Why not Kellen Moore ?

[OzarksChiefsFan]

There may be the second coming of Drew Brees in this years draft. Kellen Moore is a coaches son who has incredible accuracy and pocket awareness. Here's a link.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...b-kellen-moore

[OzarksChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

And so is Tim Tebow. I swear to god, I never want to hear "he's a winner" in regards to a college quarterback again in my life. It's just completely irrelevant and it's often revisionist bullshit that we hear after the fact.

And he may not be afraid of the pass rush now, but wait until NFL lineman and LBers are blasting him. A little fear of the pass-rush is a good thing, especially if you weigh 190 lbs; this aint Big Ben - he can't take that pounding. Worse still, unlike a guy like Rogers who could roll out a little bit and still have the arm strength to fire the ball, Moore basically has to step into his throws to make them go anywhere, so he has no real choice but to get blasted.

He won't be able to really throw on the move in this league due to his limited arm so you can't even roll him left or right to move the pocket to slow down pass-rushes. Further, 'the ability to stand in the pocket' is only good if you can survive the impact or at least minimize the harm thereof. Moore has to put his whole body into throws and if he has to do that in the fact of a rush 15 - 20 times/gm, he's simply going to get physically abused.

He's a non-entity here, IMO.

All your points are good ones and I mostly concur. When your looking for a QB you can't let the "he doesn't fit the mold" stuff keep you from giving a guy a shot. Kurt Warner did not have a great arm, Joe Montana did not have a great arm,Tom Brady did not have a great arm, Lenny Dawson did not have a great arm, Dan Fouts did not have a great arm, Ken Stabler did not have a big arm and Johnny Unitas did not have a big arm. I admit todays game more than ever requires a QB to make all the throws.

I do not agree with your assumption that someone with a weaker arm needs more throws to succeed than someone with a stronger arm. Accurate is accurate, I saw Lenny throw the ball well in all kinds of weather and in his heyday he could only throw the ball 55 yards and they ran much more than the Chiefs of today. I don't remember Joe Montana struggling with the winds at Candlestick. I have seen Elway not be able to throw it in the rain. There are a lot of factors that affect QBs and arm strength is not the only measuring stick. That said your points are well taken. I do not think Moore will be drafted. I have seen a lot of Mock drafts and have yet to see one that has him drafted.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by OzarksChiefsFan

I have seen a lot of Mock drafts and have yet to see one that has him drafted.

Weird. I haven't seen 1 mock yet that covered all 32 teams and all 7 rounds.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

If we're passing 40 times/gm, Romeo's 2-gap scheme is going to be far less effective and that bend but don't break thing just isn't going to fly.

And even if we throw the ball 30 times/gm, I don't want to be doing it from an offense like the Saints or even the Pats. I know everyone wants to say the running game is dead, but I disagree. Trying to be exclusively a running team may be dead, but I still think to have a consistently successful team you need to have no worse than an above-average running game. You need to be able to present a credible threat of running the football at all times and you need to be able to adapt on days that the pass just isn't working (some days that's going to happen).

I want to remain no worse than a single-back offense starting from under center. If you're going to run a small, undersized quarterback out there you essentially have to operate a pure timing-pattern, shotgun style offense where you run the ball as something of a changeup.

I don't like that idea at all. I don't mind having it in our bag, but I damn sure don't want to build an offense focused on that kind of football; it's simply too dependent on things you can't control. Further, it also requires a HOF caliber QB to operate it well.

I know we keep looking to teams like NO, NE and GB as 'model' offenses, but that's because they happen to have 3 QBs that are potential HOFers by the time all is said and done, hell all 3 could end up being considered top 20 guys ever. Even if we hit on a 'franchise' guy, it's going to be more like Eli Manning or Cutler or Big Ben; guys that are very good QBs but all of those guys need versatile, rounded offenses to succeed.

The whole argument about the defense doesn't make sense at all. The only thing the offense does that should affect the D is how many times it's going 3 and out. If the offense is having success, the D will not suffer. And in case you haven't noticed, through those final few games, the Chiefs became more of a pressure Defense. Blitzes became quite a bit more frequent. If that even matters. Which, IMO, it won't.

