4 games in, how is Brodie progressing as a QB - Page 5

Wile_E_Coyote · 12-17-2007, 12:18 PM

poll
scale of one to ten

**BigMeatballDave** · 12-17-2007, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micjones

Elway was taken #1 overall.
They had to afford him a different type of commitment.

Favre was also taken higher than Croyle.

Croyle was a Third Round pick.
We don't owe him the same kind of commitment.

Sorry, this rationale is plain stupid.

**BigMeatballDave** · 12-17-2007, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR

Matt Ryan will be the biggest QB bust since B. Buster Bustyface McBust graduated from the University of Minnesota with a major in busting NFL franchises and a minor in philosophy, and when he was drafted, his first words to the camera were "Super Bowl or BUST!"

Bank on it.

Micjones · 12-17-2007, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigChiefDave

Sorry, this rationale is plain stupid.

Elaborate...

Don't strain yourself BCD.
I'd hate for you to have to offer a well thought out rebuttal.

Clearly players drafted in the First Round are afforded more time to develop than middle rounders... To argue with that logic is to well...show how little you know about the NFL.

FAX · 12-17-2007, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micjones

Elaborate...

Don't strain yourself BCD.
I'd hate for you to have to offer a well thought out rebuttal.

Clearly players drafted in the First Round are afforded more time to develop than middle rounders... To argue with that logic is to well...show how little you know about the NFL.

It's true that 1st rounders represent more of a commitment and, therefore, more of a potential bust - in terms of total bust magnitude, Mr. Micjones. But, let's turn this thing around a little.

What is it that you could have seen from Croyle that would convince you he has potential? Wins?

FAX

**BigMeatballDave** · 12-17-2007, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micjones

Elaborate...

Don't strain yourself BCD.
I'd hate for you to have to offer a well thought out rebuttal.

Clearly players drafted in the First Round are afforded more time to develop than middle rounders... To argue with that logic is to well...show how little you know about the NFL.

Correct, I'd give a 1st round QB 2 full seasons, maybe 3. That would depend on the talent level around them. Surely, Croyle deserves ONE full season. Not to mention the fact that the current line sucks. Upgrade the line next season, and give him a shot. He's played well enough in this crap offense to warrant a starting position next season.

**Anyong Bluth** · 12-17-2007, 06:27 PM

What I'm going to say probably anything new that someone hasn't already touched on but here's my logic:

You want to bench a QB after 4 starts, when he's shown the ability to make plays

Having no O-line hasn't helped him in being able to take any significant 3/5/7 step drop plays- yet, he has still on occasion shown signs of getting better at his pocket presence and shifting around to buy that second or 2.

A significantly hampered running game hasn't lent Brodie any advantage of opposing defenses having to stack the box, and has allowed them to take advantage of playing the pass with more 2ndary.

Drops by WR's have been a constant problem the entire season, and his number reflect even poorer because of this. I say this, even though there have been time he has been afforded the luxury of having Tony and Bowe occasionally simply play jump ball for a pass, but the drops still grossly outweigh even these positives.

Brodie has had a number of picks, been sacked, and fumbled the ball away, but I don't feel they are at some alarming rate that a young QB, with 4 starts under his belt, wouldn't likely be expected to make. Compared to his preseason play, where he seemed to chuck the ball up there with little regard for the consequences vs NFL secondaries, to now, I'd say he's progressed in his propensity for tossing INT's. This isn't a 9 year vet like Plummer or someone who simply can't ever seem to stop turning the ball over. You gotta give him time, and some of the sacks he took that were his fault when he 1st started, I think he has shown improvement in his pocket presence, sliding to avoid the rush & knowing when to get rid of the ball.

As mentioned before, Tony and Eddie have both had positive comments about his play, and even Shanahan when interviewed before the Donkey's game had very positive things to say. I don't have the quotes, but it was something along the lines of, "He has all the tools to be a top notch QB and has demonstrated he has the potential to be a franchise QB." He then did mention that he thought he graded out as a 1st round talent but that people had concerns b/c of his 2 knee surgeries and his height / weight probably being the only reason he wasn't a 1st round pick."

