Sizing up the DT's - Page 4

Mecca · 01-22-2008, 08:16 PM

January 22, 2008

If you have ever watched the National Geographic Channel, you would know that the grizzly bear is a fearsome creature. When the grizzly bear stands on its hind legs, you know you are in trouble but don’t try to run because the grizzly bear is violently quick, running at an alarming 35 miles per hour.

In the 2008 draft, there are two defensive tackles that resemble grizzly bears. Louisiana State’s Glenn Dorsey and Southern Cal’s Sedrick Ellis are two of the most feared DTs to come out in the same year since 1994 when Dan Wilkinson and Bryant Young both went within the first seven selections of the NFL Draft.

One on One

When we break down the tape, both Dorsey and Ellis are fierce linemen with more physical tools than any highly regarded defensive tackle since Tommie Harris in 2004. We won’t get a confirmed height and weight for Glenn Dorsey until the NFL Combine, but he is reportedly 6’2”, 303 lbs. At the Senior Bowl, Sedrick Ellis sized in at 6’0”, 308 lbs.

LSU’s Glenn Dorsey recorded 7 sacks, 12.5 tackles for a loss, and 69 total tackles as a senior in 2007. He also forced 1 fumble, hurried the quarterback 3 times, and broke up 3 passes. Dorsey may have the ideal frame for a defensive tackle but his quickness is similar to a defensive end’s. He does well as a pass rusher and usually was double teamed in 2007. Despite playing hurt most of 2007, Dorsey managed to change the momentum of games, especially against South Carolina. Dorsey’s arm length doesn’t wow scouts but the ability to dominate in one-on-one situations and swallow any gap around him makes up for what he lacks physically.

The Trojans have had a hidden gem in Sedrick Ellis for some time but he didn’t begin to garnish national attention until his senior year. In 2007, Ellis filled up his stat sheet with 8.5 sacks, 12.5 tackles for a loss and 58 total tackles. He also had 1 quarterback hurry and 7 passes broken up. Ellis isn’t as big height-wise as scouts like, but his extraterrestrial strength and speed makes him a highly regarded prospect. He is very instinctive and leads with a very quick first step. Watching Ellis is like watching a fundamental video on how to shed blocks. He possesses sound techniques and has top-notch intangibles. Like Dorsey, Ellis has had injury problems, breaking his ankle in 2003 and injuring his left knee in 2006. When it comes to disrupting the fluidity on offense for opponents, there is not one prospect in this draft that can do that like Sedrick Ellis.

Natural Habitat

Unlike Ellis, Glenn Dorsey would be better suited for just the 4-3 defensive scheme. As you can see, Ellis could play in both the 3-4 and 4-3. Dorsey is solid in shedding blockers but isn’t the nose tackle prospect Haloti Ngata was a couple of years’ back. Meanwhile, Sedrick Ellis is a hog at both positions, relinquishing the power that the center and guards may have on him and dominating the trenches.

While you may be confused and start to wonder, how is Dorsey more highly regarded than Ellis? He simply isn’t. As you read this, there are scouts and pro personnel breaking down film trying to decipher who is better suited for what and who has shown more weakness than the other. At the end of the day, it may be a push. Dorsey has a quicker first step and may use his hands better than Ellis but Ellis is quicker to dominate a double-team than Dorsey. Both DTs have played through injuries during their time in school and both have anchored a BCS defense.

Conclusion

If there were any fair comparison’s to current NFL DTs, I would put Glenn Dorsey in the Kevin Williams category and place Sedrick Ellis in the Albert Haynesworth category. In all honesty though, there are no fair comparisons. Both have the upside as the aforementioned Pro Bowler’s. Both have the talent and value to award them with bank-breaking rookie contracts. The only difference between the two is that depending on defensive scheme, one will get drafted ahead of the other.

Don’t look for the Miami Dolphins to draft Glenn Dorsey if they put in place a 3-4 scheme. Instead, look for them to address another need or grab a defensive end. On the other hand, Dorsey would fit in well with the St. Louis Rams (to replace La’Roi Glover). Sedrick Ellis meanwhile would be a great fit for the Miami Dolphins but his stock is not quite that up that high yet. Ellis plays with a Warren Sapp-like mean streak and could fit in well with Oakland. Regardless of this speculation, both Dorsey and Ellis will be top 8 eight selections come April.

So who is the better prospect? Flip a coin -- you can’t be wrong with heads or tails. This is the perfect win-win scenario for a franchise picking early in the draft that needs to address the middle of their defensive line.

crazycoffey · 01-22-2008, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

You are on a football message board telling me I provide nothing when you don't even talk about football....that makes sense.

Say all you want but I bet people will have some respect for my views on the draft just due to my history with it.

I never said you provided nothing, so don't put words out there that don't exist. I said you are overly pessimistic and you beat a point to death. No one can ever disagree with you. No, the information you provide has some value.

xbarretx · 01-22-2008, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Right now the Chiefs value everything...have you seen this team?

sorry Mecca i gotta call BS... have you seen our punter? compared to other members of this team Colquitts a "golden god"

Deberg_1990 · 01-22-2008, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Why should I take a OT 5th when I don't personally believe he is that great when I can take one of the 2 dominant DT prospects and still get a damn good OT prospect that isn't that much worse than Long with my 2nd pick..

