GRETZ: Battle Gone; More to Come - Page 4

Coogs · 08-11-2006, 08:10 AM

I know everyone knows Battle is toast, Just thought I would post the article in a new thread.

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GRETZ: Battle Gone; More to Come
Aug 11, 2006, 7:57:03 AM by Bob Gretz - FAQ

RIVER FALLS, WI – It will not go down as one of the more earth-shaking personnel moves in recent Chiefs history.

But the decision to release cornerback Julian Battle on Friday certainly caught the attention of his once fellow teammates.

And there will be more “surprises” in the coming days and weeks as Herm Edwards begins to pull out the weeds in the Chiefs roster.

“Just not good enough,” was Edwards’ reply when asked why Battle was released. “We did it now so he would have a better opportunity of catching on somewhere else.”

A spot was needed with the signing of quarterback Jeff Smoker, but there were others on the roster that could have been sent packing at this time. The decision to waive Battle was done to send the message that Edwards has stressed from Day One in Kansas City: he doesn’t want the players to feel too comfortable about their status.

Battle was one of those players who felt very comfortable. The Chiefs attempted to trade him on Friday. Actually, it’s the second time in the last few weeks they floated his name on the NFL grapevine hoping for a nibble. When they signed veteran cornerback Ty Law the week that training camp starters, Battle expressed his displeasure and asked to be traded.

They found no takers then, and none this week, so he was released.

The fact that Battle actually thought he was tradable was a symptom of his biggest problem: he thinks he’s good enough. Yet, the fourth-year pro has done nothing during his time with the Chiefs to show he could be a contributing player to the defense. His season last year was wiped out by an Achilles’ tendon injury in mini-camp. But he rehabbed and was at 100 percent through the off-season program and during two weeks of training camp.

Battle’s biggest problem was his lack of consistency. There have been times since he joined the Chiefs when he showed flashes of ability. Physically, he might be as gifted a cornerback as Dale Carter.

But the times when he displayed that ability were few and far between. He could not carry it from one play to another. Even in practice, he would handle coverage well on one play, then he would come back on the next play and completely forget about what he learned just 30 seconds earlier. Plus, he’s prone to penalties. Last Friday night in the practice against the Minnesota Vikings, on his first play of one-on-one pass coverage, he was flagged for holding by the NFL game officials who were working the affair.

Edwards isn’t going to put up with that type of inconsistency. That’s one of the major reasons that cornerback Eric Warfield was sent packing in the off-season. This defense is built on a foundation of strong, consistent fundamentals. Battle never figured that out.

His release is another defensive draft failure for the Chiefs. Battle was a third-round pick in 2003, a first-day choice and he joins recent first-day busts like DT Eric Downing (3rd-round, 2001), DT Eddie Freeman (2nd-round, 2002) and DT Junior Siavii (2nd-round, 2004), who remains missing in action in this training camp and could be the next weed pulled from the roster.

When Dick Vermeil was the head coach, his approach to player evaluation could be characterized as: we’ve seen you perform at least once, so we believe you have the ability to do it again and we’ll work with you to make that happen.

Edwards attitude is: do it once, then show me you can do it again, and again, and again, and then I’ll believe you can play.

Julian Battle never came close to achieving that performance level.

The opinions offered in this column do not necessarily reflect those of the Kansas City Chiefs.

htismaqe · 08-11-2006, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coogs

Yesterday afternoon on 610, I heard an interview with Holthus (I just caught the end of the interview, so I am not 100% sure it was him, but it sure sounded like him). Anyway, he said Hicks is having a great camp, not a good camp, but a great camp. If this is true, this is good news for our side I would think.

His job is on the line.

FINALLY.

htismaqe · 08-11-2006, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hawkchief

Careful, Laz. You are about to be labeled as making merely dumbass and stupid comments, by the board mods. It's important that we revere Carl and all that he does here on CP. Carl is a terrific GM, and we shouldn't ever question how he so effectively runs the Chiefs.

Laz knows what he's talking about. Comments like his rarely elicit anything other than further discussion.

Comments like yours above, however, generally elicit the comments you refer to.

Maybe that's because you really are a dumbass.

**Baby Lee** · 08-11-2006, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coogs

When Dick Vermeil was the head coach, his approach to player evaluation could be characterized as: we’ve seen you perform at least once, so we believe you have the ability to do it again and we’ll work with you to make that happen.

Edwards attitude is: do it once, then show me you can do it again, and again, and again, and then I’ll believe you can play.

