NFL Draft At number 3 the Chiefs should take a QB... - Page 6

Alphaman · 01-03-2009, 09:42 AM

However, Chiefs fans should not expect the same results as those delivered by Flacco and Ryan. I say that for mainly one reason. Both Flacco and Ryan finished their senior years at their respective schools. That level of maturity and leadership experience certainly helped them in their preparation for their rookie year in the NFL.

Both Stafford and Bradford will be underclassmen if they come out. They won't have the same level of maturity or leadership experience when they hit the NFL. I know they are both leaders, but in college being a senior in the lockerroom carries a lot weight and respect even if there is a talented QB in the lockerroom as well.

Take Mizzou for example. Last season Chase Daniel was a leader on the team, but THE leaders on the team were Pig Brown and Martin Rucker. Seniors carry the big stick in college.

Lex Luthors · 01-03-2009, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Personally, I think the ability to throw the long ball is grossly overrated.

Agreed.

Just to refresh everybody's memory, the last time the Chiefs went deep in playoffs, Joe Montana was the QB. Montana couldn't throw a good long ball IN HIS PRIME, much less when he was with the Chiefs.

chiefzilla1501 · 01-03-2009, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdcox

If "afforded the excuses" means "shown more patience" then yes of course. Do you honestly think every player should be given the same opportunities?

My observation is that low draft choices who far-far exceed expectations start fast and keep improving steadily: Jarred Allen, Terrell Davis, Tom Brady. I don't know too many that take a long, slow painful development. For example, I'm not expecting Page to develop into a pro-bowler. He's a great 7th round pick, but we still need better play at safety, and I don't expect he'll improve much more than he has. He can be a contributer, and could fill in as a starter another year or so, but I'm not going to give him another 2 years to develop in hopes that some how he will become the player we need. But a fair number of 1st rounders need a few years of adjustment in to the NFL, and I'm very willing to give them that chance.

Would a few more late round guys develop if given the same opportunities as the early round picks? Sure. But the return on investment would be very low. You'd have to keep a ton of turds to find a few diamonds. No NFL team can afford to do that.

cdcox, I agree that I get frustrated with people who use the argument "Brady succeeded as a 6th rounder, therefore all 6th round QBs deserve a shot." I can understand that argument. But I think once you start in the NFL, draft status goes out the window. Especially when you talk about a raw QB like Thigpen. I think it'd be different if Thigpen was a failure at the college level, but his draft status was downgraded because of the level of competition he played, not because of his measurables. but because of the school he played for.

I don't think you mortgage your future on the kid. But the kid has never been given a true chance to succeed. He's never had a real QBs coach and 95% of the attention from the coaches went to Croyle. He never played with a full playbook, as it was improvised in midseason. He never played alongside a decent running game. He never had the luxury of a defense that could help him win games. He never got to work with the top receivers like Bowe or Gonzalez until midseason.

I think Thigpen has proven enough to at least deserve a shot to be the favorite for next year's starting job. You have to bring in strong competition, but to suggest that he hasn't shown potential is ignoring the circumstances. Thigpen was thrown into a really lousy situation and while he didn't end great, he played about as well as you'd expect of anyone at that experience level.

King_Chief_Fan · 01-03-2009, 02:27 PM

THe fact that Ryan and Flacco play behind a good o line is another reason they play better. Remember the Chiefs have to put Thig 15 yards back from the LOS to give him a chance.
Better quit worrying about a QB and build an O line first.
I am not convinced that Herm thinks Croyle is washed and will give him another run. I hope I am dead wrong about that.

**cdcox** · 01-03-2009, 02:43 PM

1. You have to draft Sanchez or Stafford if you get the chance.
2. If you can't get one of those two, put all your eggs in Thigpen under a pro-style offense (okay to mix in 30% - 40% spread, but the base needs to be something that can sustain a running game in running situations). Let him show if he has it or not, without accommodation. If he does, great...

3. ... if not lets hope he fails bad enough that we can draft Sanchez next year.

We absolutely have to get a franchise QB. Thigpen, Sanchez, Stafford, whoever.

I don't want a game manager. That would be worst possible fate.

Coogs · 01-03-2009, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King_Chief_Fan

Better quit worrying about a QB and build an O line first.

There well be a pretty good chance to get good O-linemen in the 2nd thru 4th round. And maybe not even reach for position, but taking the best player available. Most all of the top 100's out there have good o-line prospects right around our number. Granted those boards change a lot from now until the draft, but we can possibly fill several needs and still add a potential franchise QB.

Then there is still the 2010 draft, as I don't really see us making the Super Bowl next season given the schedule.

milkman · 01-03-2009, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King_Chief_Fan

THe fact that Ryan and Flacco play behind a good o line is another reason they play better. Remember the Chiefs have to put Thig 15 yards back from the LOS to give him a chance.
Better quit worrying about a QB and build an O line first.
I am not convinced that Herm thinks Croyle is washed and will give him another run. I hope I am dead wrong about that.

We've built freaking O-Lines in KC for the better part of 30 ****ing years, and where the **** has that ever gotten us?

Good God, you people are just too ****ing stupid to breathe.

smittysbar · 01-03-2009, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

We've built freaking O-Lines in KC for the better part of 30 ****ing years, and where the **** has that ever gotten us?

Good God, you people are just too ****ing stupid to breathe.

