Albert/Joeckel perspective

[KChiefs1]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Fill in the blank: Albert is the ________ best tackle in the NFL

16th

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by KChiefs1

16th

Why has the 16th best tackle in the NFL been in the top 7 in pass blocking efficiency two years in a row, and allowed a grand total of 6 sacks in two seasons?

Doesn't add up.

There's nothing average about that.

[Ming the Merciless]

I also think he will play past 32, but hey....I don't really know....

I just think if our goal is to collect peaches, we shouldnt trade a peach for an apple then draft a peach to replace it

we should hold on to the peach, and draft another

but thats just me

[Sassy Squatch]

**** it. Better sign one of them fancy passrushing DEs with the Albert money you're saving.

[spanky 52]

At the end of the day, it's all about the dollars.

[YayMike]

Pioli would have let Albert walk, and we would have gotten nothing. Dorsey ALMOST let Albert walk and we would have gotten nothing. (forget the comp pick later cuz it certainly wouldnt have been a 2nd rounder). It has been made clear by two regimes that Albert would not be signed long term either because of his demands, or concerns about his health. The fact that we are getting a 2nd round pick for him should be seen as a HUGE win. I look at it as either way, Albert was gone. Keeping him on the franchise tag for this year doesn't seem to be something the team wants to do. I dont really understand that since its only for one year at 9MM, but if trading him also allows the extra 5MM to sign other players, that's fine.

No one likes what we gave up for Alex Smith, no one. Alex Smith will be a huge upgrade at QB from Cassehole. getting the 2nd round pick for Albert allows us to get a S/ILB to plug another hole. I'm not ready to raise pitchforks and torches until after I see how the draft plays out.

[Chris Meck]

The prevailing wisdom-not just at 1 Arrowhead Drive, but around the league, by GM's and coaches who are paid well do evaluate these things, is that Geno Smith is the best of a mediocre class of draft-able quarterbacks.

The apparent thought process of not just KC but the league is that Geno is not measurably better than the pack, which would include your Barkley/Wilson/Nassib/Manuel/Bray/Dyserts. Reid may like one or more of them, or he may not, but the fact is that they don't like Geno more than. IF they did, then KC, Oakland, Buffalo, and Arizona probably wouldn't have taken vet QB's. The #1 pick would be the envy of the league, and we could collect a king's ransom for it if we didn't need a QB. Which of course, we do, so we'd be keeping it and drafting Geno Smith. However, it looks like we're not and we can't give the pick away which tells me that nobody else thinks he's all that great either. Bummer.

While I want a homegrown franchise QB as much or more than anyone, I don't agree that you take a guy just to take a guy. That is stupid. We have had the bad luck to have the #1 overall pick in a year where there is no damned QB worth it. You don't take a guy you don't believe in just to take 'a guy'.

As it's been said, Reid and Dorsey are not controlled by the ghosts of Chiefs front offices past; What Carl did is not on their radar. What ***** did is not influencing their decisions. Dorsey and Reid saw a gaping hole at QB and filled it with the best available QB on the market. This is true; whether you're an Alex Smith fan or not, there was no one available that is better. They feel he can operate Reid's offense, and we'll have to see about that. They apparently don't feel Geno's the guy, and it bums me out, but I figure Andy Reid probably knows more about it than I do-and if he thought Geno was his guy, he'd go get him no matter what anyone else says. He's done it before. Fear is not a motivating factor for him.

My suspicion is that he likes a couple of the rest of the pack guys just as much, and that he'll take one early.

The Albert trade is not part of the Alex Smith trade and to try to equivocate them together as some sort of net sum deal is dumb. If you're going to do that, then you must include ALL of the offseason signings and trades into one big net sum. So, yeah, minus Albert and pick 1.1 (that no team wants) goes to take #1 draft pick OT, plus Alex Smith, plus we get that #2 pick back, plus Donta Robinson, plus Sean Smith, plus etc., etc., etc.
When you look at the whole body of work this offseason, what you see is that they addressed each gaping hole with multiple proven NFL level players.

We enter the draft with one big hole (probably) at Left Tackle. That's a helluva lot better than we were three months ago.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

The prevailing wisdom-not just at 1 Arrowhead Drive, but around the league, by GM's and coaches who are paid well do evaluate these things, is that Geno Smith is the best of a mediocre class of draft-able quarterbacks.

The apparent thought process of not just KC but the league is that Geno is not measurably better than the pack, which would include your Barkley/Wilson/Nassib/Manuel/Bray/Dyserts. Reid may like one or more of them, or he may not, but the fact is that they don't like Geno more than. IF they did, then KC, Oakland, Buffalo, and Arizona probably wouldn't have taken vet QB's. The #1 pick would be the envy of the league, and we could collect a king's ransom for it if we didn't need a QB. Which of course, we do, so we'd be keeping it and drafting Geno Smith. However, it looks like we're not and we can't give the pick away which tells me that nobody else thinks he's all that great either. Bummer.

While I want a homegrown franchise QB as much or more than anyone, I don't agree that you take a guy just to take a guy. That is stupid. We have had the bad luck to have the #1 overall pick in a year where there is no damned QB worth it. You don't take a guy you don't believe in just to take 'a guy'.

As it's been said, Reid and Dorsey are not controlled by the ghosts of Chiefs front offices past; What Carl did is not on their radar. What ***** did is not influencing their decisions. Dorsey and Reid saw a gaping hole at QB and filled it with the best available QB on the market. This is true; whether you're an Alex Smith fan or not, there was no one available that is better. They feel he can operate Reid's offense, and we'll have to see about that. They apparently don't feel Geno's the guy, and it bums me out, but I figure Andy Reid probably knows more about it than I do-and if he thought Geno was his guy, he'd go get him no matter what anyone else says. He's done it before. Fear is not a motivating factor for him.

