NFL Draft Anybody here ever actually run the 40? - Page 31

Direckshun · 03-02-2011, 09:15 PM

Curious to see if we have any other athletes out here.

I don't have a stopwatch. Maybe I should see if one of my friends does and get some jackass to time me.

What's your 40 time?

**SAUTO** · 03-04-2011, 07:06 PM

I could see a slower wr having more success than a faster guy. Yeah. It happens all the time in the nfl.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Are you kidding?

Let's say a receiver is timed at running a 4.5 but in reality runs a 4.9. Are you claiming that he'd have the same success on the field as a receiver with true 4.9 speed as opposed to 4.5?

Of course it's not. But the two aren't mutually exclusive. A guy that has great football skills while being fast athletically is going to have a better success rate than a guy with great football skills that runs 5/10ths of a second slower.

Get it?

So? Does that mean that their 40 times were accurate or inaccurate? What's the point?

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**DeezNutz** · 03-04-2011, 07:07 PM

No question that Nzoner needs to have 40-yard dashes at the next CP bash.

**DaneMcCloud** · 03-04-2011, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

I could see a slower wr having more success than a faster guy. Yeah. It happens all the time in the nfl.
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So, if all things are equal except speed, a linebacker that runs a 5.2 is just as successful as a linebacker that runs a 4.7?

Really? Since when?

**SAUTO** · 03-04-2011, 07:13 PM

The main point I'm trying to make is about the inaccuracy of hand timing a 40.

No matter v what anyone says the time could be off by quite a bit.

Actually the ONLY point I agree with dane about is that the runner could conceivably be faster.

Most likely though a4.5 hs runner would be slower due to the level of his training.
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**SAUTO** · 03-04-2011, 07:14 PM

You didn't say all things being equal about that point read your first paragraph again.

Don't move the posts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

So, if all things are equal except speed, a linebacker that runs a 5.2 is just as successful as a linebacker that runs a 4.7?

Really? Since when?

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**DaneMcCloud** · 03-04-2011, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

No question that Nzoner needs to have 40-yard dashes at the next CP bash.

It won't be accurate because there won't be any black guys there.

**DeezNutz** · 03-04-2011, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

It won't be accurate because there won't be any black guys there.

Since I look like Denzel Washington (CP lore), I'll run the stopwatch and this will help.

**SAUTO** · 03-04-2011, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

It won't be accurate because there won't be any black guys there.

I could bring a couple with me if you guys want....
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**DaneMcCloud** · 03-04-2011, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

You didn't say all things being equal about that point read your first paragraph again.

Don't move the posts.

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Bullshit. I've stated this throughout the thread.

That's the point!

That's why our 40 times were accurate in high school!

Because no one that was timed at a 4.7 or a 4.6 or a 4.5 was then deemed to be slower than shit and unworthy of playing time when they hit the next level!

JFC.

**DaneMcCloud** · 03-04-2011, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

The main point I'm trying to make is about the inaccuracy of hand timing a 40.

No matter v what anyone says the time could be off by quite a bit.

Bullshit.

If me or anyone else consistently and repeatedly ran a certain time, that's the time they ran. Period.

You can blather on about hand-timing versus laser timing all you want but it's completely irrelevant because it wasn't available at the high school level.

**SAUTO** · 03-04-2011, 07:26 PM

No one has said 4.5 to "slower than shit"

A tenth or two is very easy to be off on a hand timed 40.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Bullshit. I've stated this throughout the thread.

That's the point!

That's why our 40 times were accurate in high school!

Because no one that was timed at a 4.7 or a 4.6 or a 4.5 was then deemed to be slower than shit and unworthy of playing time when they hit the next level!

JFC.

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**SAUTO** · 03-04-2011, 07:28 PM

Or the coach could consistently hit the button fast. That's also an option.

Again same how many scouts would be running out there to see that player that runs a 4.8 no matter how good of actual player he was?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Bullshit.

If me or anyone else consistently and repeatedly ran a certain time, that's the time they ran. Period.

You can blather on about hand-timing versus laser timing all you want but it's completely irrelevant because it wasn't available at the high school level.

