NFL Draft Two potential upgrades over Belcher - Page 4

RustShack · 09-20-2012, 09:53 PM

AMES, Iowa — Iowa State’s program has come to be defined by the fiery, passionate persona of coach Paul Rhoads.

The on-field identity of the Cyclones has been forged by seniors Jake Knott and A.J. Klein, a pair of once-overlooked linebackers who’ve blossomed into one of the top defensive duos in the country.

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The Cyclones are off to their second straight 3-0 start behind a defense that’s been better than most expected. They’re 13th in the nation in scoring defense at 10.7 points allowed per game and they haven’t allowed a touchdown in two weeks — a feat that hasn’t been pulled off at Iowa State since the mid-60s.

The performance of Iowa State’s defense so far has solidified Knott and Klein’s reputation as like-minded program changers.

“Coach Rhoads has been preaching since Day 1 about changing the culture. To be a part of that and to be the foundation of that is huge,” Knott said.

It’s hard to imagine where Iowa State’s once-porous defense would be without Knott and Klein.

Rhoads promised the Cyclones during their first meeting together before the 2009 season that they’d be a winning program right away. It was a bold statement to a team that had lost the final 10 games of the previous season and their coach, Gene Chizik, to a more high-profile job at Auburn.

But Knott and Klein, a pair of lightly recruited kids from the Midwest, helped Iowa State reach that goal immediately.

Knott grew up in suburban Des Moines and was considered a mid-level Division I prospect — though rivals Iowa and Northern Iowa wanted him to play baseball. Klein grew up in Kimberly, Wis., where his choices beyond Iowa State were Northern Illinois, Western Michigan and Wyoming.

They became fast friends after being paired as roommates in the dorms, and each showed enough in fall camp that Rhoads felt comfortable ditching their redshirts and playing them right away.

Knott and Klein played every game as Iowa State beat Minnesota in the Insight Bowl to cap a surprising 7-6 season.

“It was kind of crazy how similar we were when we got here,” Klein said. “Our work ethic is alike. Our communication is alike, and I think that is because we’re humble people. We come from humble beginnings. We weren’t blown up. We were overlooked by a lot of teams and we wanted to prove ourselves.”

It didn’t take long.

The pair earned starting jobs in 2010 and they’ve been swarming the football together ever since.

Knott was second in the Big 12 in tackles and Klein was fifth. Knott also picked off four passes and forced four fumbles, while Klein became the first Iowa State player in 15 years to return interceptions for touchdowns in consecutive weeks.

In 2011, Knott was a first-team All-Big 12 selection with 115 tackles, four more forced fumbles and a pair of picks out of the middle linebacker spot. Klein did him one better with 116 tackles and the Big 12’s co-defensive player of the year award.

“It’s easy to go out there and have a guy that you trust on and off the field playing next to you,” Knott said.

The pair often come off as interchangeable, so much so that Knott said he was confused with Klein while getting a flu shot earlier this week.

Knott and Klein play a similar brand of hard-nosed, physical football, and have developed a connection that makes them better together than apart.

“The understanding of the entire defense, not just a single position, allows us to be a little more active in the passing game. It all comes with film study and just experience,” Klein said. “With our communication and our bond that we’ve developed over the past couple of years, it’s the kind of thing we had to do so we could perform better.”

Their playmaking skills and hard-working mentality has rubbed off on a defense that’s often was on the wrong end of blowouts in the past.

The Cyclones opened the season by allowing 16 points in the first quarter to Tulsa. But Iowa State has only allowed 16 points since then — and Knott’s leaping tip and interception of Iowa’s James Vandenberg with 1:11 left provided the Cyclones with their signature moment thus far.

About the only difference between Knott and Klein is that Knott sports a Mohawk, while Klein has opted for shoulder-length locks.

Other than that, they’re eerily similar and equally successful.

The rest of the Cyclones have followed them.

“I think they just play hard. They’re serious. They like to prepare,” Rhoads said.

Copyright 2012 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

**BossChief** · 09-20-2012, 11:36 PM

Belcher isn't bad as a run stuffer. He was our second leading tackler next to DJ and did a he'll of a job blowing up the lead blocker the last two years.

He is just a 2 down backer though and we would be well served to get a guy that can stay on the field for 3 downs and can effectively defend the pass in today's NFL, though.

The whole team has turned the switch off this year, though.

Belcher included.

**DaneMcCloud** · 09-20-2012, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

Belcher isn't bad as a run stuffer. He was our second leading tackler next to DJ and did a he'll of a job blowing up the lead blocker the last two years.

