Chiefs Matt Cassell -- My Assessment - Page 5

Amnorix · 02-28-2009, 04:15 PM

I've posted at some length about Cassell before in some no doubt long forgotten threads. Given the latest developments, however, I'll try to repeat my thoughts.

I think Matt Cassell has a better than average opportunity to succeed as a starting QB in the NFL. I think, therefore, he represents a much lower risk than nearly any pick that is taken in the draft.

Cassell's season with the Patriots last year showed much about him. It was really a tale of two seasons -- the early part, when he more or less stunk, and the latter part when he came into his own, the coaches and team played to his strengths and stayed away from his weaknesses, and the game clearly slowed down for him and he became more confident and capable in his position and play.

The GOOD:

1. Cassell CLEARLY has all the physical skills. He is big, tall, strong and tough. He takes a wallop and gets right back up. He has the arm strength to throw all the passes -- the deep out or the deep ball. He is reasonably shifty in the pocket (but note pocket presence/timing below) and has good speed in running out of the pocket. There is no physical limitation in his game.

2. Cassell appears to have good leadership skills. Everything I saw/read about Cassell suggests a mature and intelligent individual to whom the team responded. A veteran team, the Patriots players could have folded their tent on him, but he appeared to get the team to buy into him -- both coaches and other players.

3. He isn't a rookie. You may not appreciate this much, but rookies, whether QBs or any other NFL position players, take a hell of a lot of time to understand what the NFL is all about. It's relatively rare for players to have tremendous impact in their first years for precisely this reason. He not only isn't a rookie, but he has been well coached and has seen the best in the game conduct his business.

4. Patience/coachability. He clearly is very coachable. His tremendous improvement as 2008 went along is evidence of that, as well as all the statements made by the Patriots coaches and other players. He also took a beating early in the season, which was partly his fault and partly the fault of the OLine, but continued to progress and elevate his game.

The BAD:

1. He had no touch on the long ball. None. Whenever he went deep to Moss or anyone else, whether they were open or not, they were completely incapable of hooking up. I imagine that was a timing thing as much as anything, and it may be that having a full training camp/preseason to work on this will help tremendously, but I can't tell you how aggravating it was to see Moss 5 yards behind the entire defense running free and to have the ball overthrown, or whatever. It happened time and time again.

2. Timing/pocket presence. Although it got better as the year went along, Cassell took far too many sacks, held the ball too long, and didn't seem to have a good feel for the pocket. Note that this DID get better as teh year went along, and my main source of comparison was Tom Brady, who has about the best pocket presence since Dan Marino, so I may be a bit unreasonable here.

3. Needs the shotgun. As a result of item 2, above, the Patriots starting putting Cassell into the shotgun. ALOT. A whole lot. That definitely helped him quite a bit in terms of seeing/processing the field of play, making quicker decisions, avoiding sacks, etc., but the shotgun also limits the offensive playcalling a fair bit.

In summary, I think he has a better than average chance to be a high quality NFL starting QB. His ceiling is not yet determined, but I think it is quite high.

**The Bad Guy** · 02-28-2009, 04:48 PM

The Chiefs need to get one more threat at WR.

Just one.

I think Bradley could do a fine job in the slot with Franklin as the 4.

If they stay at 3, take Curry.

If they trade down, explore what WRs are available.

LB, WR, OL are the 3 biggest weaknesses on this team now with them shifting to a 3-4.

Mile High Mania · 02-28-2009, 04:50 PM

By the way... I think the acquisition of Cassell was a solid move.

MTG#10 · 02-28-2009, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

He better peform like the guy who wore #16 here instead of the one who wore #10.

Yeah, Trent Green sucked.

Frazod · 02-28-2009, 04:53 PM

I guess the only question I have for Amnorix and the rest of the Pats fans is this - are you pissed that's he's not on your team anymore?

Frazod · 02-28-2009, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

He better peform like the guy who wore #16 here instead of the one who wore #10.

Yeah, because leading the best offense in football totally sucked.

Seriously, if you don't appreciate what Trent Green did for the Chiefs, you're dumber than a box of shit.

IT'S NOT TRENT GREEN'S FAULT THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE A DEFENSE.

**Rausch** · 02-28-2009, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frazod

I guess the only question I have for Amnorix and the rest of the Pats fans is this - are you pissed that's he's not on your team anymore?

Not likely.

If we'd just won 3 and been in 4 SB's in the last decade would we care if we traded off our b/u QB and an old LB?...

'Hamas' Jenkins · 02-28-2009, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy

The Chiefs need to get one more threat at WR.

Just one.

I think Bradley could do a fine job in the slot with Franklin as the 4.

If they stay at 3, take Curry.

If they trade down, explore what WRs are available.

