Cardinals ***Offical 2012 STL Cardinals World Champions Thread *** - Page 44

**BigRedChief** · 08:57 PM

St. Louis Cardinals: 7 reasons fans should feel good about 2012

Posted Wednesday, October 24, 2012, at 9:26 PM

St. Louis Cardinals fans are likely feeling deflated after the collapse that put an end to the team's dreams of a World Series repeat, but there is good reason to be excited.

With all of the odds against them, the Cardinals managed to push their 2012 season beyond any anticipated boundary.

Given all of the season's changes and the adversity the team had to fight through, the fact that they played in October at all was an anomaly in itself. On paper, it made sense for the Cardinals to be in the playoffs, but few saw them as a true threat.
As the season continued, even fans began to doubt as they watched the team seemingly crumble in June and July. When the Cardinals finally came to life in September they went 11-5 in the last 16 games of the season to lock up the second Wild Card position in its inaugural year.

That run, despite it's crushing end in Cincinnati in Game 7 of the National League Championship Series, lots of good came from the Cardinals' season and playoff run.
Following in no particular order are 10 reasons Cardinals fans have to be excited about the 2013 season.

Trevor Rosenthal
When rookie fireballer Trevor Rosenthal made his first trip to St. Louis, it was obvious almost instantly that he was something special.
Between his 100 mph fastball and the general inability for almost anyone to hit off of him, he became a huge part of the Cardinals playoff run.

He pitched in a total of 19 regular season games before the 22-year-old rookie from Lee's Summit, Mo. got his first taste of postseason baseball and he put on quite a show.
In 8.2 IP over seven postseason appearances, Rosenthal held opponents to only two hits and no runs.
It's possible that down the stretch he may have already earned his spot in the rotation for 2013.

Shelby Miller
The long-coveted fastball pitching prospect Shelby Miller also made his first trip to St. Louis in 2012 and put on a good show.
In 13.2 IP over six regular season games, Miller surrendered only two runs on nine hits. His postseason performance was more of the same with two runs on four hits in 3.2 IP.

Despite a dismal first half of the season in Memphis, Miller got himself together and still managed to make one major league start before the end of the season -- a very impressive start at that.
Against the Cincinnati Reds in the final game of the regular season, Miller posted 5.2 hitless innings. He gave up no runs and collected his first major league win.

Expect to see a lot more of Miller in St. Louis early in 2013.

Joe Kelly
When Joe Kelly made his major league debut on June 10, few could have guessed the importance he would play throughout the remainder of the 2012 season.
Kelly started 16 games for the Cardinals this season filling in for Jaime Garcia and Lance Lynn, but it was the postseason when he really came through for his teammates.

When starting pitchers struggled time and again in October, it was Kelly who came to their rescue.
In seven postseason appearances, Kelly threw 7.2 innings and surrendered only two runs on six hits. Kelly came through for the Cardinals from the bullpen.
There's a good chance that could be his home in the future.

Mike Matheny
When the Cardinals hired Mike Matheny to take over for Tony LaRussa, many question bringing in a manager with no experience to such a storied franchise.

He had a few hiccups and growing pains along the way, but for a rookie manager to get his team where Matheny did this year speaks volumes.
His players have a strong respect for Matheny and credit his positive style with being a driving force behind their 2012 success.
True, he didn't get them through the NLCS, but the team made it to an all or nothing Game 7. That's good experience for the players obviously, but also for Matheny. Not only did he learn a lot about managing in the media pressure cooker that is postseason baseball, he also got a taste of what it felt like to win as a manager.

NLCS loss means more drive to win
While the NLCS loss was a good lesson for a young manager, it's an even more important lesson for a young player.
The 2011 championship lit a fire under young players like Lance Lynn and Jon Jay. That fire helped drive them to extremely successful sophomore seasons.

What happened in 2012 will likely do the same for Rosenthal, Miller and Kelly. Their 2013 season may not be like Jay or Lynn's 2012, but now they've gotten a little taste of what it feels like to be a winner.