The dropoff from Ellis to the 2nd round DT's is much greater than the dropoff from Long to those next OT's.

I'd rather get 2 players than 1......people say it starts at the lines so um isn't it better to have 2 good players than 1?

Agreed. Why do Chiefs fans act as if this team is only a player or two away??

Ebolapox · 01-22-2008, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xbarretx

sorry Mecca i gotta call BS... have you seen our punter? compared to other members of this team Colquitts a "golden god"

rep for the almost famous reference.

xbarretx · 01-22-2008, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

I'd tell you in a draft like this a DL is more valuable than an OL because the OL side is much deeper..after Dorsey and Ellis the DTs drop off huge.

QFT

and if anoyone disagrees then they need to attend football 101.

Mecca · 01-22-2008, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyCoffey

I never said you provided nothing, so don't put words out there that don't exist. I said you are overly pessimistic and you beat a point to death. No one can ever disagree with you. No, the information you provide has some value.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyCoffey

but your posts are meaningless, you twit.

xbarretx · 01-22-2008, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H5N1

rep for the almost famous reference.

thanks man

i put the pic in there b/c i was afraid no one would get the "golden god" quote

crazycoffey · 01-22-2008, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Why should I take a OT 5th when I don't personally believe he is that great when I can take one of the 2 dominant DT prospects and still get a damn good OT prospect that isn't that much worse than Long with my 2nd pick..

The dropoff from Ellis to the 2nd round DT's is much greater than the dropoff from Long to those next OT's.

I'd rather get 2 players than 1......people say it starts at the lines so um isn't it better to have 2 good players than 1?

He's being compared to Joe freakin Thomas, it's not like he's a guaranteed bust. DT isn't our strongest position, so I understand where you're going, but it's by far not on our high priority lists of needs, if we draft a DT at all, I'll be surprised, personally.

Mecca · 01-22-2008, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990

Agreed. Why do Chiefs fans act as if this team is only a player or two away??

I know I don't get it. It's like they think this team is going to compete for the playoffs next year. If this team goes out and gets players to go 8-8 next year because Clark Hunt wants to compete that is more bad than good for our future...

Hell I'd rather be 4-12 again and doing it the right way than do that.

Mecca · 01-22-2008, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyCoffey

He's being compared to Joe freakin Thomas, it's not like he's a guaranteed bust. DT isn't our strongest position, so I understand where you're going, but it's by far not on our high priority lists of needs, if we draft a DT at all, I'll be surprised, personally.

He's not as good as Thomas, that guy's on crack.

2 is better than 1....DT is a major need for this team. When you want to play cover 2 you need a dominant DT. Sapp is why Tampa's defense was so damn dominant.

Also if Ellis is all he should be Allen continues to play and Hali plays like he should the front alone makes the rest of the defense better. You can get away with a crap secondary if your front 4 dominates.

crazycoffey · 01-22-2008, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyCoffey
I never said you provided nothing, so don't put words out there that don't exist. I said you are overly pessimistic and you beat a point to death. No one can ever disagree with you. No, the information you provide has some value.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyCoffey
but your posts are meaningless, you twit.

I stand by my statement, so?
I still didn't say you provided nothing, you said I would enjoy your posts more if they were meaningless drivel, like most of my posts are. I'm simply stating a realistic point of view and one that I think is quite obvious; ALL OUR POSTS ARE MEANINGLESS. Really, did you think we were making a difference here?

chiefs1111 · 01-22-2008, 09:54 PM

i would love to see Ellis here. I also like dorsey,but the one thing that worries me about him though is he was banged up quite a bit this year,if healthly i wouldnt mind him either.

xbarretx · 01-22-2008, 09:55 PM

well its beer 30 for me guys so ill make one last comment and avoid the drama.

Mecca, i like the tune this threads singing. i hope that Herm edwards and Bill Kuharich secretly visit planet and take the hint/advice.

Mecca · 01-22-2008, 09:56 PM

Either one of those DT's would be a massive upgrade for this team and then you could actually speak like we do have a young up and coming defense.

crazycoffey · 01-22-2008, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

He's not as good as Thomas, that guy's on crack.

2 is better than 1....DT is a major need for this team. When you want to play cover 2 you need a dominant DT. Sapp is why Tampa's defense was so damn dominant.

Also if Ellis is all he should be Allen continues to play and Hali plays like he should the front alone makes the rest of the defense better. You can get away with a crap secondary if your front 4 dominates.