My suspicion is that he likes a couple of the rest of the pack guys just as much, and that he'll take one early.

The Albert trade is not part of the Alex Smith trade and to try to equivocate them together as some sort of net sum deal is dumb. If you're going to do that, then you must include ALL of the offseason signings and trades into one big net sum. So, yeah, minus Albert and pick 1.1 (that no team wants) goes to take #1 draft pick OT, plus Alex Smith, plus we get that #2 pick back, plus Donta Robinson, plus Sean Smith, plus etc., etc., etc.
When you look at the whole body of work this offseason, what you see is that they addressed each gaping hole with multiple proven NFL level players.

We enter the draft with one big hole (probably) at Left Tackle. That's a helluva lot better than we were three months ago.

The impending Albert trade and the Alex Smith trade both affect the Chiefs' options and movements in the draft's first two rounds. Only reason I consider both when looking at the Chiefs' movements regarding these players.

Alex Smith might help the Chiefs win 8-10 games this year and next, but really, what's the BFD about that? Barring a miraculous string of luck, or the Chiefs defense suddenly morphing into a historically awesome unit, it's not going to pay off in anything.

Filling the gaping hole at QB doesn't do much good, IMO, if you don't fill it with someone you can win long-term with.

If they truly are grading the QBs out as basically the same and are able to trade Albert for a pick that allows them to get one of those guys, a lot of my concerns will fade away.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Alex Smith might help the Chiefs win 8-10 games this year and next, but really, what's the BFD about that?

Yeah, who cares? The Chiefs have had four winning seasons out of the last thirteen and Arrowhead is still the loudest stadium in the NFL.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Yeah, who cares? The Chiefs have had four winning seasons out of the last thirteen and Arrowhead is still the loudest stadium in the NFL.

Whoo! Bring back the 90s!

Who cares if we actually are on a path to win it all as long as we win 2-3 more than we lose, make the playoffs, fill up the stadium and have a great tailgating atmosphere!

Huzzah!

[HemiEd]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Yeah, who cares? The Chiefs have had four winning seasons out of the last thirteen and Arrowhead is still the loudest stadium in the NFL.

It is not the loudest any longer, and yeah, hopefully they can get to 10 and 6 so they can lose first round. If they don't get a QB now, they aren't getting one, period.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

The impending Albert trade and the Alex Smith trade both affect the Chiefs' options and movements in the draft's first two rounds. Only reason I consider both when looking at the Chiefs' movements regarding these players.

Yes, except that you can't JUST group these two moves together and declare "FAIL". There have been several moves made, and they will either overall make for a better team or not. You can't cherry pick two you don't like and ignore the rest.

Filling the gaping hole at QB doesn't do much good, IMO, if you don't fill it with someone you can win long-term with.

If they truly are grading the QBs out as basically the same and are able to trade Albert for a pick that allows them to get one of those guys, a lot of my concerns will fade away.

Look at it like this-You're Dorsey. You don't think any of these QB's in the draft are ready to play. You've got Matt ****ing Cassell and Brady ****ing Quinn. You're screwed. What are you going to do? Are you playing Madden football and can just put it on auto pilot, lose 14 again and see who's in next year's draft? Hell no. You need to try to win games. What's your best option? You don't like Geno Smith. You're not crazy about any of them. What other choice do you have, exactly? Take the best veteran you can get and then draft the project that you think you can groom.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Yes, except that you can't JUST group these two moves together and declare "FAIL". There have been several moves made, and they will either overall make for a better team or not. You can't cherry pick two you don't like and ignore the rest.


Look at it like this-You're Dorsey. You don't think any of these QB's in the draft are ready to play. You've got Matt ****ing Cassell and Brady ****ing Quinn. You're screwed. What are you going to do? Are you playing Madden football and can just put it on auto pilot, lose 14 again and see who's in next year's draft? Hell no. You need to try to win games. What's your best option? You don't like Geno Smith. You're not crazy about any of them. What other choice do you have, exactly? Take the best veteran you can get and then draft the project that you think you can groom.

If I'm Dorsey, I realize it's Year 1 and it doesn't matter what my record is in Year 1. It matters what my record is in Years 4-6.

What he's doing is great for his job security and will please the hell out of true fans. The Chiefs will be DECENT, Arrowhead will fill up, and so will Clark Hunt's pockets.

It's not great for building a team that can actually win in the playoffs unless they get REALLY ****ing lucky and find a gem in rounds 3 or later this year or next.

[keg in kc]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

The prevailing wisdom-not just at 1 Arrowhead Drive, but around the league, by GM's and coaches who are paid well do evaluate these things, is that Geno Smith is the best of a mediocre class of draft-able quarterbacks.

You can't actually say that with any kind of certainty for another six days.

[el borracho]

Originally Posted by cdcox

How would you feel if the Chiefs had the #2 overall pick and packaged it and Albert for Joeckel? Because that's what the Chiefs are on the brink of doing.

#1 pick = 3000 points
#54 pick = 360 points

difference is 2640 points

#2 pick is worth 2600 points

Chiefs are going to invest 3000 - 360 = 2640 points to replace Albert with Joeckel. It could be a good deal for the Chiefs if 1) Albert is out of the league in two years, 2) Jockel is a HOFer and 3) the alternatives (like Geno) don't have very good careers.

Dorsey's view is probably that we are trading a left tackle and a future pick for a franchise QB while still having a full set of draft picks in 2013. I think everyone would trade Albert for a franchise QB, if that were the case. Problem is the fact that Alex Smith is not a franchise QB so, in reality, you have traded Albert for a backup QB and will promptly waste the number one pick in the draft to replace Albert. So devastatingly disappointing, in particular given the Chiefs history.