Come on, Dude. The Chiefs have been blown out more times that I can count and in many games when they haven't been blown out, it's because the opposing team is resting their starters.

Belcher wouldn't start for any other team in the league. He sucks ass.

Blick · 09-20-2012, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

And our nose tackle is playing as poorly as we expected him to.

Glad you brought this up.

Why is Poe playing so poorly?

Because they're trying to teach an extremely raw player an extremely difficult technique.

And it's hurting everyone on defense.

Because Romeo has to play his scheme.

**DaneMcCloud** · 09-20-2012, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blick

Glad you brought this up.

Why is Poe playing so poorly?

Because they're trying to teach an extremely raw player an extremely difficult technique.

And it's hurting everyone on defense.

Because Romeo has to play his scheme.

Can.

You.

Space.

Out.

Your.

Thoughts.

Even.

More.

Thanks.

**BigMeatballDave** · 09-21-2012, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Can.

You.

Space.

Out.

Your.

Thoughts.

Even.

More.

Thanks.

I

Like

When

People

Post

With

Spaces.

I

Do

It

Too.

**BigMeatballDave** · 09-21-2012, 12:03 AM

I don't have a big problem with Belcher.

Sure, I'd like to have a stud back there, but if I had to chose between replacing him or Cassel, I don't need to tell you which way I'd go there.

Besides, how is Pioli going to find something better at that position when he can't even find talent at QB?

FAX · 09-21-2012, 12:04 AM

I interpret the Mr. Hootie-style spaces like when you're speaking with a person suffering from Tourette's and how they have to spin their head around and nod and spit and jiggle and shake awhile between words. All that's necessary is to be patient and use Dramamine.

FAX

**BigMeatballDave** · 09-21-2012, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAX

I interpret the Mr. Hootie-style spaces like when you're speaking with a person suffering from Tourette's and how they have to spin their head around and nod and spit and jiggle and shake awhile between words. All that's necessary is to be patient and use Dramamine.

FAX

Whydoyoubuncheverythingtogether?

**BossChief** · 09-21-2012, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Come on, Dude. The Chiefs have been blown out more times that I can count and in many games when they haven't been blown out, it's because the opposing team is resting their starters.

Belcher wouldn't start for any other team in the league. He sucks ass.

Somewhere in the middle of what you think this players worth is and what me and Milks thoughts on the worth of this player is...is his true value.

We had lots of discussions predraft about what would be the best usage of our pick and my board was like this:

1a) Tannehill via trade up
1b) Barron
3) Ingram
4) Mercilus
5) Kuechly

I wanted no part of Weeden, Decastro or Brockers...even though they will be good players, their drawbacks were too much to gamble on at 11 a d I thought that was the order of what spot needed upgraded the most.

Can you imagine if we landed any of those guys over Poe?

I mean, Poe MIGHT develop into another Ngata (and I see lots of lite things that show he is coachable from his technique on the first ps game to last week, even though it's kinda hard to see) but any of those guy would have been instant upgrades that play major roles.

Titty Meat · 09-21-2012, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

Somewhere in the middle of what you think this players worth is and what me and Milks thoughts on the worth of this player is...is his true value.

We had lots of discussions predraft about what would be the best usage of our pick and my board was like this:

1a) Tannehill via trade up
1b) Barron
3) Ingram
4) Mercilus
5) Kuechly

I wanted no part of Weeden, Decastro or Brockers...even though they will be good players, their drawbacks were too much to gamble on at 11 a d I thought that was the order of what spot needed upgraded the most.

Can you imagine if we landed any of those guys over Poe?

I mean, Poe MIGHT develop into another Ngata (and I see lots of lite things that show he is coachable from his technique on the first ps game to last week, even though it's kinda hard to see) but any of those guy would have been instant upgrades that play major roles.

I recall many on here wanting no part of Tannehill besides you, me, Milk, and a few others. Chiefs could have gave up the Donald Stephenson pick and drafted him too.

**BossChief** · 09-21-2012, 12:38 AM

Most posters here were like "I'd be fine if we trade down and take Tanehill...I'm not sure I'd be ok taking him at 11 and if Pioli were to trade up, he should be fired on the spot...I'm not even sure he is a first rounder"

I talked about how the 11th spot is perfect because the first 5 years are all cheap and the kid has every tool you want in a quarterback.

Strong arm
Accurate
Mobile and uses his mobility to buy time for receivers to get open
Coaches son
Natural instincts for the position
Elite upside

The kid is gonna have his struggles, like all rookie and young quarterbacks...but he has already showed that he belongs as a starter in this league and is playing very well EVEN THOUGH THAT TEAM HAS NO TALENT ON OFFENSE OUTSIDE OF REGGIE BUSH.

