GRETZ: Gunther still a loon

[Hammock Parties]

http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2007/06...her_manifesto/

GRETZ: Living the Gunther Manifesto
Jun 04, 2007, 8:53:44 AM by Bob Gretz - FAQ

Gunther Cunningham smiles a lot these days.

Events like this past weekend’s mini-camp can generate even more smiles from the Chiefs defensive coordinator.

“We’ve got something building here,” Cunningham said. “This is what I was talking about, this is what I wanted to do when I came back here. I wanted to bring defense back to Kansas City.”

This is the fourth season Cunningham will be in charge of the defense in his second tour of duty with the team. When he came back to join Dick Vermeil’s staff in 2004, he found a defense in tatters on the field, on the roster and in the minds of just about everyone at Arrowhead Stadium. There was no longer a defensive culture in the building.

That was far different from Cunningham’s first trip through Arrowhead. When he arrived in 1995, defense ruled the roost for the Chiefs under Marty Schottenheimer. Cunningham added to that as defensive coordinator.

All that was gone by 2004 and Cunningham’s frustration grew on a daily basis. Whatever emotion comes after the feeling of beating your head against a brick wall is where he resided on most days. There was marginal talent, no fire and no defensive attitude. He had been through many things in over 30 years of coaching, but nothing sapped his energy and passion more than the 2004 and 2005 seasons. That overwhelming frustration led to the “Gunther Manifesto.”

Cunningham poured out his feelings by producing an eight-page document called simply: “Culture of the Chiefs Defense.” It was a game plan on how to change the prevailing attitudes he found at Arrowhead Stadium when it came to his side of the football. Only a handful of people have seen the full manifesto, and it won’t be coming to a Barnes & Noble any time soon. It begins with three simple statements:

1. The embedded beliefs, values and behavior patterns carry tremendous voltage.
2. It doesn’t make sense to try to change culture according to the old rules.
3. The rules themselves are part of the problem.

The rules changed last year when Herm Edwards became head coach. Now, as the team prepares for the second season of the Edwards Era, there has been a huge culture shift on the team, and especially on the defense.

Production and performance improved on that side of the football in 2006, as the Chiefs climbed from the lower ranks of the league to the middle of the pack.

But mediocre is not something that satisfies Edwards and Cunningham. They want more, much more. This isn’t about just one game, or one season. This is about re-establishing a defensive culture.

Right now, still three months from the start of the 2007 season, the Chiefs are much closer to realizing the theme of the Gunther Manifesto.

“The first priority was to get some tough guys and I think that first draft last year is the keynote of the plan,” said Cunningham. “We got Tamba (Hali), Jarrad (Page) and Bernard (Pollard.)

“This year, we knew what we wanted out of the draft on defense. We believe we have dotted the I’s and crossed the T’s by the type of people we are getting. Each guy we drafted fits not only the overall personality of what this defense is going to be, but the personality of the head coach and all the assistants and definitely what I believe.”

The turnover has been dramatic. Just check out the defensive starters from the opener two years ago to the projected starters for this season’s opener in Houston:



(Author’s note: the projected starters for the ‘07 opener were not named by Edwards or Cunningham. They are my assessment.)

Right now there are only two defensive players still on the roster who were part of the team before Cunningham returned: Wesley and defensive lineman Jimmy Wilkerson.

“We’ve looked at a lot of players, at a lot of tape and there was a commitment made by Carl (Peterson) and Bill Kuharich (VP of player personnel) to find us players,” Cunningham said.

“But the guy making it go is Herm.”

Coming on Wednesday: More about the Chiefs defense and the seemingly unlikely football marriage of Herm Edwards and Gunther Cunningham

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by el borracho

You are correct about Allen, Surtain and Johnson- they are better players than Wesley. The rest seem about equal, maybe worse in some cases. Wesley does have a lot of interceptions over his career and he was at one time a big hitter. He isn't great now but I think he had more impact on our team than Fujita, Dalton and Knight. In any case, I was (and still am) glad that we re-signed Wesley back then even if it is now time for him to go. Hicks and Woods were much bigger mistakes.

I guess people aren't watching the same games I am.

Because Wesley has been less than adequate for about 7 years.

At any rate, my point is proven.

We're arguing about whether or not he was the WORST player on our defense.

The original post was that he was "arguably the BEST player on our defense" and the discussion here has left no question that that statement is false.

[bdeg]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

"arguably"

Know what that word means?

IT COULD BE ARGUED that Wesley was CLOSER to "worst" than he was to "best" on that defense.

If you wanna get technical, I thought arguably the worst meant it could be argued that he was the worst. I don't know where this "closer to worst than best" nonsense is coming from. Middle of the pack is a long way from "arguably the worst."

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by bdeg

If you wanna get technical, I thought arguably the worst meant it could be argued that he was the worst. I don't know where this "closer to worst than best" nonsense is coming from. Middle of the pack is a long way from "arguably the worst."

Originally Posted by el borracho

Of those three Hicks was the only obvious stinker at that time. Wesley was arguably our best defensive player and Woods actually made the Pro Bowl around that time.