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**SAUTO** · 03-04-2011, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beach tribe

I have no problem admitting when I am wrong, and in this case that seems to be the case,
I apologize to Hootie, SAUTO and everyone else I so stubbornly argued with.

While there are definitely MANY HS kids who run 4.5s it's not exactly as common as I thought. Again. I feel like I was wrong. FWIW

“Nobody Runs a 4.3″: On the Inflation of High School 40 Times
By InTheBleachers.net (Senior Analyst) on February 15, 2009
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I’ve been talking a good deal about 40-yard dash times as of late. Heck, I’ve been talking a good deal about 40-yard dash times for my entire blogging existence. Call it a “pet-project,” but I tend to find the subject fascinating, and not from the usual perspective.

I differ from the casual fans and bloggers, who love to inflate, proliferate, and generally throw 40-yard dash times around as if they were fixed height and weight statistics. I tend to take a more modest approach when it comes to the infamous measurement of football's most prized commodity: speed.

As many of you are no doubt aware by now, I’m typically very skeptical of 40-yard dash times that I hear. I referenced this on National Signing Day during Brian’s liveblog:

4:15 PM EST- The Austin American Statesman has a great article to keep the “numbers” of National Signing Day in perspective. Those who read the blog on a regular basis know I am highly skeptical of reported 40 yard dash times, often because they are self-reported and quite frankly, highly inflated. It’s good to see reporter Alan Trubow set the record straight when it comes to this issue.

Mansfield Timberview running back Eric Stephens — the No. 36-rated recruit on the Fabulous 55 — is 5-11, 200 pounds and has 4.38 speed on texasfootball.com. On Rivals.com, the Texas Tech-bound Stephens is 5-8 (three inches shorter), 177 pounds (nearly 25 pounds lighter) and, according to the site’s analysis, “doesn’t have home-run speed.”

Stephens, insists Timberview coach Terry Cron, is 5-8, 200 pounds and runs about a 4.56.

“I don’t know where some of these guys get their numbers from,” Cron said. “It seems like they heard it from a guy, who heard it from a guy, who heard it from a guy, and that’s good enough to report.”

I encourage you to read the rest of the article, which deals with the “magic” number of a sub 4.6—which many prospects know they must report to even be considered for a FBS offer. Frankly, this whole obsession over 40-times as THE basis for evaluating and offering players is getting out of hand (posted by Adam Nettina).

I referenced this post to remind everyone that when it comes to 40-yard dash times, you’re almost always hearing something that’s marginally, and often substantially, inflated.

This view is consistent in all levels of competition, but seems especially prevalent and most profound at the high school level, where there is often a lack of standardization of testing for the drill. In other words, even if you are getting the “true” 40-yard dash time from the player, there is often no way to verify it under controlled conditions.

We all know certain factors like weather, wind, surface, timing method, and even clothing can effect the speed of an individual over 40 yards . Those variables do not even factor in the countless number of 40-yard dashes a prospect can run in trying to best his previous times.

In other words, there are seldom any 4.3 guys. Heck, I’m not even sure there are many 4.4 or 4.5 guys. But are there a very select handful who have run a 4.3? Sure, but more often than not it’s been on a “fast track” indoor surface, with the benefit of a generous, if not altogether “home team” timing methods.

This has been, I believe, why 40-yard dash times at the NFL combine have typically been slower than one would expect.

So often led to believe that NFL skill, position players must run below the magical line of 4.5 seconds, your average NFL fan would be shocked (yes, shocked) to learn that the average NFL combine times for running backs since 2005 is actually 4.56. The average time for receivers is 4.57.

This very relevant truth must be especially disconcerting with each passing year. Former high school stars of the Rivals.com and Scout.com generation are posting electronic times slower than the ones they claimed coming out of high school.

All of this comes to us not only on the eve of this year’s scouting combine, but also on the heals of the Kennedy/CES Combine held in Atlanta. The combine, held for many of the southeast’s top high school juniors, is thought by some to signal the unofficial start of the 2009/2010 recruiting process.

