Cardinals The "Official" Cardinals Discussion Thread. - Page 52

**BigRedChief** · 07-07-2008, 07:05 AM

Figured that if we had one thread to discuss Cardinals "stuff" it would be easier to find. What do you think? Good idea?

'Hamas' Jenkins · 08-05-2008, 10:06 PM

I'm going to the game tomorrow. I'm thinking of wearing a paper bag with "Cardinal Bullpen Hat" written on it.

tk13 · 08-05-2008, 10:10 PM

I think at this point the presidential candidates should start pushing for an alternative energy program made entirely out of the Cardinals bullpen. I don't see why not, everyone else is already drilling them.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 08-05-2008, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurman merman

the cardinals have blown what, 30 saves this year? which means they would have far and away the best record in baseball if they had a closer. i don't understand how that is overrated.

First of all, a blown save doesn't= a loss, it just means that you've given up a lead at some point in innings 7-9. They've had games where they've blown multiple saves and won.

You think that it's just the closer, and it's not. Anytime someone comes in after 6 and gives up a lead it's a BS, and the entire bullpen sucks, from Izzy to Franklin to Villone.

Since the "closer" was invented the % of teams that win after 8 innings is unchanged. If you actually look at stats the top 5 teams in bullpen ERA have starting rotations that average the largest number of innings per start.

Saying the Cardinals should use Wainwright as the closer is like saying they should save Pujols for pinch hitting situations with the game on the line. It's reactionary.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 08-05-2008, 10:16 PM

LaRussa is a dumbass. Intentionally walking Manny, so instead of going against Manny's BA, you go against Loney's OBP.

Even if he gets out of it, it's an awful move.

Pasta Little Brioni · 08-05-2008, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

LaRussa is a dumbass. Intentionally walking Manny, so instead of going against Manny's BA, you go against Loney's OBP.

Even if he gets out of it, it's an awful move.

Meh, I'll take my chances against Loney any day rather then face Manny.

Mama Hip Rockets · 08-05-2008, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

First of all, a blown save doesn't= a loss, it just means that you've given up a lead at some point in innings 7-9. They've had games where they've blown multiple saves and won.

You think that it's just the closer, and it's not. Anytime someone comes in after 6 and gives up a lead it's a BS, and the entire bullpen sucks, from Izzy to Franklin to Villone.

Since the "closer" was invented the % of teams that win after 8 innings is unchanged. If you actually look at stats the top 5 teams in bullpen ERA have starting rotations that average the largest number of innings per start.

Saying the Cardinals should use Wainwright as the closer is like saying they should save Pujols for pinch hitting situations with the game on the line. It's reactionary.

with carpenter back, they have a decent rotation now, even without wainwright. franklin was fine before they put him in the closer role. isringhausen did better (although still pretty crappy) when he was in middle relief. they sure as hell would have won tonight, and a whole bunch of other games too, if they had a solid closer. they would be, at the worst, 5 games up on the cubs right now.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 08-05-2008, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurman merman

with carpenter back, they have a decent rotation now, even without wainwright. franklin was fine before they put him in the closer role. isringhausen did better (although still pretty crappy) when he was in middle relief. they sure as hell would have won tonight, and a whole bunch of other games too, if they had a solid closer. they would be, at the worst, 5 games up on the cubs right now.

Last year was Franklin's aberration year. This year is who he is. It's not just the closer. Everyone in that bullpen is unreliable. It's not happenstance that no one back there can close, because no one is good in middle relief either. They just aren't good pitchers.

Sorry dude, but look it up, Pineiro is a replacement level pitcher. You can't expect your pen to continually perform when he, Welly, and Looper can only give you about 5 2/3 a start.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 08-05-2008, 10:26 PM

Riddle me this one, therman.

If it is just the closer, why do teams have higher OPS, batting average, and OBP in the 6th, 7th, and 8th inning than the 9th against us?

Our entire pen sucks.

Pasta Little Brioni · 08-05-2008, 10:27 PM

Yes, the middle relief is just as bad as any turd that has tried to close this year. If any help in the bullpen is coming it would have to come from the minors and I'm not really sure they have anyone down there right now that is ready to come up and do the job. Wainwright is headed back to the rotation when he returns, so it's a moot point.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 08-05-2008, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PGM

Yes, the middle relief is just as bad as any turd that has tried to close this year. If any help in the bullpen is coming it would have to come from the minors and I'm not really sure they have anyone down there right now that is ready to come up and do the job. Wainwright is headed back to the rotation when he returns, so it's a moot point.

Motte, Perez, Salas. Hell, bring up Todd or Mortenson and have them be the long guys.

Pasta Little Brioni · 08-05-2008, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Motte, Perez, Salas. Hell, bring up Todd or Mortenson and have them be the long guys.

They need to bring em up, what can it hurt??? The pen is already a laughingstock. There is no excuse whatsoever for dIzzy to throw another pitch for the team this year.

Mama Hip Rockets · 08-05-2008, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Everyone in that bullpen is unreliable. .

which is why they need adam wainwright in that bullpen.

Pasta Little Brioni · 08-05-2008, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurman merman

which is why they need adam wainwright in that bullpen.

Not happening...Besides the rotation could use a jolt as well

Mama Hip Rockets · 08-05-2008, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Riddle me this one, therman.

If it is just the closer, why do teams have higher OPS, batting average, and OBP in the 6th, 7th, and 8th inning than the 9th against us?

Our entire pen sucks.

i'm not saying it's just the closer. i definitely agree with you that the whole bullpen sucks. but having a reliable closer is a HUGE step in the right direction.

Frazod · 08-05-2008, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

I can only imagine the rage running through frazod right now.

I was playing Xbox. I'm to the point now that unless we have a five run lead going into the 8th I just can't bear to watch.

After enduring years of Robinson's detards, I can't take this fucking bullpen.

07-07-2008, 07:05 AM
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $-661038 VARSITY	The "Official" Cardinals Discussion Thread. Figured that if we had one thread to discuss Cardinals "stuff" it would be easier to find. What do you think? Good idea?
Posts: 81,288

08-05-2008, 10:06 PM	#766
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7219572	I'm going to the game tomorrow. I'm thinking of wearing a paper bag with "Cardinal Bullpen Hat" written on it. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 75,078

08-05-2008, 10:10 PM	#767
tk13 ... Join Date: Nov 2001 Casino cash: $-1767500	I think at this point the presidential candidates should start pushing for an alternative energy program made entirely out of the Cardinals bullpen. I don't see why not, everyone else is already drilling them.
Posts: 56,662

08-05-2008, 10:16 PM	#769
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7219572	LaRussa is a dumbass. Intentionally walking Manny, so instead of going against Manny's BA, you go against Loney's OBP. Even if he gets out of it, it's an awful move. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 75,078

08-05-2008, 10:26 PM	#773
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7219572	Riddle me this one, therman. If it is just the closer, why do teams have higher OPS, batting average, and OBP in the 6th, 7th, and 8th inning than the 9th against us? Our entire pen sucks. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 75,078

08-05-2008, 10:27 PM	#774
Pasta Little Brioni Consuming CP souls Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: U.S.A. Casino cash: $298880	Yes, the middle relief is just as bad as any turd that has tried to close this year. If any help in the bullpen is coming it would have to come from the minors and I'm not really sure they have anyone down there right now that is ready to come up and do the job. Wainwright is headed back to the rotation when he returns, so it's a moot point.
Posts: 72,949