Chiefs Revisiting the Jared Allen Trade - Page 4

**Mr. Flopnuts** · 02-13-2010, 04:20 PM

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post...ed-allen-trade

Bill Williamson

The image of a purple-clad Jared Allen celebrating over fallen quarterbacks can’t be fun for Kansas City Chiefs fans. (NFC North blogger Kevin Seifert took a look at the Allen deal from the Vikings' perspective.)

They were used to seeing the mulleted one celebrating sacks as a Chief. Since Allen was traded to the Minnesota Vikings in 2008, the Chiefs have been listless on defense.

But two seasons into the blockbuster trade, it is not necessarily fair to say Kansas City was a loser in the trade.

Kansas City sent Allen and a sixth-round draft pick in 2008 for the No. 17 overall pick, two third-round picks and a sixth-round pick. Kansas City turned the picks into tackle Branden Albert, running back Jamaal Charles, safety DaJuan Morgan and sixth-round pick Kevin Robinson. The Vikings turned the Chiefs’ sixth-round pick into center John Sullivan.

“Kansas City really can’t worry about what Allen is doing in Minnesota and that Sullivan is a starter,” Matt Williamson of Scouts Inc. said. “The Chiefs knew Allen was going to be good in Minnesota. But they didn’t want to pay him so they got very good value. That’s why the trade was good. It was a good trade because the value was good. Let’s see what Kansas City is going to do with it. It still can be a very good trade for the Chiefs.”

The following is a look at the key aspects of the trade two seasons later:

Jamaal Charles: Charles is the key player in the deal from the Chiefs’ perspective. If he can build upon his fantastic finish in 2009, this trade will be great for Kansas City.

Charles was taken with the first of the two third-rounders the Chiefs got from Minnesota. The speedster ran for 1,120 yards after taking over as the starter in November, including 259 yards in the season finale against Denver. He averaged a whopping 5.9 yards per carry for the season and represents hope for Kansas City’s offense.

“I still think Kansas City needs to pick up a 230-pound back to run the ball 10 times to keep Charles fresh, but he looks like the real deal,” Williamson said. “He can be special. If Charles can get better and become a legit 1,500-yard back, then the Chiefs will really have something. It looks promising.”

Branden Albert: Albert was expected to be the centerpiece of this trade because he was the No. 15 overall pick (the Chiefs swapped the No. 17 pick to Detroit), but he has been slow to get his career going.

Albert, who has dealt with injuries, has been inconsistent at left tackle. Many league observers believe Albert will excel at either right tackle or left guard. The Chiefs might select a left tackle with the No. 5 pick in the 2010 draft and then move Albert to right tackle. Or, when Brian Waters (who turns 33 on Feb. 18) retires, Albert could move to left guard -- the position he played in college. Williamson thinks Albert could be a near-Pro Bowl-caliber guard.

Jared Allen posted a career-high 15.5 sacks in his final season in Kansas City.

If Kansas City does find a new left tackle and Albert plays right tackle in 2010, he should improve and be a solid contributor.

The Chiefs do miss Allen: There is no doubt Kansas City misses the talented Allen, but it was clear they would. He is a special pass-rusher.

Allen had 14.5 sacks in each of his seasons in Minnesota. He had 43 sacks in his four seasons in Kansas City, and the Chiefs have had little pass-rush presence since Allen was traded. In 2008, in fact, Kansas City set a record for the fewest sacks in a season with 10.

“The Chiefs don’t have a pass rush without Allen,” said Gary Horton of Scouts Inc. “They lost a lot by giving him up. Special, game-changing pass-rushers, which he is, are difficult to lose. They miss him, there’s no doubt.”

He wouldn’t fit Kansas City’s defense right now: Ironically, Allen wouldn’t be a great fit for the current Chiefs scheme. He was traded before the final season of the Carl Peterson-Herm Edwards era.