We've spent the better part of the morning arguing about whether or not Wesley was the WORST player on the defense, thus proving that the bolded quote above is incorrect.

[el borracho]

What? Where did I say he was the worst? I don't agree with that at all. I conceded that 1 player was better than him in 2004 and 3 players were better than him in 2005. That does not mean he was the worst.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by el borracho

What? Where did I say he was the worst? I don't agree with that at all. I conceded that 1 player was better than him in 2004 and 3 players were better than him in 2005. That does not mean he was the worst.

You said he was arguably the BEST.

I said he wasn't.

And we proceeded to argue about whether or not he was the WORST, proving my point.

[Wile_E_Coyote]

He coached up Mitchell. Wanted Knight & no part of Hartwell. [edit] He had the choice between a injured Bell or Hartwell. In hindsight, it's hard to fault the choice IMO[edit]

His HC stint left alot of ? for fans. "What this team needs is more me" or close to that. goodnight

[el borracho]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

You said he was arguably the BEST.

I said he wasn't.

And we proceeded to argue about whether or not he was the WORST, proving my point.

Wow. Usually I understand your thinking even if I don't always agree. This time I am at a loss. We never argued about him being the worst. I don't think Wesley has ever been even remotely close to the worst player on our defense. IMO, he was one of the best players on our defense for a couple of years. 2nd to Allen does not make him the worst. 4th behind Allen, Surtain and Johnson does not make him the worst.

At any rate, I'm not sure any of this matters now. Wesley is likely gone to a backup role or gone completely from the roster.

[ct]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

We've spent the better part of the morning arguing about whether or not Wesley was the WORST player on the defense, thus proving that the bolded quote above is incorrect.

I could also state a claim that htismaqe is arguably the worst mod in the history of intranet BBs. If we spend a few moments arguing, whether or not my statements holds a friggin drop of water still confirms my claim. All it really proves is you knew how to push someones button to start an argument, thereby making your statement arguable.

[go bo]

dr. phil?

is that really you?

[Kerberos]

Originally Posted by coryt

I could also state a claim that htismaqe is arguably the worst mod in the history of intranet BBs. If we spend a few moments arguing, whether or not my statements holds a friggin drop of water still confirms my claim. All it really proves is you knew how to push someones button to start an argument, thereby making your statement arguable.

Brutal

Originally Posted by go bo

dr. phil?

is that really you?

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by el borracho

Wow. Usually I understand your thinking even if I don't always agree. This time I am at a loss. We never argued about him being the worst. I don't think Wesley has ever been even remotely close to the worst player on our defense. IMO, he was one of the best players on our defense for a couple of years. 2nd to Allen does not make him the worst. 4th behind Allen, Surtain and Johnson does not make him the worst.

At any rate, I'm not sure any of this matters now. Wesley is likely gone to a backup role or gone completely from the roster.

I see where the confusion has come from.

My initial post stated that Wesley could arguably be the worst player on the defense. Probably not a good thing to say on my part.

I should have just said that Wesley was never the best player on the defense, it's not arguable at all, and left it at that.

That was my only point.

Furthermore, it's just flat out sad that the Chiefs defense was SO bad that we're fighting about Greg Wesley. He's an 8-year veteran starter and still doesn't know how to cover a zone. Only in KC.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by coryt

I could also state a claim that htismaqe is arguably the worst mod in the history of intranet BBs. If we spend a few moments arguing, whether or not my statements holds a friggin drop of water still confirms my claim. All it really proves is you knew how to push someones button to start an argument, thereby making your statement arguable.

Nice try.

[CupidStunt]

What a crock of shit. Stop moving the goal posts, htis. You said, non-plural, that Wesley was arguably our worst defensive player. Bottom line is that he was never even close to THE worst defensive player. There has always been a good one or two players that were INARGUABLY worse than him.

To go back to the guy you quoted, yes - he's correct; there's absolutely ZERO doubt that Hicks was a worse player than Wesley, therefore there is NO argument that Wesley was our worst defensive player.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by lj4mvp

What a crock of shit. Stop moving the goal posts, htis. You said, non-plural, that Wesley was arguably our worst defensive player. Bottom line is that he was never even close to THE worst defensive player. There has always been a good one or two players that were INARGUABLY worse than him.

To go back to the guy you quoted, yes - he's correct; there's absolutely ZERO doubt that Hicks was a worse player than Wesley, therefore there is NO argument that Wesley was our worst defensive player.

I already conceded. Maybe you should learn to read before you post.

[shaneo69]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

I see where the confusion has come from.

My initial post stated that Wesley could arguably be the worst player on the defense. Probably not a good thing to say on my part.

I should have just said that Wesley was never the best player on the defense, it's not arguable at all, and left it at that.

That was my only point.

Furthermore, it's just flat out sad that the Chiefs defense was SO bad that we're fighting about Greg Wesley. He's an 8-year veteran starter and still doesn't know how to cover a zone. Only in KC.

Nice backtracking.