DT is soooo not a major need. We have time/money invested in two young guys that played a fair amount of time as rookies, you want to dismiss that time already, because they didn't play like warren sapp? Additionally, Boone is a good DT and we got decent depth to go along with the rookies in Reed and Edwards.

no, DT is not a major need...
IMO

01-22-2008, 08:16 PM
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $1257050	Sizing up the DT's January 22, 2008 If you have ever watched the National Geographic Channel, you would know that the grizzly bear is a fearsome creature. When the grizzly bear stands on its hind legs, you know you are in trouble but don’t try to run because the grizzly bear is violently quick, running at an alarming 35 miles per hour. In the 2008 draft, there are two defensive tackles that resemble grizzly bears. Louisiana State’s Glenn Dorsey and Southern Cal’s Sedrick Ellis are two of the most feared DTs to come out in the same year since 1994 when Dan Wilkinson and Bryant Young both went within the first seven selections of the NFL Draft. One on One When we break down the tape, both Dorsey and Ellis are fierce linemen with more physical tools than any highly regarded defensive tackle since Tommie Harris in 2004. We won’t get a confirmed height and weight for Glenn Dorsey until the NFL Combine, but he is reportedly 6’2”, 303 lbs. At the Senior Bowl, Sedrick Ellis sized in at 6’0”, 308 lbs. LSU’s Glenn Dorsey recorded 7 sacks, 12.5 tackles for a loss, and 69 total tackles as a senior in 2007. He also forced 1 fumble, hurried the quarterback 3 times, and broke up 3 passes. Dorsey may have the ideal frame for a defensive tackle but his quickness is similar to a defensive end’s. He does well as a pass rusher and usually was double teamed in 2007. Despite playing hurt most of 2007, Dorsey managed to change the momentum of games, especially against South Carolina. Dorsey’s arm length doesn’t wow scouts but the ability to dominate in one-on-one situations and swallow any gap around him makes up for what he lacks physically. The Trojans have had a hidden gem in Sedrick Ellis for some time but he didn’t begin to garnish national attention until his senior year. In 2007, Ellis filled up his stat sheet with 8.5 sacks, 12.5 tackles for a loss and 58 total tackles. He also had 1 quarterback hurry and 7 passes broken up. Ellis isn’t as big height-wise as scouts like, but his extraterrestrial strength and speed makes him a highly regarded prospect. He is very instinctive and leads with a very quick first step. Watching Ellis is like watching a fundamental video on how to shed blocks. He possesses sound techniques and has top-notch intangibles. Like Dorsey, Ellis has had injury problems, breaking his ankle in 2003 and injuring his left knee in 2006. When it comes to disrupting the fluidity on offense for opponents, there is not one prospect in this draft that can do that like Sedrick Ellis. Natural Habitat Unlike Ellis, Glenn Dorsey would be better suited for just the 4-3 defensive scheme. As you can see, Ellis could play in both the 3-4 and 4-3. Dorsey is solid in shedding blockers but isn’t the nose tackle prospect Haloti Ngata was a couple of years’ back. Meanwhile, Sedrick Ellis is a hog at both positions, relinquishing the power that the center and guards may have on him and dominating the trenches. While you may be confused and start to wonder, how is Dorsey more highly regarded than Ellis? He simply isn’t. As you read this, there are scouts and pro personnel breaking down film trying to decipher who is better suited for what and who has shown more weakness than the other. At the end of the day, it may be a push. Dorsey has a quicker first step and may use his hands better than Ellis but Ellis is quicker to dominate a double-team than Dorsey. Both DTs have played through injuries during their time in school and both have anchored a BCS defense. Conclusion If there were any fair comparison’s to current NFL DTs, I would put Glenn Dorsey in the Kevin Williams category and place Sedrick Ellis in the Albert Haynesworth category. In all honesty though, there are no fair comparisons. Both have the upside as the aforementioned Pro Bowler’s. Both have the talent and value to award them with bank-breaking rookie contracts. The only difference between the two is that depending on defensive scheme, one will get drafted ahead of the other. Don’t look for the Miami Dolphins to draft Glenn Dorsey if they put in place a 3-4 scheme. Instead, look for them to address another need or grab a defensive end. On the other hand, Dorsey would fit in well with the St. Louis Rams (to replace La’Roi Glover). Sedrick Ellis meanwhile would be a great fit for the Miami Dolphins but his stock is not quite that up that high yet. Ellis plays with a Warren Sapp-like mean streak and could fit in well with Oakland. Regardless of this speculation, both Dorsey and Ellis will be top 8 eight selections come April. So who is the better prospect? Flip a coin -- you can’t be wrong with heads or tails. This is the perfect win-win scenario for a franchise picking early in the draft that needs to address the middle of their defensive line.
Posts: 112,387

01-22-2008, 09:54 PM	#57
chiefs1111 In Search of a Life Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Parts Unknown Casino cash: $63166	i would love to see Ellis here. I also like dorsey,but the one thing that worries me about him though is he was banged up quite a bit this year,if healthly i wouldnt mind him either.
Posts: 21,087

01-22-2008, 09:55 PM	#58
xbarretx The Freeze! Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Prosper, TX (DFW) Casino cash: $9765000	well its beer 30 for me guys so ill make one last comment and avoid the drama. Mecca, i like the tune this threads singing. i hope that Herm edwards and Bill Kuharich secretly visit planet and take the hint/advice. __________________ p.s. - VonneMarie is ALL woman!
Posts: 2,860

01-22-2008, 09:56 PM	#59
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $1257050	Either one of those DT's would be a massive upgrade for this team and then you could actually speak like we do have a young up and coming defense.
Posts: 112,387