Conley runs with 1st with Wilson hurt

[Mother****erJones]

Chris Conley - WR - Chiefs
Chiefs third-round WR Chris Conley ran with the starting offense at Monday's practice.
With Albert Wilson (shoulder) hurt, Conley is getting his chance to run opposite Jeremy Maclin. Before Wilson even got hurt last week, he was having a really quiet camp and preseason while Conley caught 3-of-5 targets for 30 yards in his first action of the preseason over the weekend. Wilson has speed, but isn't very big. Conley (6'3/205) was a draftnik favorite as a metrics freak with 4.35 wheels, 45-inch vertical, and 11-foot-7 broad jump. He's in the mix for No. 2 duties.

[temper11]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

I disagree. I think he lacks explosion and quickness. Speed does not equal quickness. NFL conditioning isn't going to change that.

I think he has some other traits that the team can really benefit from and i think he can still be productive in this league, im just saying me expectations have been lowered a bit is all. I don't think he'll ever be a #1.

Yes. There is definitely a difference between being quick and being fast.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Rice was very quick. WTF are you smoking? Boldin, Fitz....both loose hips. Getting open and creating separation comes from quickness....suddenness.

There's a difference between quickness and timed speed. You clearly have the two confused.

There's multiple ways to get open.

Someone brought up Rice (not quick, wtf?) He wasn't in the category of guys like dez, or Megatron physically, but he was a great route runner.

It's all about putting guys in a position that their strengths allow them to succeed. That's why my Vincent Jackson comp makes sense to me, he needs to win in the crosses, posts, and deep game like Vincent did/does.

[Mav]

Originally Posted by notorious

Robert Smith was like that.

That dude was silky smooth.

[Mav]

Originally Posted by O.city

There's multiple ways to get open.



Someone brought up Rice (not quick, wtf?) He wasn't in the category of guys like dez, or Megatron physically, but he was a great route runner.



It's all about putting guys in a position that their strengths allow them to succeed. That's why my Vincent Jackson comp makes sense to me, he needs to win in the crosses, posts, and deep game like Vincent did/does.

I think people are hesitant to agree with VJax because of his Sheer size. The guy is like 235. I get what your saying though.

[notorious]

Originally Posted by Mav

That dude was silky smooth.

Not to mention smart at hell.


He is a better analyst than football player, and he was damn good at playing football.

[Mav]

Originally Posted by notorious

Not to mention smart at hell.





He is a better analyst than football player, and he was damn good at playing football.

Yeah he is.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by philfree

I guess a guy who has a 45 inch vertical jump doesn't have any explosion or quickness. That was best at the combine for WRs and he also was best at the broad jump a 135 inches. He may or may not turn in to what we want but he has the tools to get it done.

Vertical and broad jump aren't examples of quickness. You'd think Baldwin would be enough to illustrate that for you.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Rausch

I don't see that at all.

That said, I'd nut if he had that level of production...

And like I said; that might be a little unfair. I was thinking mostly in terms of how Jackson was used (I doubt Conley ever becomes as strong as Jackson).

Really though, Chambers is a pretty good 75th percentile projection.

[jonzie04]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Rice was very quick. WTF are you smoking? Boldin, Fitz....both loose hips. Getting open and creating separation comes from quickness....suddenness.

There's a difference between quickness and timed speed. You clearly have the two confused.

Rice was an average athlete. If he was playing in todays time he'd he right smack dab in the middle of the pack in terms of quickness and speed. And anquan boldin is a turd. Fitzgerald has been a below average athete for a #1 receiver for 5 years now.

It is absolutely laughable that you think that getting separation and getting open comes from quickness. For starters about half of the teams in this league run zone defense nearly every down, and recognizing the coverage and finding soft spots in zones is far more important than quickness. Even man coverage teams like us run zone from time to time...