His best receiver is Brian ****ing Hartline FFS.

Once they get the guy some weapons, he is gonna be good.

Just another damning piece of evidence on Pioli.

**** that no balls having bitch and his boyfriend.

**BigMeatballDave** · 09-21-2012, 12:51 AM

The way Pioli operates, you'd think he completely ignores what every other team is doing.

jspchief · 09-21-2012, 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

It's an antiquated scheme that makes players think too much. Instead of an attacking defense, it's a thinking defense.

That no longer works in the NFL when you're facing 6'4 tight ends that run like receivers. Plus, it takes away from players athleticism because they're thinking all the time.

This isn't 2002 or 2003 or 2004. The rules have changed. This scheme is dead.

I believe this is the issue more than anything. People are looking for individual players to lay blame on after these first 2 games, but the real scapegoat is the coaching. These guys are not being put into situations to succeed. Crennel's defensive alignments and play calling have been horrible.

I said last year that I was concerned about what we saw in Crennel's 3 games as interim coach. I was worried he was coaching as a guy trying to win his last chance to ever be a HC. It was win or go home scenario. He may not have even been kept on as DC had a new HC come in. Now he's calling plays as a guy trying not to lose his last gig as a HC.

He had to push all his chips in late in 2011 and he set the dogs loose in doing it. Now he's trying to play for longevity and he's neutered his playcalling in the process.

**DaKCMan AP** · 09-21-2012, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustShack

These two are legit getting drafted though. And arguably the best LB duo in the nation.

chiefzilla1501 · 09-21-2012, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blick

Glad you brought this up.

Why is Poe playing so poorly?

Because they're trying to teach an extremely raw player an extremely difficult technique.

And it's hurting everyone on defense.

Because Romeo has to play his scheme.

I don't blame that on Poe. I blame that on the gm who took 4 years to take the position seriously. Granted, not anybody's fault toribio got hurt. But Poe should not be starting.

And no, the fact that the chiefs drafted Poe shows they are thinking outside the scheme. Poe isn't a traditional 2 down lineman. They want him to be in on every snap and it's rare for a guy his size to have upside to be good at multiple techniques.

I don't know why this is a difficult point to sell. The nose tackle is very important. And we don't have one who is l,aging even close to good football. It's like we are forced to play defense with Matt cassel.

09-20-2012, 09:53 PM
RustShack **** That Noise Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Jack Trice Casino cash: $4586954	Two potential upgrades over Belcher AMES, Iowa — Iowa State’s program has come to be defined by the fiery, passionate persona of coach Paul Rhoads. The on-field identity of the Cyclones has been forged by seniors Jake Knott and A.J. Klein, a pair of once-overlooked linebackers who’ve blossomed into one of the top defensive duos in the country. 0 Comments Weigh InCorrections? Personal Post The Cyclones are off to their second straight 3-0 start behind a defense that’s been better than most expected. They’re 13th in the nation in scoring defense at 10.7 points allowed per game and they haven’t allowed a touchdown in two weeks — a feat that hasn’t been pulled off at Iowa State since the mid-60s. The performance of Iowa State’s defense so far has solidified Knott and Klein’s reputation as like-minded program changers. “Coach Rhoads has been preaching since Day 1 about changing the culture. To be a part of that and to be the foundation of that is huge,” Knott said. It’s hard to imagine where Iowa State’s once-porous defense would be without Knott and Klein. Rhoads promised the Cyclones during their first meeting together before the 2009 season that they’d be a winning program right away. It was a bold statement to a team that had lost the final 10 games of the previous season and their coach, Gene Chizik, to a more high-profile job at Auburn. But Knott and Klein, a pair of lightly recruited kids from the Midwest, helped Iowa State reach that goal immediately. Knott grew up in suburban Des Moines and was considered a mid-level Division I prospect — though rivals Iowa and Northern Iowa wanted him to play baseball. Klein grew up in Kimberly, Wis., where his choices beyond Iowa State were Northern Illinois, Western Michigan and Wyoming. They became fast friends after being paired as roommates in the dorms, and each showed enough in fall camp that Rhoads felt comfortable ditching their redshirts and playing them right away. Knott and Klein played every game as Iowa State beat Minnesota in the Insight Bowl to cap a surprising 7-6 season. “It was kind of crazy how similar we were when we got here,” Klein said. “Our work ethic is alike. Our communication is alike, and I think that is because we’re humble people. We come from humble beginnings. We weren’t blown up. We were overlooked by a lot of teams and we wanted to prove ourselves.” It didn’t take long. The pair earned starting jobs in 2010 and they’ve been swarming the football together ever since. Knott was second in the Big 12 in tackles and Klein was fifth. Knott also picked off four passes and forced four fumbles, while Klein became the first Iowa State player in 15 years to return interceptions for touchdowns in consecutive weeks. In 2011, Knott was a first-team All-Big 12 selection with 115 tackles, four more forced fumbles and a pair of picks out of the middle linebacker spot. Klein did him one better with 116 tackles and the Big 12’s co-defensive player of the year award. “It’s easy to go out there and have a guy that you trust on and off the field playing next to you,” Knott said. The pair often come off as interchangeable, so much so that Knott said he was confused with Klein while getting a flu shot earlier this week. Knott and Klein play a similar brand of hard-nosed, physical football, and have developed a connection that makes them better together than apart. “The understanding of the entire defense, not just a single position, allows us to be a little more active in the passing game. It all comes with film study and just experience,” Klein said. “With our communication and our bond that we’ve developed over the past couple of years, it’s the kind of thing we had to do so we could perform better.” Their playmaking skills and hard-working mentality has rubbed off on a defense that’s often was on the wrong end of blowouts in the past. The Cyclones opened the season by allowing 16 points in the first quarter to Tulsa. But Iowa State has only allowed 16 points since then — and Knott’s leaping tip and interception of Iowa’s James Vandenberg with 1:11 left provided the Cyclones with their signature moment thus far. About the only difference between Knott and Klein is that Knott sports a Mohawk, while Klein has opted for shoulder-length locks. Other than that, they’re eerily similar and equally successful. The rest of the Cyclones have followed them. “I think they just play hard. They’re serious. They like to prepare,” Rhoads said. Copyright 2012 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
Posts: 15,049

