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Old 03-19-2008, 08:00 AM  
Amnorix Amnorix is offline
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What the Hell is a "System QB" and why is it bad to be one?
I just saw this in another thread (Ryan's Pro Day workout at BC) and it brought to mind why this phrase gets tossed around all the time as some kind of insult. As I understand it, "He's just a system QB" is generally thrown out there to say that a QB looks better than he really is, presumably because the "system" that he is in MAKES him look better. In other words, it's not the QB that is good/great, it's the system.

This entire concept makes NO sense to me. EVERY QB, especially in the NFL, plays in a fantastically complicated offensive "system" that is DESIGNED to make him look good. Coaches and players spend hundreds of hours every week (combined) analyzing weaknesses in the opposing defense and trying to adapt their "system" and plays to take advantage of the weaknesses.

The only way this makes any sense is to suggest that a system QB isn't as good as a "non-system" QB in the sense that when the play breaks down, the QB can't improvise. In other words, he's not a Favre or Elway.

The severe problem with this statement is that there are very, very few Favre's or Elways. If by "system QB" you mean that he's not a highly athletic runner who also has a shotgun, accurate arm and is one of the top 10 QBs in history, then that's no insult at all. It applies to 99.9% of the quarterbacks in NFL history.

I note, also, that if this is what you mean by "system QB", then Marino, Brady, Manning, Fouts, and god-knows how many other awesome QBs who couldn't run well are also "just system QBs" and therefore subject to insult.

I don't get it. Am I missing something?

I honestly would like to see this phrase disappear from NFL-fan lexicon. It's worthless as a statement.
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Old 03-19-2008, 03:09 PM   #46
Amnorix Amnorix is offline
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Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare View Post
Look at the top 5 of all-time the onlyone that wasn't in the right situation was John Elway that man had shit around him including coaches for most of his career that man literally took his teams on his back to the SB when he was young.
So....in your mind a System QB is any QB not named what -- Montana, Elway, Unitas, Favre, Marino and Manning (or Brady), or some combination like that.

What's the point of having a specific phrase that means "not among the top 5 NFL QBs in history"?

And, to push it further -- in your mind Michael Vick was a "system QB" I guess.

I don't get it.
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Old 03-19-2008, 03:13 PM   #47
Tribal Warfare Tribal Warfare is offline
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Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
.

I don't get it.


Precisely, 98% being successful in the NFL is being in right situation at the right time, and John Elway for top 5 picks concerning talent is the benchmark and anything less is asking for trouble.
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Old 03-19-2008, 06:04 PM   #48
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I've always defined system QBs as guys who put up ridiculous stats in a wide-open, pass-happy system but are easily replaceable by other guys that can put up the same stats. Thus, they get undeserved hype based on their stats, and most of the time they underperform in an NFL pro offense.

System QBs that come to mind right now are Hawaii QBs (Colt Brennan, Timmy Chang), Tedford QBs (Kyle Boller, Aaron Rodgers, Joey Harrington, Akili Smith), and Spurrier QBs (Rex Grossman, Danny Wuerffel).
You may also add any QB who's played at Texas Tech.
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Old 03-19-2008, 06:13 PM   #49
the Talking Can the Talking Can is offline
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Brock is on target.

People use "system QB" to mean that a QB's talent can only be exploited by one particular system.

Great QBs can generally be imagined to succeed in any system, or when systems break down.

And anyone who thinks that Montana could only thrive in a west coast system....well, ditto brock again: "horse shit"

that's as dumb as gochiefs claiming that Chris Carter couldn't separate from CBs....
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Old 03-19-2008, 06:30 PM   #50
Tribal Warfare Tribal Warfare is offline
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Originally Posted by the Talking Can View Post
Brock is on target.

People use "system QB" to mean that a QB's talent can only be exploited by one particular system.

Great QBs can generally be imagined to succeed in any system, or when systems break down.

And anyone who thinks that Montana could only thrive in a west coast system....well, ditto brock again: "horse shit"

that's as dumb as gochiefs claiming that Chris Carter couldn't separate from CBs....
back to the point of the arguement unless one is talking about an all-world talent like John Elway which it doesn't matter what situation he's in then I'd pass on the guy who has to be in the right situation and right system. Ryan can be good, but he'll need help
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Old 03-19-2008, 06:33 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the Talking Can View Post
Brock is on target.

