Smoking Ban!!!

[Halfcan]

Full Smoking ban in Fairway KS.


Does anyone care?

[jAZ]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

I agree that everyone seems to have an agenda.. which is why I try to ignore the conclusions of the studies and just look at the figures (and methods used to obtain them) ... I have yet to see a single study that shows me anything close to proof that ETS is a significant risk factor.

I assume that you admit that you reach this conclusion based upon your agenda (that you admit you have).

[jAZ]

Originally Posted by Cochise

Damnit jAZ resize that pic

Already done.

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by angel

if second-hand smoke doesn't do anything to me,
then why do I leave smoke-filled bars with watery eyes, stomach ache and sore throats all the time?
anytime I'm around someone who is smoking, I try not to let it bother me, but ultimately, I end up with these symptoms.

Some people are very sensitive to smoke.. any kind of smoke... The symptoms (watery eyes, sore throat due to mucous drainage and stomach ache from the drainage as well) are a typical allergic response but it isn't an actual health risk.

If I had Bell's Palsy (which causes hyperacusis or sensitive hearing) I would not like going to noisy bars with loud bands... but I wouldn't presume to make a law about it... I would just go to bars that are less noisy.

--Kyle

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by jAZ

I assume that you admit that you reach this conclusion based upon your agenda (that you admit you have).

Of course, but the burden of proof is on those wanting to create new laws and take away rights.

[jAZ]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

Of course, but the burden of proof is on those wanting to create new laws and take away rights.

Fair enough, but those who have their own agenda of opposition to this change (such as yourself) will likely have an inaccurately high burden of proof so as to protect their agenda.

That's why I propose the Space Suit solution. You retain your property right (if that's what it is) and I retain my right not to smoke involutarily in the same public forum you claim a right to smoke.

As an aside, what do smokers think about littering laws? Should the same property rights allow you to toss out your big mac wrapper onto the streets, or should the public have the right to restrict such actions by law?

[NewChief]

Unfortunately, I'm not enough of a scientist to decipher numbers, so I have to go by what conclusions of studies. Here's some studies I found that seem to point to health problems being linked to ETS.
http://www.arb.ca.gov/toxics/ets/fin...inalreport.htm

Yes, I realize they're by the People's Republic of California. Sorry. Still seem to be pretty thorough.

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by jAZ

Fair enough, but those who have their own agenda of opposition to this change (such as yourself) will likely have an inaccurately high burden of proof so as to protect their agenda.

That's why I propose the Space Suit solution. You retain your property right (if that's what it is) and I retain my right not to smoke involutarily in the same public forum you claim a right to smoke.

As an aside, what do smokers think about littering laws? Should the same property rights allow you to toss out your big mac wrapper onto the streets, or should the public have the right to restrict such actions by law?

It isn't the SMOKERS rights .. no one has a "right" to smoke... it is the PROPERTY RIGHTS OF THE BAR OWNER.

Littering is perfectly legal if it is on PRIVATE property and sanctioned by the owner of said property.

[Bob Dole]

Originally Posted by angel

if second-hand smoke doesn't do anything to me,
then why do I leave smoke-filled bars with watery eyes, stomach ache and sore throats all the time?
anytime I'm around someone who is smoking, I try not to let it bother me, but ultimately, I end up with these symptoms.

Oddly enough, most women's perfume has the same effect on Bob Dole.

[angel]

Originally Posted by Saul Dole

Oddly enough, most women's perfume has the same effect on Bob Dole.

yeah, perfume and cologne give me a stomach ache- but not the scratchy throat

[BIG_DADDY]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

It isn't the SMOKERS rights .. no one has a "right" to smoke... it is the PROPERTY RIGHTS OF THE BAR OWNER.

Littering is perfectly legal if it is on PRIVATE property and sanctioned by the owner of said property.

Having had this law in The Peoples Republic of California for some time now I have to say I like not having to smell cigarette smoke all the time. That being said I still don't think it is right to force owners to comply with a law like that.

[jAZ]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

It isn't the SMOKERS rights .. no one has a "right" to smoke... it is the PROPERTY RIGHTS OF THE BAR OWNER.

Littering is perfectly legal if it is on PRIVATE property and sanctioned by the owner of said property.

Remember that the owner surrenders some absolute property rights when they choose to open their property to the public for commericial purposes. It's not like the owner of the building or the business is just inviting friends and family over to drink his liquor (or BYOB). He's operating a publicly authorized (and sanctioned) commericial venture.

The absolute property rights that you are citing are somewhat limited once you open a commerical venture that exists solely to sell products to the general public. Banning smoking in such a venue is just a different such limitiation.

[jAZ]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

Littering is perfectly legal if it is on PRIVATE property and sanctioned by the owner of said property.

Also, should I take this to mean that you are OK with the public banning smoking on public property (freeways, city streets, publicly owned sidewalks, inside and out of gov't buildings, etc)?

[Extra Point]

I promise not to smoke in Fairway restaurants. I also promise not to combust, nor explode.

[Eleazar]

Go vote on my poll, smoking debators:
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=129055

[Eleazar]

Originally Posted by angel

yeah, perfume and cologne give me a stomach ache- but not the scratchy throat

All kinds of cologne? Or just too much or the overdone kinds?

The really light kinds of womens' perfume I like, but the heavier ones (like the older ladies here at the office wear) might as well be a metric ton of pollen sitting next to me.