WTF: Sex Change at 12 years old - Page 4

Rooster · 01-29-2007, 02:58 PM

Unhappy as a boy, Kim became youngest ever transsexual at 12

By Bojan Pancevski in Vienna, Sunday Telegraph
Last Updated: 1:12am GMT 29/01/2007

A boy of 12 is believed to have become the world's youngest sex change patient after convincing doctors that he wanted to live the rest of his life as a female.

The boy - originally called Tim, but now known as Kim - has started to receive hormone treatment, in preparation for the operation that will eventually complete the sex change.

Tim was diagnosed as a transsexual two years ago, when doctors and psychiatrists concluded that his claims to be "in the wrong body" were so deeply felt that he required treatment. The therapy involves artificially arresting male puberty, with a series of potent hormone injections before the administration of female hormones to initiate the development of features such as breasts.

Now aged 14, and officially registered as a female, Kim looks like a typical girl of her age. She dresses in fashionable clothes, has long blonde hair and blue eyes and dreams of moving to Paris to become a fashion designer. Her parents, who initially assumed their son was going through a temporary phase, eventually grew accustomed to seeing him as a girl.

The family's full identity has not been made public. But Kim's father, known as Lutz P. – speaking to the German publications Der Spiegel and Stern – said that as a child, the boy liked to play with Barbie dolls, enjoyed wearing dresses and, from the age of two, insisted that he was a girl. "We saw Kim as a girl, but not as a problem. Our life was surprisingly normal."

Kim reacted badly to the first signs of puberty, he said. "At that stage we realised that she was terrified of growing facial hair and her voice breaking."

Kim's parents consulted psychiatrists across Germany. Some condemned their support of their child's desire to undergo a sex change, or suggested that Kim be kept under observation in a closed psychiatric ward. But others agreed that the child should receive therapy, because growing up to be a man would have damaged her personality.

Dr Bern Meyenburg, the head of a clinic for children and adolescents with identity disturbances at Frankfurt University, concluded that the child was serious. He wrote in his diagnosis: "Kim is a mentally well-developed child who appears happy and balanced. There is no doubt of the determined wish, that was already detectable since early childhood. It would have been very wrong to let Kim grow up to be a man. It is rare to have such a clear-cut case."

Kim is reportedly fully accepted by her fellow school pupils and teachers. The costs of the procedure are being covered by health insurance, as the condition qualifies as an illness.

Dr Achim Wuesthof, an endocrinologist specialising in children and adolescents, who is treating the teenager at a clinic in Hamburg, said the procedure had been a success so far. Speaking to The Sunday Telegraph, he said that even though under-16s were not permitted to undergo a sex change in other countries, he and his colleagues felt that in this case it had been best to start earlier. He said: "To the best of my knowledge, Kim is the youngest sex change patient in the world. According to German law, two independent psychiatrists must confirm that the child is indeed transsexual and approve the sex change. Once that has been done, it is best to start as early as possible.

"Transsexuals experience the onset of puberty, and the physical changes it brings, as a serious trauma. But there is a general lack of empathy with cases like Kim's, mostly because people know little about the condition. Imagine a man that suddenly starts growing breasts or a woman that starts growing a beard against their will – that is how Kim and people like her experience puberty.

"They are not freaks, nor do they suffer mental illness. They are simply trapped in the wrong bodies. That is why it is best to help them as early as possible and reduce the trauma for them and their families."

The problem that Dr Meyenburg and other psychiatrists faced was distinguishing a true transsexual personality from a temporary gender identity crisis. Dr Meyenburg quoted an example of a 15-year-old girl who wanted to change her sex, but who revealed during counselling that she had suffered brutal sexual abuse by her father – a case for psychological, rather than hormonal therapy.

Should Kim change her mind before the surgery, the procedure could be reversed. Doctors admit that the treatment involves a risk, however, and that its effects on children as young as Kim are not fully understood.

For legal reasons, the final stage – cosmetic surgery to remove the male genitalia – cannot take place until Kim is 18. Britain's youngest transsexual is Angel Paris-Jordan, who was granted an operation on the NHS at the age of 17.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../28/wkim28.xml

crazycoffey · 01-30-2007, 01:07 PM

I had two by the time I was 12.

**J Diddy** · 01-30-2007, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazycoffey

I had two by the time I was 12.

couldn't make up your mind, eh?

BIG_DADDY · 01-30-2007, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StcChief

Wouldn't castration be just as successful?

The Europeifican of Kalifornia....

I'll tell you Cali gets a bad rap. SF and LA just kill us with the amount of left of Stalin liberals they have there. I am in the Silicon Valley where I would say the majority are conservative. They would never even attempt that type of legislation in the mass majority of California.

Ultra Peanut · 01-30-2007, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG_DADDY

So if someone's core being is so ****ing upset about having a penis they should get their ass up early every day for a few years and save the money they need to get the operation.

Waking up early every day is definitely enough to give an average person enough income to provide the extra $20,000+ it would require. Nobody ever struggles to make ends meet, or anything. And if they do, **** 'em. They're obviously just lazy.