Last year, when Scott Pioli took over as general manager and hired Todd Haley as coach, Kansas City moved from a 4-3 defense to a 3-4 scheme. Allen wouldn’t have had an obvious position in the 3-4, a problem the Chiefs also encountered with defensive lineman Glenn Dorsey and linebacker Derrick Johnson.

“He’d be a total waste in Kansas City’s new scheme,” Williamson said. “He is not a 3-4 guy. He’s a classic 4-3 guy. So, it’s funny; Allen wouldn’t be right for the Chiefs. Maybe they would have stuck to a 4-3 if he stayed.”

Conclusion: By no means does this trade seem like a disaster for Kansas City. Yes, Minnesota is tickled with the deal and it should be. Allen is a great player.

But if Charles and Albert become solid fixtures in the offense, the deal will be good for Kansas City. It’d be nice if Morgan (whom the previous Kansas City regime loved as a rookie) bounces back from a poor second season and becomes a solid contributor, the trade will even be better. Robinson was cut as a rookie.

“On paper, it was a good trade then for Kansas City and it still can be very good,” Horton said. “Allen was going to be a good player on a bad team. The Chiefs needed to get younger. They seem to be on the right track with this trade.”

**BossChief** · 02-13-2010, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990

Dude, they only won 4 games. How good could they have been really??

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorysta...true&Submit=Go

In 2006 and 2007 we were ranked #16 and then #13 in overall defense, if we added Dorsey, Flowers and Carr to that defense it becomes studly.

right or wrong?

Add to that we would have walked into a great OLT class this year if we passed on the trade and one has to stomp his foot a bit to think we could have had Oher instead of Jackson and kept Jared.....

The last few years have been permafukd

Fish · 02-13-2010, 06:06 PM

X 1000

milkman · 02-13-2010, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

He got abused in the run game. He's hardly a perfect fit.

It's really hilarious you think Hali is more athletic than Allen, though. Funniest thing I've heard in a long time. Watch Hali run some time. He is PAINFUL to watch if he has to pursue anyone.

While I think that Sensible(Ha!) is right about the fit (Hali is better suited for this defense) his perception of Hali's overall game is skewed entirely too high.

milkman · 02-13-2010, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC Fish

X 1000

Zactly.

**the Talking Can** · 02-13-2010, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorysta...true&Submit=Go

In 2006 and 2007 we were ranked #16 and then #13 in overall defense, if we added Dorsey, Flowers and Carr to that defense it becomes studly.

right or wrong?

Add to that we would have walked into a great OLT class this year if we passed on the trade and one has to stomp his foot a bit to think we could have had Oher instead of Jackson and kept Jared.....

The last few years have been permafukd

just to clarify, the link you provided shows us 16th in yards per game...there is no overall stat...we were 11 in points allowed, etc...you can sort each column by clicking on it, you were showing a sort for yards per game

'Hamas' Jenkins · 02-13-2010, 06:36 PM

If we hadn't traded Allen we would have switched to the 3-4 anyway.

Mecca · 02-13-2010, 06:56 PM

If Allen was still here we'd still be playing 3-4 and he'd have spent the year looking like Aaron Kampan did in Green Bay, misused and out of place.

SenselessChiefsFan · 02-13-2010, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

While I think that Sensible(Ha!) is right about the fit (Hali is better suited for this defense) his perception of Hali's overall game is skewed entirely too high.

This isn't to say that Hali is a pro bowl player. I am not saying that. I am merely stating that Hali fits this defense much better than Allen.

And, this is the perfect defense for Hali. I have said that since last offseason.

It takes advantage of his strengths which are quickness, athleticsm and tenacity and limits his weaknesses... which are his struggle to shed blocks, his short arms, and his tendancy to play too high without leverage.

Allen is a great talent, and I would trade Hali for Allen any day.... so long as the Chiefs were going back to a 4-3.

Mecca · 02-13-2010, 06:59 PM

This being the "perfect defense" for Hali kind of speaks to how low his ceiling and upside always have been.

