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Old 07-26-2012, 08:51 AM  
Kylo Ren Kylo Ren is offline
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***OFFICIAL 2012 KC Chiefs Training Camp Thread***
Discuss everything Chiefs / training camp related here......

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Mark Cassell sucks!
Last edited by Kylo Ren; 07-26-2012 at 08:51 AM.. Reason: Wrong year!
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Old 07-31-2012, 11:58 AM   #961
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Obviously, you'd like better sack numbers from Dorsey and Jackson, but they are not sexy positions in this scheme. They are not pass rushers.

They are solid against the run.
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Old 07-31-2012, 12:05 PM   #962
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Old 07-31-2012, 12:14 PM   #963
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Originally Posted by Just Not Gettin' It View Post
Patriots defensive line sack from the starters totals from 2003-2008:

2003: 11
2004: 12
2005: 5.5
2006: 12.5
2007: 14
2008: 12

The best 3-4 D-line of the last decade never got over 15 sacks from the starters.
The 2003 Pats defense was a 43 defense and your stats are wrong there, didn't check the other years you put up. Imo the best 34 DL during those years was the Steelers DL, which also runs the same system with the added "fire zone" wrinkles. Hell, the Ravens DL was right there with these teams during this time, I bet that DL put up some sack numbers.

I expected someone would bring this up after my post. Imo the Giants defensive line of those days was just better than their competition compared to these other teams and theirs.

The point is, when the coaching staff of the Parcells Tree has good defensive linemen, they get after the QB just fine.

This team doesn't have the horses. Not at this time. These players could finally get going this season and if they do, you will see they get pressure from the front 3.

This is why I expect Dontari Poe to play a lot of RDE this season. They need a guy there that can move up field quickly enough to create pressure.
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Old 07-31-2012, 12:31 PM   #964
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How big is Shaun Droughn? Sounds like he has been looking pretty good.
apparently he's picked up speed or looks pretty good so far in TC. Must have put in a lot of work in the offseason

I read on twitter someone say he caught a flat pass and outran the defense lol. Something McCluster cant do.
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Old 07-31-2012, 12:33 PM   #965
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Old 07-31-2012, 12:36 PM   #966
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Originally Posted by chiefsfootballfan View Post
No. Their job in this defense is the same as the job of all defensive linemen -- stop the run and rush the passer.
wrong

Their job is to engage the Oline,protect the linebackers,stop the run and then after the offense commits to the pass try to rush the passer.

They sacrifice their 1st step
They basically sacrifice any quickness they have
They intentional engage the Oline(which benefits the OL a ton)

completely different than a 4-3
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Old 07-31-2012, 12:44 PM   #967
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Originally Posted by chiefsfootballfan View Post
The 2003 Pats defense was a 43 defense and your stats are wrong there...
You are incorrect. 2003 is the year that the Patriots traded for Ted Washington mid-season and put him on the nose.
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Old 07-31-2012, 12:49 PM   #968
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A good 5-tec is one of the harder positions to fill with a difference making player.

NEs defense was really really good because they had 3 high picks on the DL that made the rest of the defenses job easier.

Their job is to neutralize 2 linemen all game long...anyone that thinks any old slapdick can do that doesn't understand the duties of a 2 gap 5tec.
i didn't say any ol' slapdick can do it.

finding a 3-4 2-gap guy who can sacrifice 1st step penetration to protect the linebackers, occupy 2 Olineman AND THEN still rush the passer is very difficult.

It's about an extreme curve on diminishing returns.

You need an A+ level 3-4 DE can make your defense awesome but anything below an A+ and he is probably going to look like 'just a guy'.

on the other hand ...

At linebacker a B+ player can still make a big improvement

At Safety any grade level of improvement can make your run and pass defense better.

did i explain it any better? get my point?


I just think that unless you see an uber elite guy then you can get in the 2nd/3rd round that isn't going to be much different than the 1st rd guy.


A team could dump 1st round picks into 3-4 DE's every dam year and not see their defense improve a bit until/if they hit on a real stud.

Imo it's more efficient and you get more bang for your buck at other positions in the high rounds.
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Old 07-31-2012, 01:00 PM   #969
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Originally Posted by Just Not Gettin' It View Post
Patriots defensive line sack from the starters totals from 2003-2008:

2003: 11
2004: 12
2005: 5.5
2006: 12.5
2007: 14
2008: 12

The best 3-4 D-line of the last decade never got over 15 sacks from the starters.
Even the 2005 numbers are better than what we got.
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Old 07-31-2012, 01:07 PM   #970
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Even the 2005 numbers are better than what we got.
Seymour is a HOF level player as a 2 gapping 3-4 DE, who was both tremendous against the run and a legitimate pass rushing threat who could demand double teams. Those are tough to find. What the Chiefs seem to have is a pair of DEs who are much more like Ty Warren than Richard Seymour.
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Old 07-31-2012, 01:14 PM   #971
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Originally Posted by Just Not Gettin' It View Post
Those are tough to find. .
Then don't use your top 5 picks on guys that can't live up to that level of play.
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Old 07-31-2012, 01:17 PM   #972
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Originally Posted by Laz View Post
i didn't say any ol' slapdick can do it.

finding a 3-4 2-gap guy who can sacrifice 1st step penetration to protect the linebackers, occupy 2 Olineman AND THEN still rush the passer is very difficult.

It's about an extreme curve on diminishing returns.

You need an A+ level 3-4 DE can make your defense awesome but anything below an A+ and he is probably going to look like 'just a guy'.

on the other hand ...

At linebacker a B+ player can still make a big improvement

At Safety any grade level of improvement can make your run and pass defense better.

did i explain it any better? get my point?


I just think that unless you see an uber elite guy then you can get in the 2nd/3rd round that isn't going to be much different than the 1st rd guy.


A team could dump 1st round picks into 3-4 DE's every dam year and not see their defense improve a bit until/if they hit on a real stud.

Imo it's more efficient and you get more bang for your buck at other positions in the high rounds.


Where are you coming up with these grades?
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Old 07-31-2012, 01:18 PM   #973
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Originally Posted by Just Not Gettin' It View Post
Seymour is a HOF level player as a 2 gapping 3-4 DE, who was both tremendous against the run and a legitimate pass rushing threat who could demand double teams. Those are tough to find. What the Chiefs seem to have is a pair of DEs who are much more like Ty Warren than Richard Seymour.
no DE we have is even close to Rechard Seymour's talent level
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Old 07-31-2012, 01:25 PM   #974
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Then don't use your top 5 picks on guys that can't live up to that level of play.
JFC, that's just stupid.
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Old 07-31-2012, 01:36 PM   #975
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JFC, that's just stupid.
How so? Top 5 Picks are suppose to be Game Changers. The Eric Berry's of the world.
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