Not speaking specifically to the Battle situation, but I actually prefer the DV approach to the Herm approach here.
Players are the vessels, coaches are the ones to fill the vessel.
Analogize this to sculpting
DV's approach - give me the best marble in the land and I'll sculpt 'David.'
Herm's? - sculpting's hard. that piece of rock over there looks pretty much like a man. Stick it in my museum.

Mr. Laz · 08-11-2006, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

His job isn't to win games. He's a GENERAL manager.

His job is to hire people to win games. And that assumes that winning games is even part of the company charter handed down by the owner. Given what we've seen over the last 20 years, I'm gonna guess that winning games isn't priority #1.

i really can't argue that ... as sad as it makes me

i guess i should of said "Peterson's job SHOULD BE to win games"

htismaqe · 08-11-2006, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Not speaking specifically to the Battle situation, but I actually prefer the DV approach to the Herm approach here.
Players are the vessels, coaches are the ones to fill the vessel.
Analogize this to sculpting
DV's approach - give me the best marble in the land and I'll sculpt 'David.'
Herm's? - sculpting's hard. that piece of rock over there looks pretty much like a man. Stick it in my museum.

I like that analogy, but I'd take it one step further.

DV's approach - give me the best CLAY in the land and I'll sculpt 'David'.

I prefer Herm's approach because clay is soft.

|Zach| · 08-11-2006, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Not speaking specifically to the Battle situation, but I actually prefer the DV approach to the Herm approach here.
Players are the vessels, coaches are the ones to fill the vessel.
Analogize this to sculpting
DV's approach - give me the best marble in the land and I'll sculpt 'David.'
Herm's? - sculpting's hard. that piece of rock over there looks pretty much like a man. Stick it in my museum.

heh, I like that...to continue it though...

DV made some David's....but when they were not David's he would keep them around and wait for them to look like David's and try to convince us they were David's...

Herm knows a shitty piece of art when he is working with one and he will throw it out for a new sculpture.

Halfcan · 08-11-2006, 11:23 AM

Barttee, Slavil, and Simms are next.

RedandGold · 08-11-2006, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Not speaking specifically to the Battle situation, but I actually prefer the DV approach to the Herm approach here.
Players are the vessels, coaches are the ones to fill the vessel.
Analogize this to sculpting
DV's approach - give me the best marble in the land and I'll sculpt 'David.'
Herm's? - sculpting's hard. that piece of rock over there looks pretty much like a man. Stick it in my museum.

Unfortunately, in terms of drafting talent, it was more like this:

DV - I saw a bit of light flash off of that turd. I will pick it up and love it and make it my own. It will turn into a diamond if I hug it enough.

Herm - I don't want any turds on my team

|Zach| · 08-11-2006, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halfcan

Barttee, Slavil, and Simms are next.

Simms? Hardly.

**dirk digler** · 08-11-2006, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZachKC

heh, I like that...to continue it though...

DV made some David's....but when they were not David's he would keep them around and wait for them to look like David's and try to convince us they were David's...

Herm knows a shitty piece of art when he is working with one and he will throw it out for a new sculpture.

I like that

**Baby Lee** · 08-11-2006, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

I like that analogy, but I'd take it one step further.

DV's approach - give me the best CLAY in the land and I'll sculpt 'David'.

I prefer Herm's approach because clay is soft.

But clay is fungible, and talent isn't.
This is the 00's, the old story of getting a bunch of average Joes to play with heart and grit and take on the world is now a relic of a bygone era.
You want a championship these days, you gotta do it like Phil Jackson, and assemble the guys with the most physical gifts you can fit under one roof, then go to work making them fit the mold of a consistent, successful team.
No coach on earth can make a player faster, taller, or stronger.
He CAN make him smarter and more disciplined.

Halfcan · 08-11-2006, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZachKC

Simms? Hardly.

Only because we have noone else. I have not heard much about this guy except he was running with the 2nd and 3rd unit.

**dirk digler** · 08-11-2006, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

But clay is fungible, and talent isn't.
This is the 00's, the old story of getting a bunch of average Joes to play with heart and grit and take on the world is now a relic of a bygone era.
You want a championship these days, you gotta do it like Phil Jackson, and assemble the guys with the most physical gifts you can fit under one roof, then go to work making them fit the mold of a consistent, successful team.
No coach on earth can make a player faster, taller, or stronger.
He CAN make him smarter and more disciplined.

I disagree especially with football. The NE Patriots weren't the most gifted teams, heck they had 2-3 white guys playing LB's.