**Gadzooks** · 02-13-2010, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

If Allen was still here we'd still be playing 3-4 and he'd have spent the year looking like Aaron Kampan did in Green Bay, misused and out of place.

I disagree. Any DC worth a shit could have utilized Allen in their D as a rusher.
Comparing him to Kampman is delusional.

Mecca · 02-13-2010, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zooks

I disagree. Any DC worth a shit could have utilized Allen in their D as a rusher.
Comparing him to Kampman is delusional.

Kampman put up some really big years...then found himself playing OLB and being completely out of place doing it.

Allen has no place in that defense either.

SenselessChiefsFan · 02-13-2010, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

This being the "perfect defense" for Hali kind of speaks to how low his ceiling and upside always have been.

It is funny to hear guys bash on a 8 sack a year kind of guy. I am not saying he will be a HOF player, but the kid isn't a scrub either. He was a mid first round pick that has panned out well.

SenselessChiefsFan · 02-13-2010, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Kampman put up some really big years...then found himself playing OLB and being completely out of place doing it.

Allen has no place in that defense either.

Allen has more ability than Kampman. Of course, Kampman is a better team defender and doesn't feelance as much. Allen would have been sitting next to DJ.

**Gadzooks** · 02-13-2010, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Kampman put up some really big years...then found himself playing OLB and being completely out of place doing it.

Allen has no place in that defense either.

That's not the point. Any decent DC who's creative enough to think outside of a pre-programmed 3-4 alignment would be able to utilize either Kampman or Allen as a rusher.
Do you think Buddy Ryan would’ve wasted that kind of talent by using a cookie cutter defense? (Rob Ryan might, Rex probably wouldn't)

Mecca · 02-13-2010, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zooks

That's not the point. Any decent DC who's creative enough to think outside of a pre-programmed 3-4 alignment would be able to utilize either Kampman or Allen as a rusher.
Do you think Buddy Ryan would’ve wasted that kind of talent by using a cookie cutter defense? (Rob Ryan might, Rex probably wouldn't)

And you think this team has that?