Both the excitement and the public humbling can be a great experience for any young player.

The run was without several key components
In a season riddled with injuries, none were as crucial as those late in the season.
The loss of Lance Berkman and Rafael Furcal significantly weakened the team's bench. Instead of having Pete Kozma, Allen Craig and Matt Carpenter to pinch hit, the team wound up having to use them in the lineup.

The loss of Jaime Garcia and Jake Westbrook also rocked the Cardinals. Instead of having Lynn and Westbrook also available from the bullpen, Lynn was pushed back into the rotation after a very successful NLDS bullpen stint.

Having gotten as deep into the playoffs as the Cardinals did in spite of the injuries is quite the accomplishment.

They did it without Pujols, LaRussa and Duncan
Few in the world of sports gave the Cardinals a fighting chance when Albert Pujols left the team to play on the west coast. Surely this team couldn't be as good as they were?

Few gave them a chance after longtime manager Tony LaRussa decided it was time to retire.
Few gave them a chance after pitching coach Dave Duncan left the team.
The Cardinals did it despite all of that. That's something any fan should be proud of.

No, they didn't hoist a trophy. There will be no parade or tickertape.
What there is, though, is hope for next year and that will come sooner than you may think.
After all, pitchers and catchers report to Spring Training in just four short months.

From a blog I was sent on twitter: http://www.dailystatesman.com/blogs/...es/entry/50051

veist · 05-16-2012, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

those guys have him coming up this year. No way. He won't come up until after the all star game next year at the earliest no matter how well he mashes. The Cardinals are not going to let the MLB service time start ticking at 20 years old.

I don't think he does either but I think it has less to do with his age than the simple fact that he's still really rough defensively and needs the time to work on his defense.

**BigRedChief** · 05-17-2012, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by veist

I don't think he does either but I think it has less to do with his age than the simple fact that he's still really rough defensively and needs the time to work on his defense.

Tavares already has 10 homers in 143 at-bats this year for Springfield while batting .315/.364/.643 in 36 games.

Marcellus · 05-17-2012, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frazod

Yep. I'm the only one.

That's all you took from that article? That since you aren't the only person off base on this subject then it justifies your position, "facts be damned" as Bernie put it?

Frazod · 05-17-2012, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus

That's all you took from that article? That since you aren't the only person off base on this subject then it justifies your position, "facts be damned" as Bernie put it?

I mainly took it as more turd polishing, probably at the behest of the organization.

The Holliday supporters kind of remind me of the Gabbert supporters. Dudes piss down their legs in key situations over and over, yet I should love them based on statistics. At least I'm not stuck forever with one of them.

Swanman · 05-17-2012, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frazod

I mainly took it as more turd polishing, probably at the behest of the organization.

The Holliday supporters kind of remind me of the Gabbert supporters. Dudes piss down their legs in key situations over and over, yet I should love them based on statistics. At least I'm not stuck forever with one of them.

Holliday is a guy that is going to put up good numbers every year, and that is helpful. But he does have the tendency to not produce at all when it's really needed. Like you, I was at the games at Busch over the weekend, and there was no doubt in my mind that he would strike out when he pinch hit on Sunday. I would have liked to see Yadi pinch hit there, but you really can't burn your only other catcher in that situation.

I did convert the wife from a Cubs fan to a Cards fan over the weekend. I guess seeing a couple of games at Busch won her over. At Wrigley, you have a better chance of being puked on than actually having an intelligent baseball conversation so she appreciates fans that actually watch the game.

Marcellus · 05-17-2012, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frazod

I mainly took it as more turd polishing, probably at the behest of the organization.

The Holliday supporters kind of remind me of the Gabbert supporters. Dudes piss down their legs in key situations over and over, yet I should love them based on statistics. At least I'm not stuck forever with one of them.

In summary you ignore what people who get paid to analyze performance vs value for a living think and go with what you believe in your mind only.

understood.

Yea he can be frustrating, I understand that but the simple fact is his numbers will be there at the end of the year.