**Baby Lee** · 08-11-2006, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedandGold

Unfortunately, in terms of drafting talent, it was more like this:

DV - I saw a bit of light flash off of that turd. I will pick it up and love it and make it my own. It will turn into a diamond if I hug it enough.

Herm - I don't want any turds on my team

MY point, and it's more of a theoretical on than a specific application, is that it's the coach's job to knock the clods of turd off and reveal the flash.
The level of TALENT is a variable that a coach cannot change.
Accepting less TALENT because it's easier to COACH just opens the door for another coach to amass more TALENT than you possess.
Then you end up with a team consisting of 52 Hicks and Brownings.

Messier · 08-11-2006, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halfcan

Only because we have noone else. I have not heard much about this guy except he was running with the 2nd and 3rd unit.

And the first. I think they (media) made that a bigger deal than it really was. Edwards said they are going to rotate the four DT's (Sims, Dalton, Reed and Edwards). I like that idea, but they all must stay healthy for it to work.

08-11-2006, 08:10 AM
Coogs In Search of a Life Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Northern Kansas Casino cash: $1044349	GRETZ: Battle Gone; More to Come I know everyone knows Battle is toast, Just thought I would post the article in a new thread. _____________________________________________________________ GRETZ: Battle Gone; More to Come Aug 11, 2006, 7:57:03 AM by Bob Gretz - FAQ RIVER FALLS, WI – It will not go down as one of the more earth-shaking personnel moves in recent Chiefs history. But the decision to release cornerback Julian Battle on Friday certainly caught the attention of his once fellow teammates. And there will be more “surprises” in the coming days and weeks as Herm Edwards begins to pull out the weeds in the Chiefs roster. “Just not good enough,” was Edwards’ reply when asked why Battle was released. “We did it now so he would have a better opportunity of catching on somewhere else.” A spot was needed with the signing of quarterback Jeff Smoker, but there were others on the roster that could have been sent packing at this time. The decision to waive Battle was done to send the message that Edwards has stressed from Day One in Kansas City: he doesn’t want the players to feel too comfortable about their status. Battle was one of those players who felt very comfortable. The Chiefs attempted to trade him on Friday. Actually, it’s the second time in the last few weeks they floated his name on the NFL grapevine hoping for a nibble. When they signed veteran cornerback Ty Law the week that training camp starters, Battle expressed his displeasure and asked to be traded. They found no takers then, and none this week, so he was released. The fact that Battle actually thought he was tradable was a symptom of his biggest problem: he thinks he’s good enough. Yet, the fourth-year pro has done nothing during his time with the Chiefs to show he could be a contributing player to the defense. His season last year was wiped out by an Achilles’ tendon injury in mini-camp. But he rehabbed and was at 100 percent through the off-season program and during two weeks of training camp. Battle’s biggest problem was his lack of consistency. There have been times since he joined the Chiefs when he showed flashes of ability. Physically, he might be as gifted a cornerback as Dale Carter. But the times when he displayed that ability were few and far between. He could not carry it from one play to another. Even in practice, he would handle coverage well on one play, then he would come back on the next play and completely forget about what he learned just 30 seconds earlier. Plus, he’s prone to penalties. Last Friday night in the practice against the Minnesota Vikings, on his first play of one-on-one pass coverage, he was flagged for holding by the NFL game officials who were working the affair. Edwards isn’t going to put up with that type of inconsistency. That’s one of the major reasons that cornerback Eric Warfield was sent packing in the off-season. This defense is built on a foundation of strong, consistent fundamentals. Battle never figured that out. His release is another defensive draft failure for the Chiefs. Battle was a third-round pick in 2003, a first-day choice and he joins recent first-day busts like DT Eric Downing (3rd-round, 2001), DT Eddie Freeman (2nd-round, 2002) and DT Junior Siavii (2nd-round, 2004), who remains missing in action in this training camp and could be the next weed pulled from the roster. When Dick Vermeil was the head coach, his approach to player evaluation could be characterized as: we’ve seen you perform at least once, so we believe you have the ability to do it again and we’ll work with you to make that happen. Edwards attitude is: do it once, then show me you can do it again, and again, and again, and then I’ll believe you can play. Julian Battle never came close to achieving that performance level. The opinions offered in this column do not necessarily reflect those of the Kansas City Chiefs.
Posts: 21,673

08-11-2006, 11:23 AM	#52
Halfcan In Search of a Life Join Date: Aug 2005 Casino cash: $7327995	Barttee, Slavil, and Simms are next.
Posts: 43,200