Soccer

[Raiderhater]

Gheyest sport in the world. That pretty much sums it up.

[Old Dog]

Originally Posted by WoodDraw

And if the theory is that soccer can rival football, that's silly.

Ummmmm, it ws one of the soccer guys on this site that said something along the lines of this game being able to outdraw the Chiefs.
Check posts #167 and #174
That's the very debate we had then.

[MadMax]

Originally Posted by frazod

We visited my inlaws today and my FIL was watching this shit! I mean, normally he only torments me with golf, but now he's watching soccer? ****. Actually made me WISH I was watching golf.

So yes, believe it or not, I actually watched part of that ****ing 1-0 snorefest, at least until it put me to sleep. Ugh. I saw the goal scored after somebody woke me up.

Yay Spain. And thank God it's over.

!!!!

[WoodDraw]

Originally Posted by truebigdog

Ummmmm, it ws one of the soccer guys on this site that said something along the lines of this game being able to outdraw the Chiefs.
Check posts #167 and #174
That's the very debate we had then.

If you get the right game, soccer could easily sell out Arrowhead. You'd have to see two Euro top clubs though. Or any WC game.

But that doesn't mean soccer will compete with football, and no one in your listed posts made that point. It's a stupid point for anyone to make, other than to say that soccer can draw huge fans under the right circumstances.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Chuck Klosterman has an essay called George Will vs. Nick Hornsby that explains soccer hate from an intellectual soccer haters perspective. It's worth a read.

That aside, it seems to me like most of the people who hate soccer hate the people who like it than anything else.

[Pablo]

Originally Posted by Reaper16

Take a look at the broadcasts from some of the home Chiefs games this year and tell me with a straight face that 52,000 were there.

I was at the blackout Chiefs v. Browns game and I was at the ManU/Wizards match.

I'd be willing to bet there were still more people at the Chiefs game, FWIW. But it could have been a draw. Not to take away from the soccer match, I had a fantastic time.

[|Zach|]

Good times for Soccer fans in Kansas City.

[WoodDraw]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Chuck Klosterman has an essay called George Will vs. Nick Hornsby that explains soccer hate from an intellectual soccer haters perspective. It's worth a read.

That aside, it seems to me like most of the people who hate soccer hate the people who like it than anything else.

Bill Simmons wrote a good article on this:

SG: You just introduced a premise called "The Cult of Status Quo." Sometimes when people become die-hard fans of something that isn't mainstream -- a writer, a band, a player, a TV show, a sport or whatever -- they want to keep that thing the way it is over seeing that thing take off. Why? Because it's cooler to like something that isn't mainstream popular. Because mainstream popularity begets bandwagon fans and people who aren't as sophisticated about that product. Because it's more fun to love something before it takes off than after it takes off.

Hence, it's easier for original fans to dump on newer fans than to tolerate them and hope they advance the cause of whatever they like. I notice this every time I mention the UFC or poker -- there's this bizarre (and totally dismissive) backlash, as if I'm not allowed to watch those sports or even mention them because I'm not a real fan. Well, how do you become a real fan? By liking a sport without disliking the core people who like it. So it's a self-perpetuating cycle, and as weird as this sounds, the original fans like it that way. It maintains their ownership of the product. When the product outgrows them (specifically in the case of a creative entity), that's when the core fans start throwing around phrases like "jumped the shark" and "sold out," mostly because they're bitter it's not just them and the product any more.

With soccer, die-hard American fans love the World Cup itself, but they hate everything that comes with it; the World Cup drudges up the same storylines they've learned to despise ("Soccer can't take off unless X, Y or Z happens," "Our best athletes don't play soccer," "It can never be big here unless there's more scoring" and "They should get rid of offsides," to name four). I don't blame them for reacting negatively to that stuff, but you wouldn't call them welcoming, either. And they have taken a ton of crap over the years, which tends to harden the line between real fans and everyone else. I can tell you that in the past 15 months, when I wrote about soccer a few times and it became clear that it was more than a bandwagon thing, and that I was actually starting to understand what I was watching -- the feedback from die-hards has been tremendous (and much appreciated). They just need to be a little less condescending with neophytes.

For fun, I asked David Hirshey (soccer historian, author of "The ESPN World Cup Companion") and Michael Davies (TV producer, World Cup blogger) for their takes:

Hirshey: "The question of authenticity among fans is hardly soccer-centric. I started watching 'Mad Men' after the third episode had aired. I have a friend who became obsessed with the series once the first season DVD came out. Now he never misses an episode. Are we bandwagon jumpers? Sure, if you want to view it that way. Me, I just want everyone to love soccer the way I fell for it back in the late 1960s -- when you had to walk 10 miles (OK, blocks), in the snow, just to hear the score of a Man U-Arsenal game. Does being a fan for the past 40 plus years make me any more legitimate than someone who embraced the sport this summer because Landon Donovan scored a dramatic goal in the World Cup or Diego Forlan has great hair? Absolutely not. Are there still so-called 'die-hards' who want soccer in this country to remain a kind of secret Skull and Bones society where membership is passed down through generations? Sadly, yes. I say De Jong them in the chest and tell them to get over themselves."