Take what you want from it, but if you asshats want to bench him after 4 games when he has the ability to become a solid QB, you're only telling me that you don't understand the time it takes for a QB to get adjusted to the NFL. ( We've had other threads showcasing that pretty much every QB worth shit has their growing pains)
Second, drafting a QB right now makes ZERO sense. There are not top flight, once in a decade lock prospect coming out this year.
Third, why the F%CK would you want to draft a QB when you're going to put them behind the same horrible offensive setup, and then bitch that he's a bust if / when he has similar results.
Fourth, the the hell wouldn't you want to take next year to see what you've got in your young QB, surround him with better talent (hopefully) and then evaluate after he has a season to showcase if its time to go for a QB.. If Brodie does suck that bad, what do you think the chances are of this team being much better next year? Not much, so you will most likely be sitting with a high draft position to go after a QB, again.

Any reason you think that Cleveland took an OT with their 3 pick last year and then jumped on Quinn when he slid? Probably, b/c any dunce knows you rarely can find a successful QB in the NFL when he's flat on his ass or laid up in traction b/c no one can block for him.

Repeat after me people... You build any successful O or D starting in the trenches. The games are won in the trenches.

I digress, I'm a big Brodie fan and will continue to be b/c it takes time to groom a young QB- something that many here do not understand b/c as a Chiefs fan we haven't done that since the Nixon era, successfully at least.

Micjones · 12-17-2007, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAX

It's true that 1st rounders represent more of a commitment and, therefore, more of a potential bust - in terms of total bust magnitude, Mr. Micjones. But, let's turn this thing around a little.

What is it that you could have seen from Croyle that would convince you he has potential? Wins?

FAX

Nothing honestly aside from his physical abilities.

Micjones · 12-17-2007, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigChiefDave

Correct, I'd give a 1st round QB 2 full seasons, maybe 3. That would depend on the talent level around them. Surely, Croyle deserves ONE full season. Not to mention the fact that the current line sucks. Upgrade the line next season, and give him a shot. He's played well enough in this crap offense to warrant a starting position next season.

He had time to throw yesterday...
And he played well for most of the game.
Things went South quickly though down the stretch.

I'm not ready to write him off yet.
Again... Come and see me in 2 more games.

Coach · 12-17-2007, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cocina_Basement

Repeat after me people... You build any successful O or D starting in the trenches. The games are won in the trenches.

Yep. As I been saying all along, the skill positions benefits from the line. If the line is good, so will the skill positions, becuase of the fact that the line is doing well.

And if the line is doing piss-poor, then the skill positions suffer becuase of it.

Hydrae · 12-17-2007, 06:34 PM

I can not vote because I have not been able to see any of the games in which he has played. But everything sounds like he is steadily improving which is all you can really ask at this point.

We have too many other holes on this team to spend a 1st round pick on a position that "may" be a need down the road. Take the BPAPON (Best Player Available in a Position Of Need)

**Anyong Bluth** · 12-17-2007, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach

Yep. As I been saying all along, the skill positions benefits from the line. If the line is good, so will the skill positions, becuase of the fact that the line is doing well.

And if the line is doing piss-poor, then the skill positions suffer becuase of it.

It's the old adage that the only time you hear about an Offensive lineman is when he ****s up is true- sans our line a few years ago, when we would line up in the same sets, basically telling the D where we were planning on violating them, their sister, and any other relative in our way, and still gash them for yards. See: off guard (Waters) or Off tackle when Weigman would pull, or Dunn would chip and seal. We didn't give a F^CK if you knew it was coming b/c we knew you weren't going to stop chit.

Think back to Ray Lewis miked up talking about being double and triple teamed all night, and bitching on the sidelines, even though Waters flat out pancaked him solo on a TD run.

**BigMeatballDave** · 12-17-2007, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach

Yep. As I been saying all along, the skill positions benefits from the line. If the line is good, so will the skill positions, becuase of the fact that the line is doing well.

And if the line is doing piss-poor, then the skill positions suffer becuase of it.

e.g. 2003 Chiefs Offense.

Mr. Laz · 12-17-2007, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cocina_Basement

Repeat after me people... You build any successful O or D starting in the trenches. The games are won in the trenches.

repeat after me ...... the performance of the Oline greatly depends on how they are coached and how good the scheme.

FAX · 12-17-2007, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micjones

Nothing honestly aside from his physical abilities.

Fair enough. So based on what you've seen so far, what specific physical abilities are you convinced that Croyle does not possess, Mr. Micjones?

Oh. And, by the way, repeat after me ... boom lacka lacka lacka.

FAX

**Anyong Bluth** · 12-17-2007, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laz

repeat after me ...... the performance of the Oline greatly depends on how they are coached and how good the scheme.

It plays a part, but Jordan Black last year was simply a small taste of the nasty state that is currently our O-line's state.