And I'm not saying you should abandon the running game. You seem to think a timing offense can't co-exist with a running game. I disagree.

[MahiMike]

Drew Brees will never amount to anything.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by OzarksChiefsFan

All your points are good ones and I mostly concur. When your looking for a QB you can't let the "he doesn't fit the mold" stuff keep you from giving a guy a shot. Kurt Warner did not have a great arm, Joe Montana did not have a great arm,Tom Brady did not have a great arm, Lenny Dawson did not have a great arm, Dan Fouts did not have a great arm, Ken Stabler did not have a big arm and Johnny Unitas did not have a big arm. I admit todays game more than ever requires a QB to make all the throws.

I do not agree with your assumption that someone with a weaker arm needs more throws to succeed than someone with a stronger arm. Accurate is accurate, I saw Lenny throw the ball well in all kinds of weather and in his heyday he could only throw the ball 55 yards and they ran much more than the Chiefs of today. I don't remember Joe Montana struggling with the winds at Candlestick. I have seen Elway not be able to throw it in the rain. There are a lot of factors that affect QBs and arm strength is not the only measuring stick. That said your points are well taken. I do not think Moore will be drafted. I have seen a lot of Mock drafts and have yet to see one that has him drafted.

Comparing Lenny, Montana, Brady, Warner and Foutes to Moore undermines your credibility.

There's a difference between not having a 'great' arm and having a legitimately bad one. A lot of the guys you listed didn't have 'great arms' (though I'd disagree with you on a couple, its ultimately irrelevant). None of those guys had 'bad' arms, not even Joe Montana. Montana's 'weak' arm has become something of a revisionist argument. Montana's arm was generally considered to be average. It was by no means Marino's, but his arm strength was seen as acceptable, just not stellar.

Moore's is nowhere close to that. Moore is Tyler Palko with a better head on his shoulders.

That won't play at this level.

[Direckshun]

Originally Posted by DaKCMan AP

He's tiny. Will probably measure shorter than his listed height at the combine.

And lighter.

Eyeballing the guy, I'd put him at Todd Reising measurables.

That won't work in the NFL.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

The whole argument about the defense doesn't make sense at all. The only thing the offense does that should affect the D is how many times it's going 3 and out. If the offense is having success, the D will not suffer. And in case you haven't noticed, through those final few games, the Chiefs became more of a pressure Defense. Blitzes became quite a bit more frequent. If that even matters. Which, IMO, it won't.

And I'm not saying you should abandon the running game. You seem to think a timing offense can't co-exist with a running game. I disagree.

NO had the 6th rushing attack in the league. Shit just doesn't work in the NFL.........................................................................................

[Boise_Chief]

coming from a guy who's watched every snap of his college career, the biggest plus for moore is he's the smartest guy on the field. Easily 50 percent of his interceptions in college were on batted or tipped balls. he simply doesn't do reeruned things like holding on to the ball. He is the anti cassel and a steal in the 4th. the knocks on accuracy are by people don't watch him play. More later typing on my phone sucks.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

The whole argument about the defense doesn't make sense at all. The only thing the offense does that should affect the D is how many times it's going 3 and out. If the offense is having success, the D will not suffer. And in case you haven't noticed, through those final few games, the Chiefs became more of a pressure Defense. Blitzes became quite a bit more frequent. If that even matters. Which, IMO, it won't.

And I'm not saying you should abandon the running game. You seem to think a timing offense can't co-exist with a running game. I disagree.

If you're going to operate a timing offense and maintain a running game, you need to have the ball a lot. If you're going to have the ball a lot, you have to take it away or give up quick scores.

That's why the Saints offense works so well - they're on the field a ton. They are able to stay in rhythm and get a lot of snaps to keep their passing timing sharp while also maintaining a credible running threat. They do that by being extremely aggressive and forcing turnovers. If they don't force a turnover or sack to generate a quick punt, they'll give up a long score by getting burned deep. The Pats did the same thing this year, so did the Packers.

If you're running a 2-gap scheme like Romeo, you're simply not going to be a hyper-aggressive defense. You're going to fall into those bend but don't break shells that keep your offense off the field. They cost you a bunch of offensive snaps each game and that, in turn, diminishes your timing in passing offenses as well as the opportunities you have to run the football.