As expected, several prospects stood out. One of these young men, wide receiver Da’Rick Rogers, ran a blistering 4.34 40-yard dash—at a mind boggling 6′2, 197-lbs. Another prospect, defensive back Ryan Ayers, ran an insane 4.31. And don’t forget about quarterback Qudral Forte, who posted an impressive 4.38.

The only problem is that he didn’t run that fast. In fact none of them did.

Rogers ran a 4.55, Ayers a 4.49, and Forte a 4.59. The discrepancy you ask? The former times were taken from a hand-timer, the latter from an electronic timer—just like to one that is used at the NFL combine.

All three of these young men are extremely fast, but suddenly they don’t look like the all-world sprinters that fans and recruiting junkies so often associate them with. Just looking at the numbers alone, it’s easy to see someone associating a 4.34 or 4.31 and saying that individual is a 4.3 player.

Heck, our tendency to associate 40-yard dash times with the standard tenth of a second could even lead many to cite Forte as a player who runs in the 4.3s. But he’s not. He more of a “4.6″ guy, just as much as Rogers is a mid-4.5 guy and Forte is a 4.5 guy.

So what’s my point? Am I just trying to rip on three random high school juniors who just so happened to test very well (but not that well) at a recent high school combine? Of course not. But I think it’s important to keep the numbers in perspective.

Knowingly or not, fans and media members have created a football culture that’s conducive to the obsession and inflation of individual and team speed. In doing so, we’ve in fact created our own monster when it comes to not only evaluating talent, but in effect determining the educational and financial situations of the thousands of young men who hope to earn college football scholarships.

In an effort to keep pace with numbers that are all to often misleading (like the hand-timed 40-yard dashes mentioned above) more and more high school football players inflate, mislead, or flat-out lie about their own 40-yard dash times. This is happening with increasing regularity, proliferating a myth of what is truly fast and what is not.

Yet when we evaluate the numbers across the board (and not just in the 40-yard dash either) we find that the benchmarks such as size, speed, and strength are not what we thought they were.

Does that make the young men who play the game any less impressive from an athletic standpoint? Of course not. So why is it that some 42-year-old bum sitting in his cubicle has the audacity to categorically determine whether a player is “fast enough” or “strong enough” to play Division I football?

It boggles my mind, and hopefully, after reading and studying over the above facts, it will start to boggle yours as well.

For More on 40-Yard Dash Times and the NFL Draft, be sure to check out DraftDaddy.com’s excellent article

http://draftdaddy.com/features/avg_combine.htm
SOME OFFICIAL COMBINE AVERAGES

REVIEW OF TIMED SPEED QUALIFICATIONS @ THE MOST RECENT NFL COMBINE

Most people that surf Draftdaddy.com are savvy football fans, but we see a lot of psychopaths on team message boards (and other sites) that kick and scream and curse their favorite teams' execs and scouts if they, for example, draft a running back, wide receiver or defensive back that runs a 4.6 or higher.....or a linebacker or tight end that runs a 4.8.

But reality is most N.F.L. players don't have elite "track speed", despite the myth's many mainstream media pundits and writers tend to put forth. With that said, we just wanted to post some official Combine averages to show what more "realistic" 40 yard dash expectations for prospects should be:

Quarterbacks: Average Size -- 6032, 222 pounds.....40 Times -- 4.90 (hand timed average) --- 4.87 (electronic time)

Tailbacks: 5104, 211.....40 Times 4.57 (HT) -- 4.56 (ET)

Wide Receivers: 6007, 203.....40 Times -- 4.58 (HT) -- 4.57 (ET)

Tight Ends: 6045, 254 pounds.....40 Times: 4.8 (HT) -- 4.78 (ET)

Defensive Ends: 6032, 263 pounds.....40 Times: 4.89 (HT) -- 4.88 (ET)

Defensive Tackles: 6031, 303 pounds.....40 Times: 5.19 (HT & ET)

Inside Linebacker: 6010, 238 pounds....40 Times: 4.79 (HT) -- 4.76 (ET)

Outside Linebacker: 6011, 234 pounds....40 Times: 4.76 (HT) -- 4.74 (ET)