How is this spin in any way shape or form?

Since signing the contract, this is where Holliday ranks among major-league left fielders: 2nd in homers, second in RBIs, 2nd in onbase percentage, 4th in slugging percentage, 2nd in extra-base hits, 4th in batting average, 2nd in runs created. Only one LF in the game has produced more than Holliday since the start of the 2010 season -- Milwaukee's Ryan Braun.

Frazod · 05-17-2012, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus

In summary you ignore what people who get paid to analyze performance vs value for a living think and go with what you believe in your mind only.

understood.

Yea he can be frustrating, I understand that but the simple fact is his numbers will be there at the end of the year.

How is this spin in any way shape or form?

Since signing the contract, this is where Holliday ranks among major-league left fielders: 2nd in homers, second in RBIs, 2nd in onbase percentage, 4th in slugging percentage, 2nd in extra-base hits, 4th in batting average, 2nd in runs created. Only one LF in the game has produced more than Holliday since the start of the 2010 season -- Milwaukee's Ryan Braun.

Is "frustrating" a word that should be associated with your No. 3 hitter? Your highest payed player? Really?

I'm not interested in his Bronco-air inflated career stats, nor do I care how many hits he gets when we're up 7-1 against the ****ing Pirates. All I know is that if the game is on the line, I'd rather see pretty much anybody in the lineup at the plate than Holliday (other than the pitcher and whoever our second baseman du jour is).

**luv** · 05-17-2012, 08:44 AM

I've got 1/4 season tickets to the Springfield Cardinals (AA, as I'm sure you all know). This Sunday, I think it's the last game that they're giving out the replica WS rings. 2500. The place will be packed. I heard that people were at prior giveaway games offering upwards of $50-60 on the spot for a ring that didn't get one.

Marcellus · 05-17-2012, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frazod

Is "frustrating" a word that should be associated with your No. 3 hitter? Your highest payed player? Really?

I'm not interested in his Bronco-air inflated career stats, nor do I care how many hits he gets when we're up 7-1 against the ****ing Pirates. All I know is that if the game is on the line, I'd rather see pretty much anybody in the lineup at the plate than Holliday (other than the pitcher and whoever our second baseman du jour is).

Hatred is clouding your ability to read, the stats I quoted are based off his time since joining the Cards not his time in Colorado.

The point you continually fail to realize regardless of how many times it is made, the reason Holliday is frustrating is simply the expectations are ridiculous. How you can't figure that out is beyond me. He is doing what he has done for most of his career, his numbers aren't down. If you look, his OPS is actually higher since coming to Stl than it was in Colorado, but just ignore the facts.

Do I get frustrated? Yea, why? Because I expect a hit every at bat with runners in scoring position, is that realistic? Ummm no.

In summary, he is what he is, and always has been. People who hate on him expect him to be something he has never been. He will never be AP, Musial etc...regardless of what you want and expect from $17MM a year.

And looking around at what players are making now he isn't even overpaid.

Frazod · 05-17-2012, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus

Hatred is clouding your ability to read, the stats I quoted are based off his time since joining the Cards not his time in Colorado.

The point you continually fail to realize regardless of how many times it is made, the reason Holliday is frustrating is simply the expectations are ridiculous. How you can't figure that out is beyond me. He is doing what he has done for most of his career, his numbers aren't down. If you look, his OPS is actually higher since coming to Stl than it was in Colorado, but just ignore the facts.

Do I get frustrated? Yea, why? Because I expect a hit every at bat with runners in scoring position, is that realistic? Ummm no.

In summary, he is what he is, and always has been. People who hate on him expect him to be something he has never been. He will never be AP, Musial etc...regardless of what you want and expect from $17MM a year.

And looking around at what players are making now he isn't even overpaid.

That's all lovely, really. I still think he sucks. Quick, roll out some more stats!