02-13-2010, 04:20 PM
Mr. Flopnuts FINALLY! The wait is over. Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Future Is Now!!! Casino cash: $19947565	Revisiting the Jared Allen Trade http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post...ed-allen-trade Bill Williamson The image of a purple-clad Jared Allen celebrating over fallen quarterbacks can’t be fun for Kansas City Chiefs fans. (NFC North blogger Kevin Seifert took a look at the Allen deal from the Vikings' perspective.) They were used to seeing the mulleted one celebrating sacks as a Chief. Since Allen was traded to the Minnesota Vikings in 2008, the Chiefs have been listless on defense. But two seasons into the blockbuster trade, it is not necessarily fair to say Kansas City was a loser in the trade. Kansas City sent Allen and a sixth-round draft pick in 2008 for the No. 17 overall pick, two third-round picks and a sixth-round pick. Kansas City turned the picks into tackle Branden Albert, running back Jamaal Charles, safety DaJuan Morgan and sixth-round pick Kevin Robinson. The Vikings turned the Chiefs’ sixth-round pick into center John Sullivan. “Kansas City really can’t worry about what Allen is doing in Minnesota and that Sullivan is a starter,” Matt Williamson of Scouts Inc. said. “The Chiefs knew Allen was going to be good in Minnesota. But they didn’t want to pay him so they got very good value. That’s why the trade was good. It was a good trade because the value was good. Let’s see what Kansas City is going to do with it. It still can be a very good trade for the Chiefs.” The following is a look at the key aspects of the trade two seasons later: Jamaal Charles: Charles is the key player in the deal from the Chiefs’ perspective. If he can build upon his fantastic finish in 2009, this trade will be great for Kansas City. Charles was taken with the first of the two third-rounders the Chiefs got from Minnesota. The speedster ran for 1,120 yards after taking over as the starter in November, including 259 yards in the season finale against Denver. He averaged a whopping 5.9 yards per carry for the season and represents hope for Kansas City’s offense. “I still think Kansas City needs to pick up a 230-pound back to run the ball 10 times to keep Charles fresh, but he looks like the real deal,” Williamson said. “He can be special. If Charles can get better and become a legit 1,500-yard back, then the Chiefs will really have something. It looks promising.” Branden Albert: Albert was expected to be the centerpiece of this trade because he was the No. 15 overall pick (the Chiefs swapped the No. 17 pick to Detroit), but he has been slow to get his career going. Albert, who has dealt with injuries, has been inconsistent at left tackle. Many league observers believe Albert will excel at either right tackle or left guard. The Chiefs might select a left tackle with the No. 5 pick in the 2010 draft and then move Albert to right tackle. Or, when Brian Waters (who turns 33 on Feb. 18) retires, Albert could move to left guard -- the position he played in college. Williamson thinks Albert could be a near-Pro Bowl-caliber guard. Jared Allen posted a career-high 15.5 sacks in his final season in Kansas City. If Kansas City does find a new left tackle and Albert plays right tackle in 2010, he should improve and be a solid contributor. The Chiefs do miss Allen: There is no doubt Kansas City misses the talented Allen, but it was clear they would. He is a special pass-rusher. Allen had 14.5 sacks in each of his seasons in Minnesota. He had 43 sacks in his four seasons in Kansas City, and the Chiefs have had little pass-rush presence since Allen was traded. In 2008, in fact, Kansas City set a record for the fewest sacks in a season with 10. “The Chiefs don’t have a pass rush without Allen,” said Gary Horton of Scouts Inc. “They lost a lot by giving him up. Special, game-changing pass-rushers, which he is, are difficult to lose. They miss him, there’s no doubt.” He wouldn’t fit Kansas City’s defense right now: Ironically, Allen wouldn’t be a great fit for the current Chiefs scheme. He was traded before the final season of the Carl Peterson-Herm Edwards era. Last year, when Scott Pioli took over as general manager and hired Todd Haley as coach, Kansas City moved from a 4-3 defense to a 3-4 scheme. Allen wouldn’t have had an obvious position in the 3-4, a problem the Chiefs also encountered with defensive lineman Glenn Dorsey and linebacker Derrick Johnson. “He’d be a total waste in Kansas City’s new scheme,” Williamson said. “He is not a 3-4 guy. He’s a classic 4-3 guy. So, it’s funny; Allen wouldn’t be right for the Chiefs. Maybe they would have stuck to a 4-3 if he stayed.” Conclusion: By no means does this trade seem like a disaster for Kansas City. Yes, Minnesota is tickled with the deal and it should be. Allen is a great player. But if Charles and Albert become solid fixtures in the offense, the deal will be good for Kansas City. It’d be nice if Morgan (whom the previous Kansas City regime loved as a rookie) bounces back from a poor second season and becomes a solid contributor, the trade will even be better. Robinson was cut as a rookie. “On paper, it was a good trade then for Kansas City and it still can be very good,” Horton said. “Allen was going to be a good player on a bad team. The Chiefs needed to get younger. They seem to be on the right track with this trade.”
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02-13-2010, 06:06 PM	#47
Fish Ain't no relax! Join Date: Sep 2005 Casino cash: $1928919	X 1000 __________________
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02-13-2010, 06:36 PM	#51
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7949572	If we hadn't traded Allen we would have switched to the 3-4 anyway. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
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02-13-2010, 06:56 PM	#52
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $2267050	If Allen was still here we'd still be playing 3-4 and he'd have spent the year looking like Aaron Kampan did in Green Bay, misused and out of place.
Posts: 111,144

02-13-2010, 06:59 PM	#54
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $2267050	This being the "perfect defense" for Hali kind of speaks to how low his ceiling and upside always have been.
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