This is, of course, without going into the high cost of hormones, which aren't covered under most insurance plans here in the good ol' US of A.

Quote:

People making their own personal issues everyone else's problem is BS. In SF the tax payers have to pay for sex changes. That is wrong any way you look at it. MOF it's completely ****ing assinine.

Well, I guess can't argue with that, then. You did use bold text, after all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by StcChief

Wouldn't castration be just as successful?

It's expert insight like this that makes me realize how silly I am for thinking it actually requires the slightest bit of knowledge about something to comment on it.

StcChief · 01-30-2007, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG_DADDY

I'll tell you Cali gets a bad rap. SF and LA just kill us with the amount of left of Stalin liberals they have there. I am in the Silicon Valley where I would say the majority are conservative. They would never even attempt that type of legislation in the mass majority of California.

Yeah. The "blue" counties think they own the States of Cali,Ill,Mass,NY.Wash,Ore.....

Ask the out-staters (country folks) or down-staters (in Ill) ....

They in general would just as soon divorce the city from their state.

BIG_DADDY · 01-30-2007, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultra Peanut

Letting kids take control of their gender identities at an early age, and not looking down upon or scorning them for doing so, would quite literally save many, many lives.

I don't care what people do as long as I don't have to pay for it. Letting kids choose their sex is insanity IMO though. I would never let my kid do that.

Ultra Peanut · 01-30-2007, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG_DADDY

I don't care what people do as long as I don't have to pay for it. Letting kids choose their sex is insanity IMO though. I would never let my kid do that.

Far better for them to be miserable or even kill themselves because they feel it's their only option rather than to let them assert some degree of control over the direction of their entire lives!

**J Diddy** · 01-30-2007, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultra Peanut

Waking up early every day is definitely enough to give an average person enough income to provide the extra $20,000+ it would require. Nobody ever struggles to make ends meet, or anything. And if they do, **** 'em. They're obviously just lazy.

This is, of course, without going into the high cost of hormones, which aren't covered under most insurance plans here in the good ol' US of A.

Well, I guess can't argue with that, then. You did use bold text, after all.

It's expert insight like this that makes me realize how silly I am for thinking it actually requires the slightest bit of knowledge about something to comment on it.

When you start paying for my problems, I'll start paying for yours.

Taco John · 01-30-2007, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boogblaster

Over-payment for services, medical or other is a disease in this country..as far as some 12 year old kid getting his balls whacked is fricking sick ....

Actually, the article says he's only getting hormone treatment at this point. He'll have the choice to get the operation performed when he's 18.

**RNR** · 01-30-2007, 02:03 PM

Well debate aside I am glad it is not my son!

**Mr. Kotter** · 01-30-2007, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultra Peanut

The earlier, the better. The thing that's impossible for those who haven't experienced it to realize is that, in a lot of cases, you already know exactly what you want. The problem is, unless you're completely socially reeruned, you've noticed all of the signals saying how horrible and wrong it is for you to feel the way you feel for your entire life up to that point, making it extremely difficult to do anything other than bottle up and be miserable.

Do you people think someone just wakes up one day and says, "Hurrrr, I'd love to be a part of an irrationally feared group that people know next to nothing about! The high suicide rates are a bonus!"

Life is enough of a bitch without that sort of burden, and the quicker you cast it off, the better you are. Until society progresses to the point where kids can feel open about it and at least delay puberty until they're "sure," countless people will continue to suffer and many will kill themselves simply because it looks like a better alternative than either living a complete lie and never being able to be honest with anyone, or reaching the point where you're able to be open too late and being unable to fit into the role you would have found yourself comfortably fitting into if the situation had been different (sure, some people are able to transition at later ages than others; it's a matter of pure chance, basically, but the unlucky ones who look like linebackers are pretty much ****ed when it comes to just blending in).

Letting kids take control of their gender identities at an early age, and not looking down upon or scorning them for doing so, would quite literally save many, many lives.

But saving lives is less important than making sure a bunch of woefully uninformed others don't feel icky about it, I guess.

So. What happens at the age of 25, if she changes her mind....and she realizes she fugged up, and she really is a he?

I mean, does society get to pay for an operation to change her back also?

What then, Dr. Freud?

Ultra Peanut · 01-30-2007, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter

So. What happens at the age of 25, if she changes her mind....and she realizes she fugged up, and she really is a he?

Do you often have trouble figuring out which gender you identify with?

And Freud? Seriously? What's next, the name of some random Bulgarian television star?

**Mr. Kotter** · 01-30-2007, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultra Peanut

Do you often have trouble figuring out which gender you identify with?

No, but then....I'm normal.

Are you saying that is not possible, even likely, given the psychological profile of these kids?

Ms. Marin Yonchev

Ultra Peanut · 01-30-2007, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter

No, but then....I'm normal.

Are you saying that is not possible, even likely, given the psychological profile of these kids?

So if the psychological profile is, "I'm this. I know I'm this."

But society says, "You're that. I know you're that."

Then clearly, the stupid sideshow freak is confused.