LB, WR, OL are the 3 biggest weaknesses on this team now with them shifting to a 3-4.

Bradley isn't quick enough to work in the slot.

If you really want to build this team around Cassel, you need to find a way to get a team like SF or Jax to trade up for a QB, and take a guy like Maclin or DHB.

DenverChief · 02-28-2009, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Flopnuts

I figured you could add that to your sig. Circle of life and all.

You got it

tomahawk kid · 02-28-2009, 05:00 PM

Ammorix,

I could see you and I sitting down for a nice bowl of "chowda" and downing several Sam Adams.

Thanks for the info.....

tomahawk kid · 02-28-2009, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy

The Chiefs need to get one more threat at WR.

Just one.

I think Bradley could do a fine job in the slot with Franklin as the 4.

If they stay at 3, take Curry.

If they trade down, explore what WRs are available.

LB, WR, OL are the 3 biggest weaknesses on this team now with them shifting to a 3-4.

If Curry is gone, you take Crabby at 3 or try and trade down and still take Maclin (totally biased on that one).....

CupidStunt · 02-28-2009, 05:17 PM

Good thread.

Here's where a lot of people go wrong with Cassel: he was never a scrub UFA who barely got recruited out of HS and ended up playing for Louisiana Tech. He was a decent prospect, described by Tom Lemming to be a "pro-style pocket passer with a very strong, accurate delivery." He was recruited by elite college programs, finally choosing one of the best - USC. There, he had the misfortune of playing at the same time as not one but TWO Heisman winners and top 10 draft picks. Come his pro day, he performed brilliantly and got himself on many team's draft boards. And the rest is history.

Look, I've got my doubts, I've got my concerns, but one thing I'm not worried about is natural talent. He's a 6'5", 230lber with a good arm, decent mobility and, apparently, a good head on his shoulders.

Let's see what happens.

**MahiMike** · 02-28-2009, 05:29 PM

My assessment is the same as every year; Give me a proven NFL QB over a chance on a rookie any day.

AND we still have our #3 overall pick!

HELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!

Amnorix · 02-28-2009, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

I saw every game. And, as I said, he needs to improve on the deep ball. However, it wasn't nearly as bad as you seemed to be implying it was. If I inferred incorrectly, my apologies.

Agree to disagree. I don't know how many passes he had that were 30+ yards in the air, but it didn't seem to be that many. And it often wasn't for lack of opportunity.

Amnorix · 02-28-2009, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frazod

I guess the only question I have for Amnorix and the rest of the Pats fans is this - are you pissed that's he's not on your team anymore?

"Pissed" No. We have Tom Brady and if he's about 85+% of what he normally is in 2009 and back to about 100% by 2010, then it's the obvious move to trade away the hopefully unnecessary backup for a high draft pick.

Also, we couldn't carry him. It's our bad luck that he was going into his contract year, which forced us to franchise him and do the tag-and-trade bit. I'd have been happier if his contract was up NEXT year and he rode pine this year until we felt more confident about Brady and his knee.

This path was chosen when we tagged him. I'm not sure I'm happy with Cassel+Vrabes for a high 2nd, however.

Amnorix · 02-28-2009, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CupidStunt

Good thread.

Here's where a lot of people go wrong with Cassel: he was never a scrub UFA who barely got recruited out of HS and ended up playing for Louisiana Tech. He was a decent prospect, described by Tom Lemming to be a "pro-style pocket passer with a very strong, accurate delivery." He was recruited by elite college programs, finally choosing one of the best - USC. There, he had the misfortune of playing at the same time as not one but TWO Heisman winners and top 10 draft picks. Come his pro day, he performed brilliantly and got himself on many team's draft boards. And the rest is history.

Look, I've got my doubts, I've got my concerns, but one thing I'm not worried about is natural talent. He's a 6'5", 230lber with a good arm, decent mobility and, apparently, a good head on his shoulders.

Let's see what happens.

The guy backed up:

1. CArson Palmer

2. Matt Leinhart

3. Tom Brady

How many guys would get starting time over those three? Answer -- DAMN few...