Cornerbacks: 5108, 193 pounds.....40 Times: 4.52 (HT) -- 4.47 (ET)

Free Safety: 5115, 204.....40 Times: 4.61 (HT) -- 4.57 (ET)

Strong Safety: 6005, 212....40 Times: 4.57 (HT) -- 4.54 (ET)

DD.comments:

We didn't bother to post the average times for tackles, guards and centers because we didn't feel it was that important for 300 (plus) pound lineman. But, suffice it to say that any offensive lineman (or defensive tackle) that runs a 5.0 or lower is considered fast for his size....Also, we did not post the fullbacks "average" because it was a very small sample of players (5) and a couple of "big guys" pulled the average 40 time pretty high.

****
Prior to 2005, these numbers were actually a bit higher at all positions -- average strong safeties (for example) came in around 4.67. But Indy replaced it's old "slower" track with a new, faster track and "official" workout times have gone up across the board. Matter of fact, because of the new turf, the N.F.L. is seeing more top prospects actually run in Indy -- in years past, many would only run the 40 yard dash at Pro Day.

****
Wide receivers: This sampling of about 50 (49) that ran at the Combine should end the mainstream media's stupid theories that any wide receiver prospect that clocks a bit over 4.5 need not apply in the N.F.L. If this was the case, teams would not be able to find enough real football players to fill roster spots at wide receiver.

****
Cornerbacks: That's a total of 31 players. It's weird, a bunch of players blazed the track, but quite a few ran high 4.6's and low 4.7's, which skewed everything upward. Nonetheless, we are sure it would shock many to know that 31 top cornerback prospects would have an average hand-time of 4.52 at the Combine.

****
Strong safeties look faster than usual, but that's a small sample (6 prospects), skewed lower by two players that ran real fast -- Josh Barrett and Tyrell Johnson.

****
Are 40 times overrated? Sometimes.....One scout told us that a 4.5 linebacker with a poor nose for the football (takes bad first steps and angles to the ball) is almost as useless on the field as a linebacker that runs above a 5.1 in the forty....But he want on to say a linebacker that runs about a 5.0 (i.e. Lofa Tatupu) that has a great nose for the ball, becomes a 4.5 (or better) linebacker on the field of play.

****
Be very careful when comparing these numbers to Pro Day numbers, because track and weather conditions vary so much from location to location, that it renders most Pro Day to Combine comparisons in the 40 yard dash useless. For example, Oklahoma linebacker Curtis Lofton ran Combine 40 times in the 4.8's hand timed (4.79 electronic), but his Pro Day times were in the 4.6's.

***

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**SAUTO** · 03-04-2011, 07:38 PM

Above was for you dane.

and btw there were three more 4.5 or less in the third page, at least that I saw looking for that post.
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el borracho · 03-04-2011, 07:49 PM

I ran a 5.1 in borrowed cleats on the football field in 1994. yeah, I've never been fast.

03-02-2011, 09:15 PM
Direckshun __ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Springpatch Casino cash: $2053447	Anybody here ever actually run the 40? Curious to see if we have any other athletes out here. I don't have a stopwatch. Maybe I should see if one of my friends does and get some jackass to time me. What's your 40 time?
Posts: 59,693

03-04-2011, 07:13 PM	#454
SAUTO Shit Join Date: Jun 2008 Casino cash: $10039067	The main point I'm trying to make is about the inaccuracy of hand timing a 40. No matter v what anyone says the time could be off by quite a bit. Actually the ONLY point I agree with dane about is that the runner could conceivably be faster. Most likely though a4.5 hs runner would be slower due to the level of his training. Posted via Mobile Device
Posts: 55,715

03-04-2011, 07:38 PM	#464
SAUTO Shit Join Date: Jun 2008 Casino cash: $10039067	Above was for you dane. and btw there were three more 4.5 or less in the third page, at least that I saw looking for that post. Posted via Mobile Device
Posts: 55,715

03-04-2011, 07:49 PM	#465
el borracho In Pat We Trust Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Albuquerque, NM Casino cash: $2619148	I ran a 5.1 in borrowed cleats on the football field in 1994. yeah, I've never been fast.
Posts: 12,258