I can't coach up scrubs anymore than I can take a piece of shit and paint it gold- it's not a gold bar, now, just a piece of gold painted shit.

View Poll Results: Rate Croyle's progression
10-progessing into Montana	6	5.61%
9	1	0.93%
8	24	22.43%
7	34	31.78%
6	23	21.50%
5-treading water/Gaz option	13	12.15%
4	2	1.87%
3	2	1.87%
2	1	0.93%
1-regressing into Leaf	2	1.87%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 107. You may not vote on this poll

12-17-2007, 12:18 PM
Wile_E_Coyote avatar down for remodel Join Date: Jul 2001 Casino cash: $10004900	4 games in, how is Brodie progressing as a QB poll scale of one to ten
Posts: 6,009

12-17-2007, 06:27 PM	#66
Anyong Bluth Deus ambulans inter homines Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago Casino cash: $9649340	What I'm going to say probably anything new that someone hasn't already touched on but here's my logic: You want to bench a QB after 4 starts, when he's shown the ability to make plays Having no O-line hasn't helped him in being able to take any significant 3/5/7 step drop plays- yet, he has still on occasion shown signs of getting better at his pocket presence and shifting around to buy that second or 2. A significantly hampered running game hasn't lent Brodie any advantage of opposing defenses having to stack the box, and has allowed them to take advantage of playing the pass with more 2ndary. Drops by WR's have been a constant problem the entire season, and his number reflect even poorer because of this. I say this, even though there have been time he has been afforded the luxury of having Tony and Bowe occasionally simply play jump ball for a pass, but the drops still grossly outweigh even these positives. Brodie has had a number of picks, been sacked, and fumbled the ball away, but I don't feel they are at some alarming rate that a young QB, with 4 starts under his belt, wouldn't likely be expected to make. Compared to his preseason play, where he seemed to chuck the ball up there with little regard for the consequences vs NFL secondaries, to now, I'd say he's progressed in his propensity for tossing INT's. This isn't a 9 year vet like Plummer or someone who simply can't ever seem to stop turning the ball over. You gotta give him time, and some of the sacks he took that were his fault when he 1st started, I think he has shown improvement in his pocket presence, sliding to avoid the rush & knowing when to get rid of the ball. As mentioned before, Tony and Eddie have both had positive comments about his play, and even Shanahan when interviewed before the Donkey's game had very positive things to say. I don't have the quotes, but it was something along the lines of, "He has all the tools to be a top notch QB and has demonstrated he has the potential to be a franchise QB." He then did mention that he thought he graded out as a 1st round talent but that people had concerns b/c of his 2 knee surgeries and his height / weight probably being the only reason he wasn't a 1st round pick." Take what you want from it, but if you asshats want to bench him after 4 games when he has the ability to become a solid QB, you're only telling me that you don't understand the time it takes for a QB to get adjusted to the NFL. ( We've had other threads showcasing that pretty much every QB worth shit has their growing pains) Second, drafting a QB right now makes ZERO sense. There are not top flight, once in a decade lock prospect coming out this year. Third, why the F%CK would you want to draft a QB when you're going to put them behind the same horrible offensive setup, and then bitch that he's a bust if / when he has similar results. Fourth, the the hell wouldn't you want to take next year to see what you've got in your young QB, surround him with better talent (hopefully) and then evaluate after he has a season to showcase if its time to go for a QB.. If Brodie does suck that bad, what do you think the chances are of this team being much better next year? Not much, so you will most likely be sitting with a high draft position to go after a QB, again. Any reason you think that Cleveland took an OT with their 3 pick last year and then jumped on Quinn when he slid? Probably, b/c any dunce knows you rarely can find a successful QB in the NFL when he's flat on his ass or laid up in traction b/c no one can block for him. Repeat after me people... You build any successful O or D starting in the trenches. The games are won in the trenches. I digress, I'm a big Brodie fan and will continue to be b/c it takes time to groom a young QB- something that many here do not understand b/c as a Chiefs fan we haven't done that since the Nixon era, successfully at least. __________________ Suck it, *beautiful*
Posts: 14,918

12-17-2007, 06:34 PM	#70
Hydrae Sandbox: Leander Lasercats Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Austin, Tx Casino cash: $1867000	I can not vote because I have not been able to see any of the games in which he has played. But everything sounds like he is steadily improving which is all you can really ask at this point. We have too many other holes on this team to spend a 1st round pick on a position that "may" be a need down the road. Take the BPAPON (Best Player Available in a Position Of Need)
Posts: 14,706