posts: 18,455

11-14-2012, 09:35 PM	#36
chiefzilla1501 In Search of a Life Join Date: Aug 2008 Casino cash: $-1635503	I know I'm going to get destroyed for this, but I want to run an old-school Whisenhunt offense. It's basically run-heavy, dink and dunk, but take a lot of shots downfield. I think it's a great system to develop a young pocket QB. In 2-3 years, I then want to open that offense up. Lots of young guys developed in this kind of system. Matt Ryan, Flacco, Big Ben, Brady, Eli... they didn't begin as pass-first offenses. Then open up the offense in 2-3 years when the QB is settled. On defense, it has to be a 1-gap. I'd love to extend Dorsey a year and see if he can adapt. I'd cut Tyson Jackson as he's not 1-gap material. I still like Gus Bradley/Pete Carroll's "under" scheme in Seattle and think it would be a pretty easy transition. Also really like Horton's 3-4 in Arizona. And anybody who thinks Poe should move away from NT is crazy. Poe's value is that he could one day be a nose tackle you never have to take off the field. That's a great player to have in a world where your NTs are 2-down guys who get destroyed when offenses go no-huddle.
Posts: 51,599

11-14-2012, 09:40 PM	#38
petegz28 Supporter Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Olathe, Ks Casino cash: $-975873	Our offensive and defensive philosophies should be one in the same when you get down to it: strike first strike hard strike last It's that simple. Attack, attack, attack.
Posts: 132,390

11-14-2012, 09:59 PM	#45
petegz28 Supporter Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Olathe, Ks Casino cash: $-975873	Ok, not saying he is anything as good but it really reinforces my point. Warren Sapp who I think no one would argue was a beast in a 4-3. When he go moved to a 3-4 he sucked and he sucked badly. Some guys are just not cut out to play a 3-4. Dorsey is one of them.
Posts: 132,390