Yep, and a team isn't in this kind of position to try and get one very often.

chiefzilla1501 · 01-03-2009, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdcox

1. You have to draft Sanchez or Stafford if you get the chance.
2. If you can't get one of those two, put all your eggs in Thigpen under a pro-style offense (okay to mix in 30% - 40% spread, but the base needs to be something that can sustain a running game in running situations). Let him show if he has it or not, without accommodation. If he does, great...

3. ... if not lets hope he fails bad enough that we can draft Sanchez next year.

We absolutely have to get a franchise QB. Thigpen, Sanchez, Stafford, whoever.

I don't want a game manager. That would be worst possible fate.

You pretty much nailed it.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 01-03-2009, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdcox

1. You have to draft Sanchez or Stafford if you get the chance.
2. If you can't get one of those two, put all your eggs in Thigpen under a pro-style offense (okay to mix in 30% - 40% spread, but the base needs to be something that can sustain a running game in running situations). Let him show if he has it or not, without accommodation. If he does, great...

3. ... if not lets hope he fails bad enough that we can draft Sanchez next year.

We absolutely have to get a franchise QB. Thigpen, Sanchez, Stafford, whoever.

I don't want a game manager. That would be worst possible fate.

I'm with you, 100%

**BigMeatballDave** · 01-03-2009, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King_Chief_Fan

Better quit worrying about a QB and build an O line first.

Um, both can be had this year. You do not draft a RT, G, or C in the 1st.

**SAUTO** · 01-03-2009, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

You pretty much nailed it.

I have said this for months, if stafford declares and he's available and he's our guy get him. if there's doubt roll with thigpen and next year's class should be better(this was from when it was ONLY about stafford, funny how THAT'S died down now) sanchez is a better option IMO because like someone else said when the chips get down he gets pissed not pissy and i havent seen that fire out of stafford he DOES seem like rivers or cutler immature crybabies

**the Talking Can** · 01-03-2009, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdcox

1. You have to draft Sanchez or Stafford if you get the chance.
2. If you can't get one of those two, put all your eggs in Thigpen under a pro-style offense (okay to mix in 30% - 40% spread, but the base needs to be something that can sustain a running game in running situations). Let him show if he has it or not, without accommodation. If he does, great...

3. ... if not lets hope he fails bad enough that we can draft Sanchez next year.

We absolutely have to get a franchise QB. Thigpen, Sanchez, Stafford, whoever.

I don't want a game manager. That would be worst possible fate.

this

it isn't complicated people...

milkman · 01-03-2009, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

this

it isn't complicated people...

It's rocket science to this fanbase.

chiefzilla1501 · 01-03-2009, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

this

it isn't complicated people...

What makes it complicated is that what happens in practice and what happens in reality are two entirely different things.

We've seen this game played before. You're assuming that if Thigpen lights it up next year, that he'll keep his job. We've seen in too many instances that first round QBs are often handed starting jobs they don't deserve.

I'm all for this strategy on the contingency that the head coach will give Thigpen a fair chance to win and keep his starting job, and that he'll be quick to replace Thigpen the minute they realize he isn't the answer. While that sounds like a simple concept, it seems like a decision coaches struggle to make ESPECIALLY when you have a GM that puts pressure on the coach to play the expensive top 10 QB pick.

Fat Elvis · 01-03-2009, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

It's rocket science to Proctor.

FYP

01-03-2009, 09:42 AM
Alphaman Veteran Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Austin, TX, USA Casino cash: $10004900	At number 3 the Chiefs should take a QB... However, Chiefs fans should not expect the same results as those delivered by Flacco and Ryan. I say that for mainly one reason. Both Flacco and Ryan finished their senior years at their respective schools. That level of maturity and leadership experience certainly helped them in their preparation for their rookie year in the NFL. Both Stafford and Bradford will be underclassmen if they come out. They won't have the same level of maturity or leadership experience when they hit the NFL. I know they are both leaders, but in college being a senior in the lockerroom carries a lot weight and respect even if there is a talented QB in the lockerroom as well. Take Mizzou for example. Last season Chase Daniel was a leader on the team, but THE leaders on the team were Pig Brown and Martin Rucker. Seniors carry the big stick in college.
Posts: 1,380

01-03-2009, 02:27 PM	#78
King_Chief_Fan Praise Him Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: none ya Casino cash: $4755486	THe fact that Ryan and Flacco play behind a good o line is another reason they play better. Remember the Chiefs have to put Thig 15 yards back from the LOS to give him a chance. Better quit worrying about a QB and build an O line first. I am not convinced that Herm thinks Croyle is washed and will give him another run. I hope I am dead wrong about that. __________________ No Jesus No Peace Know Jesus Know Peace Ephesians 2:8-10 English Standard Version (ESV) 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Posts: 12,362

01-03-2009, 02:43 PM	#79
cdcox www.nfl-forecast.com Join Date: Sep 2000 Casino cash: $-468231	1. You have to draft Sanchez or Stafford if you get the chance. 2. If you can't get one of those two, put all your eggs in Thigpen under a pro-style offense (okay to mix in 30% - 40% spread, but the base needs to be something that can sustain a running game in running situations). Let him show if he has it or not, without accommodation. If he does, great... 3. ... if not lets hope he fails bad enough that we can draft Sanchez next year. We absolutely have to get a franchise QB. Thigpen, Sanchez, Stafford, whoever. I don't want a game manager. That would be worst possible fate.
Posts: 46,032