09-20-2012, 11:36 PM	#46
BossChief SuperBowl or bust Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: BF Iowa Casino cash: $1524088	Belcher isn't bad as a run stuffer. He was our second leading tackler next to DJ and did a he'll of a job blowing up the lead blocker the last two years. He is just a 2 down backer though and we would be well served to get a guy that can stay on the field for 3 downs and can effectively defend the pass in today's NFL, though. The whole team has turned the switch off this year, though. Belcher included.
Posts: 47,175

09-21-2012, 12:03 AM	#51
BigMeatballDave GBM 8-12-15 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Dayton, Oh. Casino cash: $10052154	I don't have a big problem with Belcher. Sure, I'd like to have a stud back there, but if I had to chose between replacing him or Cassel, I don't need to tell you which way I'd go there. Besides, how is Pioli going to find something better at that position when he can't even find talent at QB? __________________ 2015 Adopt-a-Chief: Tamba Hali
Posts: 59,997

09-21-2012, 12:04 AM	#52
FAX testing ... 1, 2, 3 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Tennessee Casino cash: $6753759	I interpret the Mr. Hootie-style spaces like when you're speaking with a person suffering from Tourette's and how they have to spin their head around and nod and spit and jiggle and shake awhile between words. All that's necessary is to be patient and use Dramamine. FAX
Posts: 44,492

09-21-2012, 12:38 AM	#56
BossChief SuperBowl or bust Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: BF Iowa Casino cash: $1524088	Most posters here were like "I'd be fine if we trade down and take Tanehill...I'm not sure I'd be ok taking him at 11 and if Pioli were to trade up, he should be fired on the spot...I'm not even sure he is a first rounder" I talked about how the 11th spot is perfect because the first 5 years are all cheap and the kid has every tool you want in a quarterback. Strong arm Accurate Mobile and uses his mobility to buy time for receivers to get open Coaches son Natural instincts for the position Elite upside The kid is gonna have his struggles, like all rookie and young quarterbacks...but he has already showed that he belongs as a starter in this league and is playing very well EVEN THOUGH THAT TEAM HAS NO TALENT ON OFFENSE OUTSIDE OF REGGIE BUSH. His best receiver is Brian **ing Hartline FFS. Once they get the guy some weapons, he is gonna be good. Just another damning piece of evidence on Pioli. ** that no balls having bitch and his boyfriend.
Posts: 47,175

09-21-2012, 12:51 AM	#57
BigMeatballDave GBM 8-12-15 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Dayton, Oh. Casino cash: $10052154	The way Pioli operates, you'd think he completely ignores what every other team is doing. __________________ 2015 Adopt-a-Chief: Tamba Hali
Posts: 59,997