Frazod · 05-17-2012, 09:01 AM

Bernie did hit on one thing I agree with - my contempt for this turd was cemented the day he dropped that routine fly ball in the Dodgers playoff game, and then stood there like a ****ing doofus afterward. And he's really not done much to change my opinion of him since. When the going gets tough, Holliday disappears.

Marcellus · 05-17-2012, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frazod

Bernie did hit on one thing I agree with - my contempt for this turd was cemented the day he dropped that routine fly ball in the Dodgers playoff game, and then stood there like a ****ing doofus afterward. And he's really not done much to change my opinion of him since. When the going gets tough, Holliday disappears.

I suspected that to be the case, I was pissed too.

kcpasco · 05-18-2012, 11:51 PM

Bullpen is absolutely horrible right now.
If they don't turn it around I'm afraid Craig might be traded for relief pitching.

Jewish Rabbi · 05-19-2012, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcpasco

Bullpen is absolutely horrible right now.
If they don't turn it around I'm afraid Craig might be traded for relief pitching.

No way Craig is traded.

L.A. Chieffan · 05-19-2012, 12:49 AM

Only a dumbass like frazhole would think that Holliday sucks.

Did you see that home run he hit tonight with a guy on to take the lead?

He probably didn't even know who Holliday was until he came to St. Louis.

01-04-2012, 10:08 PM
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $1128962 VARSITY	*Offical 2012 STL Cardinals World Champions Thread * St. Louis Cardinals: 7 reasons fans should feel good about 2012 Posted Wednesday, October 24, 2012, at 9:26 PM St. Louis Cardinals fans are likely feeling deflated after the collapse that put an end to the team's dreams of a World Series repeat, but there is good reason to be excited. With all of the odds against them, the Cardinals managed to push their 2012 season beyond any anticipated boundary. Given all of the season's changes and the adversity the team had to fight through, the fact that they played in October at all was an anomaly in itself. On paper, it made sense for the Cardinals to be in the playoffs, but few saw them as a true threat. As the season continued, even fans began to doubt as they watched the team seemingly crumble in June and July. When the Cardinals finally came to life in September they went 11-5 in the last 16 games of the season to lock up the second Wild Card position in its inaugural year. That run, despite it's crushing end in Cincinnati in Game 7 of the National League Championship Series, lots of good came from the Cardinals' season and playoff run. Following in no particular order are 10 reasons Cardinals fans have to be excited about the 2013 season. Trevor Rosenthal When rookie fireballer Trevor Rosenthal made his first trip to St. Louis, it was obvious almost instantly that he was something special. Between his 100 mph fastball and the general inability for almost anyone to hit off of him, he became a huge part of the Cardinals playoff run. He pitched in a total of 19 regular season games before the 22-year-old rookie from Lee's Summit, Mo. got his first taste of postseason baseball and he put on quite a show. In 8.2 IP over seven postseason appearances, Rosenthal held opponents to only two hits and no runs. It's possible that down the stretch he may have already earned his spot in the rotation for 2013. Shelby Miller The long-coveted fastball pitching prospect Shelby Miller also made his first trip to St. Louis in 2012 and put on a good show. In 13.2 IP over six regular season games, Miller surrendered only two runs on nine hits. His postseason performance was more of the same with two runs on four hits in 3.2 IP. Despite a dismal first half of the season in Memphis, Miller got himself together and still managed to make one major league start before the end of the season -- a very impressive start at that. Against the Cincinnati Reds in the final game of the regular season, Miller posted 5.2 hitless innings. He gave up no runs and collected his first major league win. Expect to see a lot more of Miller in St. Louis early in 2013. Joe Kelly When Joe Kelly made his major league debut on June 10, few could have guessed the importance he would play throughout the remainder of the 2012 season. Kelly started 16 games for the Cardinals this season filling in for Jaime Garcia and Lance Lynn, but it was the postseason when he really came through for his teammates. When starting pitchers struggled time and again in October, it was Kelly who came to their rescue. In seven postseason appearances, Kelly threw 7.2 innings and surrendered only two runs on six hits. Kelly came through for the Cardinals from the bullpen. There's a good chance that could be his home in the future. Mike Matheny When the Cardinals hired Mike Matheny to take over for Tony LaRussa, many question bringing in a manager with no experience to such a storied franchise. He had a few hiccups and growing pains along the way, but for a rookie manager to get his team where Matheny did this year speaks volumes. His players have a strong respect for Matheny and credit his positive style with being a driving force behind their 2012 success. True, he didn't get them through the NLCS, but the team made it to an all or nothing Game 7. That's good experience for the players obviously, but also for Matheny. Not only did he learn a lot about managing in the media pressure cooker that is postseason baseball, he also got a taste of what it felt like to win as a manager. NLCS loss means more drive to win While the NLCS loss was a good lesson for a young manager, it's an even more important lesson for a young player. The 2011 championship lit a fire under young players like Lance Lynn and Jon Jay. That fire helped drive them to extremely successful sophomore seasons. What happened in 2012 will likely do the same for Rosenthal, Miller and Kelly. Their 2013 season may not be like Jay or Lynn's 2012, but now they've gotten a little taste of what it feels like to be a winner. Both the excitement and the public humbling can be a great experience for any young player. The run was without several key components In a season riddled with injuries, none were as crucial as those late in the season. The loss of Lance Berkman and Rafael Furcal significantly weakened the team's bench. Instead of having Pete Kozma, Allen Craig and Matt Carpenter to pinch hit, the team wound up having to use them in the lineup. The loss of Jaime Garcia and Jake Westbrook also rocked the Cardinals. Instead of having Lynn and Westbrook also available from the bullpen, Lynn was pushed back into the rotation after a very successful NLDS bullpen stint. Having gotten as deep into the playoffs as the Cardinals did in spite of the injuries is quite the accomplishment. They did it without Pujols, LaRussa and Duncan Few in the world of sports gave the Cardinals a fighting chance when Albert Pujols left the team to play on the west coast. Surely this team couldn't be as good as they were? Few gave them a chance after longtime manager Tony LaRussa decided it was time to retire. Few gave them a chance after pitching coach Dave Duncan left the team. The Cardinals did it despite all of that. That's something any fan should be proud of. No, they didn't hoist a trophy. There will be no parade or tickertape. What there is, though, is hope for next year and that will come sooner than you may think. After all, pitchers and catchers report to Spring Training in just four short months. From a blog I was sent on twitter: http://www.dailystatesman.com/blogs/...es/entry/50051 Last edited by BigRedChief; 10-24-2012 at 08:57 PM..
Posts: 80,181