This is the NFL... Not madden the video game, and not the NCAA. Speed and quickness are important, but everyone is reasonably quick and fast. How you get open in the nfl is by making a guy Think you're going one way when you're really going another way, and that is done in quite a few different ways. That is what makes Jerry Rice the best of all time despite his average athleticism.

[O.city]

Quickness in and out of breaks create separation. Detox is right.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

And like I said; that might be a little unfair. I was thinking mostly in terms of how Jackson was used (I doubt Conley ever becomes as strong as Jackson).

Really though, Chambers is a pretty good 75th percentile projection.

Im trying to think of someone currently in the NFL that compares to Conley.....body composition wise, i think the closest is AJ Green and maybe DeAndre Hopkins.

But Conley doesn't move nearly as well as those two.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Im trying to think of someone currently in the NFL that compares to Conley.....body composition wise, i think the closest is AJ Green and maybe DeAndre Hopkins.

But Conley doesn't move nearly as well as those two.

Martavis Bryant

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by jonzie04

This is the NFL... Not madden the video game, and not the NCAA. Speed and quickness are important, but everyone is reasonably quick and fast. How you get open in the nfl is by making a guy Think you're going one way when you're really going another way, and that is done in quite a few different ways. That is what makes Jerry Rice the best of all time despite his average athleticism.

Quickness isn't just about your 3-cone time (though it's demonstrative).

Quickness comes in large part with simple foot-fire drills and things like that. You're right that open is largely a product of route running and misdirection, but again, if you're a long-strider, those are both harder things to do.

Cooper is the best recent example of a guy that simply uses technique and precision to make space - Conley can't do what Cooper does. It isn't necessarily because Cooper is faster over 10 yards than Conley (I'm not certain that he is), but it's because Cooper has lightening fast feet and fluid hips that allow him to make those quick moves that will fool a CB. They allow him to plant a foot and make a cut without losing speed. The allow him to shuffle into a break and make a dead stop before the DB has any idea what just hit him (that play with Cooper vs. Patrick Peterson last week was a perfect example).

Conley doesn't have those feet and he won't get them. Rice had them - you're selling his athleticism way WAY short. Most of the great WRs in the league have them.

You don't need them to be good, though. It's just that without them, you're limited in the kind of WR you can be. Conley isn't going to be challenging Maclin for the Z spot at any point because he's just not going to be a guy that can be the technician that Maclin is. It's not because he's not smart enough or fast enough; he's just not fluid enough and his feet don't quite fire fast enough.

It's not the end of the world. The guy can still be a damn good football player.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Im trying to think of someone currently in the NFL that compares to Conley.....body composition wise, i think the closest is AJ Green and maybe DeAndre Hopkins.

But Conley doesn't move nearly as well as those two.

Justin Hunter? I watched him a little bit (because I drafted him in one of CD's sandbox leagues....RIP Sandbox) and he has a lot of the same skills that you see in Conley.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by staylor26

Martavis Bryant

Also a solid comp - now would you say that Martavis Bryant is ever likely to be more than a complementary WR?

Because I see an elite deep threat who still has a long LONG way to go on his routes. It's interesting that they have both Bryant and Wheaton because to me, those are guys that kind of demonstrate my point.

Bryant may well end up being the more valuable of the two because his skill - deep ball stud - is so rare and so valuable that it may simply trump all else. But Wheaton has a more rounded skill-set and if both guys were street FAs and I was looking for one of those two to take the Z role in this offense, I'd take Wheaton.

So if I have Maclin on the team - I go with Bryant as a complementary deep threat. If I don't have Maclin, I go with Wheaton as a guy who's skills allow me a more developed overall passing game.

Conley is much more likely to be a player like Bryant than Wheaton, no? Do you believe that Bryant's skill set it inherently more valuable than Wheaton's? Or that Bryant could tailor his skills to do the same things Wheaton would do but better? I don't really see that.

If Conley ends up being Bryant, he's still a #2 WR and an incomplete player. That doesn't mean he isn't damn valuable.