02-28-2009, 04:15 PM
Amnorix In BB I trust Join Date: May 2003 Location: Boston, Mass. Casino cash: $10029808	Matt Cassell -- My Assessment I've posted at some length about Cassell before in some no doubt long forgotten threads. Given the latest developments, however, I'll try to repeat my thoughts. I think Matt Cassell has a better than average opportunity to succeed as a starting QB in the NFL. I think, therefore, he represents a much lower risk than nearly any pick that is taken in the draft. Cassell's season with the Patriots last year showed much about him. It was really a tale of two seasons -- the early part, when he more or less stunk, and the latter part when he came into his own, the coaches and team played to his strengths and stayed away from his weaknesses, and the game clearly slowed down for him and he became more confident and capable in his position and play. The GOOD: 1. Cassell CLEARLY has all the physical skills. He is big, tall, strong and tough. He takes a wallop and gets right back up. He has the arm strength to throw all the passes -- the deep out or the deep ball. He is reasonably shifty in the pocket (but note pocket presence/timing below) and has good speed in running out of the pocket. There is no physical limitation in his game. 2. Cassell appears to have good leadership skills. Everything I saw/read about Cassell suggests a mature and intelligent individual to whom the team responded. A veteran team, the Patriots players could have folded their tent on him, but he appeared to get the team to buy into him -- both coaches and other players. 3. He isn't a rookie. You may not appreciate this much, but rookies, whether QBs or any other NFL position players, take a hell of a lot of time to understand what the NFL is all about. It's relatively rare for players to have tremendous impact in their first years for precisely this reason. He not only isn't a rookie, but he has been well coached and has seen the best in the game conduct his business. 4. Patience/coachability. He clearly is very coachable. His tremendous improvement as 2008 went along is evidence of that, as well as all the statements made by the Patriots coaches and other players. He also took a beating early in the season, which was partly his fault and partly the fault of the OLine, but continued to progress and elevate his game. The BAD: 1. He had no touch on the long ball. None. Whenever he went deep to Moss or anyone else, whether they were open or not, they were completely incapable of hooking up. I imagine that was a timing thing as much as anything, and it may be that having a full training camp/preseason to work on this will help tremendously, but I can't tell you how aggravating it was to see Moss 5 yards behind the entire defense running free and to have the ball overthrown, or whatever. It happened time and time again. 2. Timing/pocket presence. Although it got better as the year went along, Cassell took far too many sacks, held the ball too long, and didn't seem to have a good feel for the pocket. Note that this DID get better as teh year went along, and my main source of comparison was Tom Brady, who has about the best pocket presence since Dan Marino, so I may be a bit unreasonable here. 3. Needs the shotgun. As a result of item 2, above, the Patriots starting putting Cassell into the shotgun. ALOT. A whole lot. That definitely helped him quite a bit in terms of seeing/processing the field of play, making quicker decisions, avoiding sacks, etc., but the shotgun also limits the offensive playcalling a fair bit. In summary, I think he has a better than average chance to be a high quality NFL starting QB. His ceiling is not yet determined, but I think it is quite high.
Posts: 43,125

02-28-2009, 04:48 PM	#61
The Bad Guy Scott Pioli Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: The Copacobana Casino cash: $9373645	The Chiefs need to get one more threat at WR. Just one. I think Bradley could do a fine job in the slot with Franklin as the 4. If they stay at 3, take Curry. If they trade down, explore what WRs are available. LB, WR, OL are the 3 biggest weaknesses on this team now with them shifting to a 3-4. __________________
Posts: 23,212

02-28-2009, 04:50 PM	#62
Mile High Mania #triggering Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Tejas Casino cash: $3457229	By the way... I think the acquisition of Cassell was a solid move. __________________
Posts: 30,343

02-28-2009, 04:53 PM	#64
Frazod WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $2855085	I guess the only question I have for Amnorix and the rest of the Pats fans is this - are you pissed that's he's not on your team anymore?
Posts: 119,529

02-28-2009, 05:00 PM	#69
tomahawk kid Drunk in the Neighborhood Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Beating the War Drums Casino cash: $10001837	Ammorix, I could see you and I sitting down for a nice bowl of "chowda" and downing several Sam Adams. Thanks for the info.....
Posts: 5,974

02-28-2009, 05:17 PM	#71
CupidStunt offense > defense Join Date: Jul 2005 Casino cash: $2273332	Good thread. Here's where a lot of people go wrong with Cassel: he was never a scrub UFA who barely got recruited out of HS and ended up playing for Louisiana Tech. He was a decent prospect, described by Tom Lemming to be a "pro-style pocket passer with a very strong, accurate delivery." He was recruited by elite college programs, finally choosing one of the best - USC. There, he had the misfortune of playing at the same time as not one but TWO Heisman winners and top 10 draft picks. Come his pro day, he performed brilliantly and got himself on many team's draft boards. And the rest is history. Look, I've got my doubts, I've got my concerns, but one thing I'm not worried about is natural talent. He's a 6'5", 230lber with a good arm, decent mobility and, apparently, a good head on his shoulders. Let's see what happens.
Posts: 8,920

02-28-2009, 05:29 PM	#72
MahiMike He's Mahomie! Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Jax, FL Casino cash: $10023443	My assessment is the same as every year; Give me a proven NFL QB over a chance on a rookie any day. AND we still have our #3 overall pick! HELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!
Posts: 17,387