People use "system QB" to mean that a QB's talent can only be exploited by one particular system.

Great QBs can generally be imagined to succeed in any system, or when systems break down.

And anyone who thinks that Montana could only thrive in a west coast system....well, ditto brock again: "horse shit"

that's as dumb as gochiefs claiming that Chris Carter couldn't separate from CBs....
So you feel that Montana would have taken the same Denver teams to the SB that Elway did?
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Old 03-19-2008, 06:46 PM   #52
the Talking Can the Talking Can is offline
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Originally Posted by vailpass View Post
So you feel that Montana would have taken the same Denver teams to the SB that Elway did?
yes, Montana would have still been a great QB if he played for Shanahan instead of Walsh...

anyone who doesn't think so is embarrassingly dumb...
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Old 03-19-2008, 06:49 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by vailpass View Post
So you feel that Montana would have taken the same Denver teams to the SB that Elway did?
no .... but they wouldn't of built the team the same if it was montana instead of Elway.


just like most other nfl players need to be used in schemes that fit their talents.
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Old 03-19-2008, 06:55 PM   #54
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Kliff Kingsberry put up huge numbers in Texas Tech's System....couldn't hack it.

Spread the defense out with 4-5 quick wrs and throw slants and fly patterns.....big numbers, but they often can't make the nfl throws.....the 15 yard outs across the field etc.
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Old 03-19-2008, 07:02 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by vailpass View Post
So you feel that Montana would have taken the same Denver teams to the SB that Elway did?
Probably would have won more.
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Old 03-19-2008, 07:31 PM   #56
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IMHO there's no such thing as a "system QB" in the NFL. It's a meaningless phrase. Without a good system, no QB in the NFL is any good.
I don't think of a system QB as worthless outside of a system, like others... I think of it when looking at stats and wondering "is this guy that good or could anyone throw for 4000 yards in that offense?"

I think it's possible to have a system QB in the NFL, it's just that the systems are so close to being the same, NFL teams don't waste the time on them unless they are a Vick-like athlete or they're desperate.

Enter Kurt Warner (uh, the desperate part). He would have been a backup for a while and mediocre at best in the NFL if the Rams weren't desperate and he didn't happen to step into Martz's system. It wasn't the quarterback, it was the system. Anyone can throw for 4000 yards in the system, and Kurt Warner hasn't done a whole lot outside of it.
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Old 03-19-2008, 07:38 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by the Talking Can View Post
Brock is on target.

People use "system QB" to mean that a QB's talent can only be exploited by one particular system.

Great QBs can generally be imagined to succeed in any system, or when systems break down.

And anyone who thinks that Montana could only thrive in a west coast system....well, ditto brock again: "horse shit"

that's as dumb as gochiefs claiming that Chris Carter couldn't separate from CBs....
I would agree somewhat...Montana succeeded with the Chiefs despite Marty. That's the sign of a great QB.

Green was always said to be a system QB...not so great with Wash, but good with KC. A system could also be a QB behind a great line and helped by a super RB.
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Old 03-19-2008, 08:40 PM   #58
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Probably would have won more.

Stop dude,you're killing me. Little Joe wouldn't have lasted 2 seasons.
You either have no idea what the Elway years pre-Shanny looked like or are just being silly.
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Old 03-19-2008, 08:41 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by the Talking Can View Post
yes, Montana would have still been a great QB if he played for Shanahan instead of Walsh...

anyone who doesn't think so is embarrassingly dumb...
I wasn't talking about the Shanny teams. Are you familiar with the teams Elway carried to the SB pre-Shanny?
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Old 03-19-2008, 10:19 PM   #60
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I wasn't talking about the Shanny teams. Are you familiar with the teams Elway carried to the SB pre-Shanny?
John Elway brought an unmatched ability to improvise and carried some pretty mediocre teams to the SB.

He also overcame handcuffing by Dan Reeves.

Still, Montana brought that leadership and quiet confidence.

I don't know that he could have taken the Donks to those 3 pre-rat SBs, but I wouldn't bet against him.
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