**Mr. Kotter** · 01-30-2007, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultra Peanut

So if the psychological profile is, "I'm this. I know I'm this."

But society says, "You're that. I know you're that."

Then clearly, the stupid sideshow freak is confused.

FTR, I'm not invoking the "stupid sideshow freak" label....nor would I.

But after 15 years, at a high school of 2,000 kids.....I've seen a handful come through my classes over the years. A couple would fit the profile...I'm hypothesizing.

Know what I mean, Ms. Marin Yonchev?

01-29-2007, 02:58 PM
Rooster Draft a QB Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: JoCo Casino cash: $9961689	WTF: Sex Change at 12 years old Unhappy as a boy, Kim became youngest ever transsexual at 12 By Bojan Pancevski in Vienna, Sunday Telegraph Last Updated: 1:12am GMT 29/01/2007 A boy of 12 is believed to have become the world's youngest sex change patient after convincing doctors that he wanted to live the rest of his life as a female. The boy - originally called Tim, but now known as Kim - has started to receive hormone treatment, in preparation for the operation that will eventually complete the sex change. Tim was diagnosed as a transsexual two years ago, when doctors and psychiatrists concluded that his claims to be "in the wrong body" were so deeply felt that he required treatment. The therapy involves artificially arresting male puberty, with a series of potent hormone injections before the administration of female hormones to initiate the development of features such as breasts. Now aged 14, and officially registered as a female, Kim looks like a typical girl of her age. She dresses in fashionable clothes, has long blonde hair and blue eyes and dreams of moving to Paris to become a fashion designer. Her parents, who initially assumed their son was going through a temporary phase, eventually grew accustomed to seeing him as a girl. The family's full identity has not been made public. But Kim's father, known as Lutz P. – speaking to the German publications Der Spiegel and Stern – said that as a child, the boy liked to play with Barbie dolls, enjoyed wearing dresses and, from the age of two, insisted that he was a girl. "We saw Kim as a girl, but not as a problem. Our life was surprisingly normal." Kim reacted badly to the first signs of puberty, he said. "At that stage we realised that she was terrified of growing facial hair and her voice breaking." Kim's parents consulted psychiatrists across Germany. Some condemned their support of their child's desire to undergo a sex change, or suggested that Kim be kept under observation in a closed psychiatric ward. But others agreed that the child should receive therapy, because growing up to be a man would have damaged her personality. Dr Bern Meyenburg, the head of a clinic for children and adolescents with identity disturbances at Frankfurt University, concluded that the child was serious. He wrote in his diagnosis: "Kim is a mentally well-developed child who appears happy and balanced. There is no doubt of the determined wish, that was already detectable since early childhood. It would have been very wrong to let Kim grow up to be a man. It is rare to have such a clear-cut case." Kim is reportedly fully accepted by her fellow school pupils and teachers. The costs of the procedure are being covered by health insurance, as the condition qualifies as an illness. Dr Achim Wuesthof, an endocrinologist specialising in children and adolescents, who is treating the teenager at a clinic in Hamburg, said the procedure had been a success so far. Speaking to The Sunday Telegraph, he said that even though under-16s were not permitted to undergo a sex change in other countries, he and his colleagues felt that in this case it had been best to start earlier. He said: "To the best of my knowledge, Kim is the youngest sex change patient in the world. According to German law, two independent psychiatrists must confirm that the child is indeed transsexual and approve the sex change. Once that has been done, it is best to start as early as possible. "Transsexuals experience the onset of puberty, and the physical changes it brings, as a serious trauma. But there is a general lack of empathy with cases like Kim's, mostly because people know little about the condition. Imagine a man that suddenly starts growing breasts or a woman that starts growing a beard against their will – that is how Kim and people like her experience puberty. "They are not freaks, nor do they suffer mental illness. They are simply trapped in the wrong bodies. That is why it is best to help them as early as possible and reduce the trauma for them and their families." The problem that Dr Meyenburg and other psychiatrists faced was distinguishing a true transsexual personality from a temporary gender identity crisis. Dr Meyenburg quoted an example of a 15-year-old girl who wanted to change her sex, but who revealed during counselling that she had suffered brutal sexual abuse by her father – a case for psychological, rather than hormonal therapy. Should Kim change her mind before the surgery, the procedure could be reversed. Doctors admit that the treatment involves a risk, however, and that its effects on children as young as Kim are not fully understood. For legal reasons, the final stage – cosmetic surgery to remove the male genitalia – cannot take place until Kim is 18. Britain's youngest transsexual is Angel Paris-Jordan, who was granted an operation on the NHS at the age of 17. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../28/wkim28.xml
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01-30-2007, 01:07 PM	#46
crazycoffey .......... Join Date: Dec 2006 Casino cash: $5087901	I had two by the time I was 12.
Posts: 28,332

01-30-2007, 02:03 PM	#55
RNR America is great assholes~ Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: In some people's mind~ Casino cash: $10027990	Well debate aside I am glad it is not my son! __________________ The Trump campaign and Black Lives Matter movement are perfect for each other. Both sides filled with easily led and angry nitwits convinced they are victims~
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