The Official "Lost" the series discussion

[Deberg_1990]

I figured I would start a thread for this and see what happens....there seemed to be quite a few viewers on the board for this show the past few weeks.....I like the direction the show is taking so far......episode 3 tonight at 7 central on ABC....

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by Chiefless

Mad Men is worth the effort as well. I really like that show kinda despite itself. I really did not think I would like it. But, I couldn't stop watching. To tie it back into Lost: If Lost was sincerely attempting to be a character driven show, it pales miserably to Mad Men.

There is no shorter way to gauge interest in Mad Men than to take a couple minutes to view 'The Carousel.' If it spurs interest, you'll love the show, if it somehow leaves you cold, you probably won't get the show overall.

Perhaps the only thing that could add to the viewing experience would be some background on how tenuous the 'pitch guy's' home life being projected actually is, but it hold up on its own.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2bLNkCqpuY

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by Red Brooklyn

Absolutley. Two of my favorite parts. I totally check behind my back too! I also threw the book down and told it to go **** itself.

Did you put it in the Freezer?

[Red Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

There is no shorter way to gauge interest in Mad Men than to take a couple minutes to view 'The Carousel.' If it spurs interest, you'll love the show, if it somehow leaves you cold, you probably won't get the show overall.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2bLNkCqpuY

Won't get it or won't like it?

[Red Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Did you put it in the Freezer?

How harshly will you judge me if the answer is yes?

[Reaper16]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

To be fair, we're comparing a Veyron and a Koenigsegg here.

But the things that push Deadwood over the top for me, and FTR it stands as #1 all time [even though it kind of petered out at the end, and the abruptness of it's ending for John From Cincinnati makes it difficult to assess without bias].

1) Its loving detailed use of language, not the 'bad' language but the forced mal-eloquence of frontiersmen who needed to establish their intelligence and strength in short order as a matter of survival.

2) The continued exploration of what it means to civilize, started with Scorsese through Mean Streets, Taxi Driver, Goodfellas, and culminating in Gangs of New York, and echoed in Milch's earlier work in HSB and NYPD Blue.

In that sense, The Wire is the other end of the continuum, how civilization unwinds and decays. I just find the exploration of how humans, injected into a world where there are no rules and no structures for ordered conduct, set about erecting those structures to be more interesting overall than the decay side.

3) While I appreciate all the work that went into the drama in The Wire, the immediacy of the storylines in Deadwood was more gripping for me. Whether it was the physical, visceral pain of Al passing gleets, or the drunken sadness of Calamity Jane mourning her only friend, or the vainglorious anger of Seth when the honor of his love was besmirched, or the dead-eyed scheming of Tolliver, and don't get me started on Trixie's tale . . . I invested heavier in those storylines than those of The Wire. Maybe it's latent racism, maybe it's that Deadwood tried to show glimpses of people trying to summon their better angels, while The Wire focused more on how shitty everyone is at their base.

4) Finally, Deadwood was as accomplished at humor as it was at drama. No way on earth Bunk losing his tie matched up with Swegin one who sucks the penis!!!

In short, if I had to summarize as succinctly as possible, as The Wire is to a Scorsese masterpiece, Deadwood is to Shakespeare.

EDIT to add: How the **** did it take me until to today to realize that Martha Bullock is Skyler White?

Those all sound like reasons why you like Deadwood more then The Wire. Wire isn't my very favorite show, either. But I can't see how it isn't "the best" when coming from an attempted standpoint of objectivity.

On the point about humor: the tie-cutting thing was more of a bit of authenticity than it was an example of excellent humor. The Wire is no slouch when it comes to handling drama and humor with equal aplomb, sometimes at the very same time. The scene with McNulty and Bunk dissecting a crime scene while only communicating with each other in variations of "****" comes to mind.

I think you're dead on about the two shows occupying end spots on a sort of continuum (and The Sopranos could be said to be somewhere in the middle, leaning towards The Wire-side).

I do balk at the comparison of Wire & Scorcese, Deadwood & Shakespeare, mostly because one show is compared with a director and the other an author. If Deadwood is Shakespeare (which I am unsure of but I'll go with it) then The Wire is Brecht.

[Red Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by Reaper16

I do balk at the comparison of Wire & Scorcese, Deadwood & Shakespeare, mostly because one show is compared with a director and the other an author. If Deadwood is Shakespeare (which I am unsure of but I'll go with it) then The Wire is Brecht.

Yikes. And See. I hate Brecht. So.....

I do, however, adore The Bard. Maybe I should start my modern TV education with Deadwood....

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by Reaper16

Those all sound like reasons why you like Deadwood more then The Wire.

Not sure how else I would respond to a critique of my previous stance that I liked Deadwood better than The Wire.

Originally Posted by Reaper16

I do balk at the comparison of Wire & Scorcese, Deadwood & Shakespeare, mostly because one show is compared with a director and the other an author. If Deadwood is Shakespeare (which I am unsure of but I'll go with it) then The Wire is Brecht.

I was going for relatability using two confirmed and well known masters [one a master of our time and another a master for all time], over ontological purity.

[Reaper16]

Originally Posted by Red Brooklyn

Yikes. And See. I hate Brecht. So.....

I do, however, adore The Bard. Maybe I should start my modern TV education with Deadwood....

There is a certain agit-prop element to The Wire. That's what I was getting at with the Brecht comparison. Don't take either comparison as firm or even very useful at all, really.

Doesn't matter what you start with, only that you start.

[Reaper16]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Not sure how else I would respond to a critique of my previous stance that I liked Deadwood better than The Wire.

I distinguish between "like better" and "is better." Those two can be very different for me.

[Red Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by Reaper16

There is a certain agit-prop element to The Wire. That's what I was getting at with the Brecht comparison. Don't take either comparison as firm or even very useful at all, really.

Doesn't matter what you start with, only that you start.

[Buck]

I would start with Breaking Bad to be honest with you, you can get through it quicker than The Wire.

Also I only got about 6 to 8 episodes into Deadwood before I just stopped watching it.

I believe the last episode I saw was the one after "Reconnoitering the Rims."

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by Red Brooklyn

How harshly will you judge me if the answer is yes?

The two times I recall a similar reaction;

When Winston and Julia are discovered.

The degloving in Gerald's Game.

Vastly different realms, same result.

[Shag]

Originally Posted by Buck

Also I only got about 6 to 8 episodes into Deadwood before I just stopped watching it.

I believe the last episode I saw was the one after "Reconnoitering the Rims."

And so, I return the favor...

[Red Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by Buck

I would start with Breaking Bad to be honest with you, you can get through it quicker than The Wire.

Also I only got about 6 to 8 episodes into Deadwood before I just stopped watching it.

I believe the last episode I saw was the one after "Reconnoitering the Rims."

Without ruining anything (obviously) what did you dislike about Deadwood? And why is Breaking Bad more interesting to you?

[Buck]

Originally Posted by Red Brooklyn

Without ruining anything (obviously) what did you dislike about Deadwood? And why is Breaking Bad more interesting to you?

I liked it. Not The Wire, Lost, or Breaking Bad liked it, but around that time I was watching so much that I just quit watching it. I haven't made the effort to pick it back up, and I know that the action is going to pick up soon where I am at.

Maybe I should watch it now that I am going through a phase of watching Westerns and playing Red Dead Redemption.