The Official "Lost" the series discussion

[Deberg_1990]

I figured I would start a thread for this and see what happens....there seemed to be quite a few viewers on the board for this show the past few weeks.....I like the direction the show is taking so far......episode 3 tonight at 7 central on ABC....

[Fish]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Unless they are going to interrupt the final two episodes with backstory, I guess we never get any explanations about the whole Egyptian mythology - statue, temples, etc.

I'm still stuck with a nagging feeling that this will come back into play. I can even see a chance that the Mother is/was actually Tawaret. Tawaret was the goddess of birth and fertility(obviously a running theme on the island). Tawaret was seen as having both good and evil qualities. Known as one who protected against evil by restraining it(Protecting the island).

And that Smokey is actually either Apep or Set, who were both the God of Evil(Apep first, then Set took over the role. They were in a sense viewed as the same person). Apep/Set was always identified as a snake or serpent(Smokey resemblence), and known as the god of storms. Also seen as the deification of darkness, and the enemy of light(black and white stones). Apep/Set resided in the underworld(the cave from which the light sprung). The Temple of Set is known for rebirth and immortality(The temple pool). Apep was known as the eater of souls, and the dead also needed protection against him(Smokey possessing the dead). Apep could only be defeated(not necessarily killed) by fettering(restricting him to the island), or by stabbing him with a knife(Dogon's knife).

I don't know, I could be way off here, but this is what was floating around my brain when watching this latest episode..

The trouble I'm having with it though is how in the world does Jacob and MIB come into play with that theory...

[tymania]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

I'm still stuck with a nagging feeling that this will come back into play. I can even see a chance that the Mother is/was actually Tawaret. Tawaret was the goddess of birth and fertility(obviously a running theme on the island). Tawaret was seen as having both good and evil qualities. Known as one who protected against evil by restraining it(Protecting the island).

And that Smokey is actually either Apep or Set, who were both the God of Evil(Apep first, then Set took over the role. They were in a sense viewed as the same person). Apep/Set was always identified as a snake or serpent(Smokey resemblence), and known as the god of storms. Also seen as the deification of darkness, and the enemy of light(black and white stones). Apep/Set resided in the underworld(the cave from which the light sprung). The Temple of Set is known for rebirth and immortality(The temple pool). Apep was known as the eater of souls, and the dead also needed protection against him(Smokey possessing the dead). Apep could only be defeated(not necessarily killed) by fettering(restricting him to the island), or by stabbing him with a knife(Dogon's knife).

I don't know, I could be way off here, but this is what was floating around my brain when watching this latest episode..

The trouble I'm having with it though is how in the world does Jacob and MIB come into play with that theory...

I like your theory.. it makes sense. If i had to guess this is a part of the mythology behind LOST, and i am sure it is mixed in with other Mythologies

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Buck

Thats pretty assumptive, but it makes sense. I agree with everything else you said.

Well, all of her people are gone.

Apparently, she killed all of MIB's people as well.

I doubt that her shipmates died a natural death.

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Clearly THIS.

Jacob's brother was dead as soon as he was thrown into the "Light".

The Smoke Monster took his form (just as it did John Locke).

But he's still the Monster in the Cave.

Something is keeping him on the Island. Whether it's Jacob or the Candidates or the electromagnetism, someone doesn't want him to leave.

I do think it's a drag that they didn't reveal his name.

But Jacob's brother died years ago (maybe a millenia ago).

Nope, I don't think that was clear at all.

The episode built up how "special" mib was and how he just "knew" certain things...

THEN we are told that going into the light won't kill you but will do something worse to you...

THEN mib goes into the light causing him to lose his corporeal form and become smokey

I also think the same thing happened to "mother" at some earlier point... which is how she knew something "worse" would happen and also explains her ability to wipe out an entire village

If the smoke monster is a seperate entity that just took mib's form... then the show has lost its burst and the writers shoulda quit while they were ahead.

[Buck]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Well, all of her people are gone.

Apparently, she killed all of MIB's people as well.

I doubt that her shipmates died a natural death.

You are implying she came over on a ship.

Did she say this in the episode? Am I missing something?

[Buck]

OOOOOH FUUUUUCK JUST THOUGHT OF SOMETHING

You know how MIB could see his Dead Mom?

Well which of the Losties can see dead people? Thats right, Hurley.

I think that might mean since he is special he'll end up taking MIB's place.

I sort of think Jack is like Jacob too, Jacobs mom didn't believe in him at first, just like Jacks dad. But in the end they finally believed in them. So he'll take Jacobs spot.

[Shag]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

Nope, I don't think that was clear at all.

The episode built up how "special" mib was and how he just "knew" certain things...

THEN we are told that going into the light won't kill you but will do something worse to you...

THEN mib goes into the light causing him to lose his corporeal form and become smokey

I also think the same thing happened to "mother" at some earlier point... which is how she knew something "worse" would happen and also explains her ability to wipe out an entire village

If the smoke monster is a seperate entity that just took mib's form... then the show has lost its burst and the writers shoulda quit while they were ahead.

This is what I was saying earlier, and I'm with you for the most part...

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

Nope, I don't think that was clear at all.

The episode built up how "special" mib was and how he just "knew" certain things...

THEN we are told that going into the light won't kill you but will do something worse to you...

THEN mib goes into the light causing him to lose his corporeal form and become smokey

I also think the same thing happened to "mother" at some earlier point... which is how she knew something "worse" would happen and also explains her ability to wipe out an entire village

If the smoke monster is a seperate entity that just took mib's form... then the show has lost its burst and the writers shoulda quit while they were ahead.