To say that your offense and defense operate independently is, to be blunt, completely asinine. It's the kind of shit that Grandpa Dick adhered to and frankly it's just not correct. Your defense needs to complement your offense for your team to truly excel. If you're going to run an aggressive offense, your defense needs to be the same animal. If you're going to run a conservative offense, well you can't have a defense getting beat deep twice /gm either trying to force a turnover (the Rams will soon learn this; Jeff Fisher with Greg Williams as his DC is a disaster waiting to happen).

If your argument is that we should try to develop a team with a super-aggressive defense and a high-volume offense like the Saints - alright, I'll listen. That said, all the teams that try that have truly historical quality quarterbacks on their teams. I'm not talking mere pro-bowlers or even All-Pros, but guys that will go down in the annals of the game as legitimate legends. Those don't exactly grow on trees.

If you build an offense to perform around Moore, you'll need to build a defense to compliment him. I don't see Crennel suddenly becoming blitz-happy (though I'd favor it).

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by jd1020

NO had the 6th rushing attack in the league. Shit just doesn't work in the NFL.........................................................................................

Volume offense that had the ball a lot because of an aggressive defense - it actually supports my point quite well.

And again, Drew Brees is a superstar. Kellen Moore is Kellen Moore. Trying to draw legitimate comparisons between the two is like comparing Thomas Jones to Emmitt Smith because he's short, slow and muscular.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Volume offense that had the ball a lot because of an aggressive defense - it actually supports my point quite well.

And again, Drew Brees is a superstar. Kellen Moore is Kellen Moore. Trying to draw legitimate comparisons between the two is like comparing Thomas Jones to next Emmitt Smith because he's short, slow and muscular.

Because NO's offense was only good because of the defense getting them the ball....

Plain stupidity.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by jd1020

Because NO's offense was only good because of the defense getting them the ball....

Plain stupidity.

Ah, straw men in lieu of substantive rebuttal. Eh, it's still better than your position that Kellen Moore is worthy of a 3rd round pick and can actually be a winning NFL quarterback.

If you think New Orleans defense wasn't built precisely to strengthen the effectiveness of their offense, you know precisely jack-shit about this game.

Defenses and offenses have to be complimentary. To miss that point is to have my wife's understanding of the sport.

[OzarksChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

There's a difference between not having a 'great' arm and having a legitimately bad one. A lot of the guys you listed didn't have 'great arms' (though I'd disagree with you on a couple, its ultimately irrelevant). None of those guys had 'bad' arms, not even Joe Montana. Montana's 'weak' arm has become something of a revisionist argument. Montana's arm was generally considered to be average. It was by no means Marino's, but his arm strength was seen as acceptable, just not stellar.

Moore's is nowhere close to that. Moore is Tyler Palko with a better head on his shoulders.

That won't play at this level.

Montana was rated as average arm strength with no touch. Walsh ignored his own scouts. I saw Lenny play often and he did not have a strong arm. I'll admit that some of those guys including Brady have proven to have better arms than the scouts thought. Guys can get stronger. The game has changed but there will always be guys who break the mold and get it done when their measurements say they shouldn't. Kurt Warner had incredible timing but he was slow footed and lacked arm strength. Even now when I watch Brees I see that his arm leaves a lot to be desired except the ball gets to the receiver on time. Our point of contention is that I want to turn every stone in the search for a QB and you want them to fit into " Marty's measurables." Something that Rich Gannon couldn't do.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Ah, straw men in lieu of substantive rebuttal. Eh, it's still better than your position that Kellen Moore is worthy of a 3rd round pick and can actually be a winning NFL quarterback.

If you think New Orleans defense wasn't built precisely to strengthen the effectiveness of their offense, you know precisely jack-shit about this game.

Defenses and offenses have to be complimentary. To miss that point is to have my wife's understanding of the sport.

Your argument is about as solid as swiss cheese.

[whoman69]

Unless Pioli surprises us and can move up the draft, nobody we get this year is going to be ready to move in immediately despite our immediate need. Moore does need to work on his arm. He's not Tyler Palko as he can throw over 10 yards, but I didn't see anything to tell me he has a deep ball beyond 15 yards.