Davies: "I completely agree that many die-hard soccer fans in the U.S. have learned to become just as annoying and condescending as die-hard soccer fans in England and all over the world. Globalization is a wonderful thing. But that doesn't seem to be the main premise of the Q from Zanesville. What BP is actually arguing is that soccer still isn't going anywhere in the U.S. And whatever Glenn Beck says, it's just tough to argue against the empirical data -- TV ratings, website traffic, bar tabs. They're all going up during and around soccer games. That seems to indicate that however annoying or casual the fans are, or however annoying they are to each other, they are still watching. Yes, the World Cup more than anything else. But U.S. interest in the English Premier League and Champions League and the ratings and website traffic surrounding those leagues is growing significantly, too. There are even people who watch Major League Soccer. And that may be the biggest miracle of all. And the biggest proof that soccer must be going somewhere here. It's like Daniel Kellison's --former executive producer of 'The Man Show' and 'Jimmy Kimmel Live'-- heterosexuality test: Any man can have sex with a model, but only the most heterosexual of men can bring himself to have sex with a truly unattractive woman. The fact that American soccer fans can sit through 90 minutes of MLS is proof of a love of soccer beyond anything the rest of the world can possibly fathom."

I agree with that in bold, but it's all worth reading.

[Silock]

I'll say it again: tickets sold != attendance

[BWillie]

It amazes me that so many people go to these MLS games around here. What'd they draw the other night 54K? I continue to scratch my head about how it gets good attendance. Nobody I know or work with in Kansas City cares about soccer. There is very little media exposure on the radio and on local television in general. When I'm tailgating at Chiefs games or at Royal's games most of the people I talk to hate soccer. I just don't know where these people are coming from. I know it's only my first hand personal experience, it just boggles my mind. It obviously must get attendance and popularity from the non-traditional sports fan somewhere.

[Old Dog]

Originally Posted by Silock

For a routine game, no, you wouldn't get Wizards fans outnumbering Chiefs fans for a routine game. But for a meaningful game, yes, the Wizards fans would outnumber the Chiefs fans for a routine game.

Do you have any idea how many tickets the Manchester United game has sold already?

3,500? CAB has a capacity of about 7500, and the Wizards regularly fill the stadium.

Originally Posted by Silock

For a single game, I could see it. See: Manchester United game.

Originally Posted by Silock

I'll say it again: tickets sold != attendance

Still not as many as the lowest attended Chiefs game

[Silock]

Yeah, I don't think so. Go back and look at the lowest attended Chiefs game and tell me with a straight face (to quote Reaper) that there were more Chiefs fans actually at the game. I don't buy it.

Either way, you're really going to quibble about 52,4XX vs 53,XXX? Hardly any difference at all. And if you'd said that the Wizards were going to beat United, I bet you'd have another 10k. I'd have been there. Plus, the next day, the Wizards sold 800 more season ticket packages, so I'd say that the whole event was a huge success, even if you don't.

[Old Dog]

You said tickets sold = attendance. Does that only apply to soccer?

52,000 for a soccer game featuring arguably the most popular team in the world
53,315 for a week 15 matchup of 3-11 teams with a kickoff temp in the 30s

now do you still think that soccer can outdraw the chiefs here?

[Silock]

Tickets sold does NOT equal attendance. Being that the soccer game was a special event, and there were CLEARLY 52,4XX people there, yeah, I'd say it's an exception. Were there clearly that many people at the Chiefs games? I don't think so, but I'm open to being proven wrong if they actually got that many butts into seats.

Yes, I still think that soccer can outdraw the Chiefs. You'd have to be blind to see the virtually equal attendance numbers and think that it couldn't.

[Old Dog]

Originally Posted by Silock

I'll say it again: tickets sold != attendance

Originally Posted by Silock

Tickets sold does NOT equal attendance.
Yes, I still think that soccer can outdraw the Chiefs.
You'd have to be blind to see the virtually equal attendance numbers and think that it couldn't.

Make up your mind. Maybe I previously gave you more credit than I should have.

LOL that the "special event" couldn't outdraw the worst Chiefs outing in 20+ years.

[Silock]

Do you not know what the != sign means? It means "does not equal." My position hasn't changed.