But if the Mother could also turn into the Smoke Monster, why would she want to protect the light in the cave? Why wouldn't she want to be unleashed on the world like the Flocke/MIB/Smoke Monster?

Plus, the Mother obviously didn't lose her corporeal form, so that theory is out the window.

When she died, she decomposed, as did Jacob's twin brother.

I think the Smoke Monster is some sort of demon that needs a dead body to inhabit in order to leave the Island. Otherwise, he's trapped forever.

[Buck]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

But if the Mother could also turn into the Smoke Monster, why would she want to protect the light in the cave? Why wouldn't she want to be unleashed on the world like the Flocke/MIB/Smoke Monster?

Plus, the Mother obviously didn't lose her corporeal form, so that theory is out the window.

When she died, she decomposed, as did Jacob's twin brother.

If somebody can reasonably explain to me how the Village was so ****ed up and the well was completely filled up with dirt and rocks, then I will listen.

Until then I am going with she was a smokey, or some sort of similar creature.

---

OH SHIIIIIIIIIIIII

Just thought of something.

Remember how she said you don't die if you go in the light, something far worse happense to you? Well the only way she could know is if she either went in the light orrrrrrrr, she saw someone go in the light. Maybe there was another smokey on the island, and when MIB went in, he replaced that smokey, as Jacob replaced his mother.

I don't think we'll ever find out though.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Buck

If somebody can reasonably explain to me how the Village was so ****ed up and the well was completely filled up with dirt and rocks, then I will listen.

Until then I am going with she was a smokey, or some sort of similar creature.

She couldn't be the/a Smoke Monster because she was flesh and blood when the MIB killed her.

The Smoke Monster we've seen (MIB/Flocke) isn't flesh and blood, so that theory is out the window.

Plus, we've never seen the Smoke Monster exhibit supernatural strength and power.

Just the power to kill.

[Shag]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

But if the Mother could also turn into the Smoke Monster, why would she want to protect the light in the cave? Why wouldn't she want to be unleashed on the world like the Flocke/MIB/Smoke Monster?

Plus, the Mother obviously didn't lose her corporeal form.

When she died, she decomposed, as did the MIB.

If smokey is essentially the MIB in a different form, then it makes sense that it/he would maintain his pre-existing desire to get off the island.

I'm not 100% sold on the mother being the (or A) smoke monster, though I don't think it's implausible. You do make a good point about the body, though.

The two things that keep me from thinking that MIB is dead and smokey is simply using his form:

- the mother claimed that Jacob and MIB couldn't kill ("hurt", but kill is implied) each other
- the mother claiming that by going into the light, you wouldn't die, but instead suffer a worse fate

I think smokey was somehow spawned from the essense (soul?) of MIB when he went into the light...

[Buck]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

She couldn't be the/a Smoke Monster because she was flesh and blood when the MIB killed her.

The Smoke Monster we've seen (MIB/Flocke) isn't flesh and blood, so that theory is out the window.

Plus, we've never seen the Smoke Monster exhibit supernatural strength and power.

Just the power to kill.

See my edited post.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Shag

If smokey is essentially the MIB in a different form, then it makes sense that it/he would maintain his pre-existing desire to get off the island.

I'm not 100% sold on the mother being the (or A) smoke monster, though I don't think it's implausible. You do make a good point about the body, though.

The two things that keep me from thinking that MIB is dead and smokey is simply using his form:

- the mother claimed that Jacob and MIB couldn't kill ("hurt", but kill is implied) each other
- the mother claiming that by going into the light, you wouldn't die, but instead suffer a worse fate

I think smokey was somehow spawned from the essense (soul?) of MIB when he went into the light...

It wouldn't make sense that the Smoke Monster is actually the MIB because if that was the case and he would be maintaining a pre-existing desire, that desire would be completely eradicated by taking the form of John Locke, who's pre-existing desire was to return to the island and never leave.

[Shag]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

It wouldn't make sense that the Smoke Monster is actually the MIB because if that was the case and he would be maintaining a pre-existing desire, that desire would be completely eradicated by taking the form of John Locke, who's pre-existing desire was to return to the island and never leave.

I'm not saying that smokey would take on the desires of whatever form he assumes, but rather the desires of the being that spawned him - the MIB. I think the ability to take other forms is just a tool of smokey (a disguise), but doesn't change who/what the smoke monster is at its nature.

If the MIB wasn't part of the origin of the smoke monster, then why bother showing that scene? It has to be important that the smoke monster emerged at the exact same time that MIB went into the light. There also has to be significance to the "fate worse than death" comment about going into the light, IMHO.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Shag

I'm not saying that smokey would take on the desires of whatever form he assumes, but rather the desires of the being that spawned him - the MIB. I think the ability to take other forms is just a tool of smokey (a disguise), but doesn't change who/what the smoke monster is at its nature.

If the MIB wasn't part of the origin of the smoke monster, then why bother showing that scene? It has to be important that the smoke monster emerged at the exact same time that MIB went into the light, IMHO.

I think the scene was shown for two reasons:

1. To reveal the consequences of entering the light in the cave.
2. To reveal that Jacob's twin brother was actually dead and NOT the Smoke Monster.

The Smoke Monster is able to take the form of any dead human that it thinks will benefit it in its attempt to escape the island.

First, it used the identity of Jacob's dead brother but after hundreds (maybe thousands) of years, it figures out that the MIB's identity does him no good. So, he hatches a plot (as we saw in Season Five) to where he can take the identity of John Locke, knowing that people trust and will follow him, thus helping the Smoke Monster to get off the island.

I think the writers made it a point to confuse the viewer as to the Smoke Monster's real identity by having the MIB want to leave the island as well.