05-17-2012, 08:44 AM	#653
luv You think you can get by this? Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Springfield, MO Casino cash: $-380000	I've got 1/4 season tickets to the Springfield Cardinals (AA, as I'm sure you all know). This Sunday, I think it's the last game that they're giving out the replica WS rings. 2500. The place will be packed. I heard that people were at prior giveaway games offering upwards of $50-60 on the spot for a ring that didn't get one.
Posts: 63,503

05-17-2012, 09:01 AM	#656
Frazod WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $1163385	Bernie did hit on one thing I agree with - my contempt for this turd was cemented the day he dropped that routine fly ball in the Dodgers playoff game, and then stood there like a ****ing doofus afterward. And he's really not done much to change my opinion of him since. When the going gets tough, Holliday disappears.
Posts: 120,285

05-18-2012, 11:51 PM	#658
kcpasco MVP Join Date: Sep 2007 Casino cash: $6773463	Bullpen is absolutely horrible right now. If they don't turn it around I'm afraid Craig might be traded for relief pitching.
Posts: 15,788

05-19-2012, 12:49 AM	#660
L.A. Chieffan PLAY GOOD FOOTBALL Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: American Gardens Building Casino cash: $3288654	Only a dumbass like frazhole would think that Holliday sucks. Did you see that home run he hit tonight with a guy on to take the lead? He probably didn't even know who Holliday was until he came to St. Louis.
Posts: 17,386